futuresbetting.com

[ffsear]

Absolute nonsense. You can't hedge a £1pp bet in any market that I'm aware of.

That does not mean they are a market maker, Spread bettors still take on postions, no one ever said they hedge every bet, like futures betting do. They take positions on and they hedge their overall positions. There is no need to be hedging every single trade they take.

And you can hedge with another spread bettor at £1pp

 

[ffsear]

OK, let's see the evidence!

ring them up, go down to their office and watch how they work. thats what I did!

 

[ffsear]

If this is the case....

Why was I put on dealer referal within 72 hours of account opening ?

Surely they wouldn't care I was winning because they were quoting me the real market and taking the spread as "their commission" Technically I would not be trading against them so everyones a winner.

Alas this is clearly not the case. I won and they put me on to dealer referal. Why would they do this if they were just quoting the market wrapping 2 points around the price on YM and taking that as their profit ?

I can only assume that this will be due to they way you trade. Are you trading many times a day, opening large positions and holding them for only a few seconds/minutes?..

SB's don't like traders that cause a lot of "noise" on their own position monitors. And if you think about it, if they were markets makers, there would be less of a reason for them to put you on dealer referral, because they could simply adjust their own market to suit them.

 

[Phil Mibbutz]

That does not mean they are a market maker, Spread bettors still take on postions, no one ever said they hedge every bet, like futures betting do. They take positions on and they hedge their overall positions. There is no need to be hedging every single trade they take.

And you can hedge with another spread bettor at £1pp

Here's what you said, ffsear:

Their not market makers, so your getting the direct market price, with their spread wrapped around it. Worldspreads do the same, but for some reason they don't use it as a selling point.

... which seems to state that Worldspreads use the same system as FB. As has been pointed out, that's impossible unless you're trading at the underlying market's lot size. You're not suggesting that WS automatically hedge with another SB company, surely?

 

[pit pony]

Excuse my ignorance but if you "connect direct to the underlying futures market" how is it a spreadbet? (futuresbetting.com)

Futuresbetting.com have a fixed spread that they add to the actual market price.
so you get the market spread say 1/2 a tic then then spread which strts a half a tic then goes down to a 1/4 of a tic after 200 lots traded.So a spread on top of a spread which qualefies as spreadbetting.Very clever whoever thought it up.

 

[TomTom]

Speadbetting has its uses.
But for profitable no nonesence trading with no hasstle use DMA.
Remember SB Firms make there profits when there clients loose.

 

[new_trader]

That's the line spreadbet firms give you. But it's nonsense. If you try and scalp or short term trade using a spreadbet they will NOT let you get away with it. I in fact have proof of this. Worldspreads put me on dealer referal. It's not a myth it happens.

If you take longer term trades spread betting will not be a problem.

If you are DMA a broker doesn't care weather you're in the market for 30 seconds or 30 days. In fact the broker might prefer you being in every 30 secs, all that extra Comm

I am aware of the disadvantages and chicanery with S/B's but there is one thing I simply can't understand - How do they know how long you intend to hold a position when you open it? I just don't understand what you mean by "If you try and scalp or short term trade using a spreadbet they will NOT let you get away with it." So I enter a trade and it immediately goes in my favour 3 points are you saying they would prevent me from closing that position until it has retraced to a loss? That has never happened to me, never. In the last year or so whenever I have put a trade on with a S/B I have my DMA prices available so I know what's what and what's not.

 

[arabianights]

n_t they can monitor your account and make a pretty good guess that if you made 100 trades yesterday you're probably not in it for the long term

 

[new_trader]

n_t they can monitor your account and make a pretty good guess that if you made 100 trades yesterday you're probably not in it for the long term

Ok, that's fair enough. I'm interested in knowing what mechanism they employ to stop you scalping or short term trading. If I was to say S/B is non-professional I would be inundated with abusive replies. So is scalping professional or non-professional?
They other thing that doesn’t make sense is the claim that S/B's don’t like customers winning. So the implication is that only scalpers win!?

I’m confused...

 

[N Rothschild]

SB company's make there money off the spread when they hedge the positions so why would they care if you win or loose...if they want you to loose all the time they wouldn't have any customers to make money on the spread...

 

[rosegarden]

scalping or short term trading

I am aware of the disadvantages and chicanery with S/B's but there is one thing I simply can't understand - How do they know how long you intend to hold a position when you open it? I just don't understand what you mean by "If you try and scalp or short term trade using a spreadbet they will NOT let you get away with it." So I enter a trade and it immediately goes in my favour 3 points are you saying they would prevent me from closing that position until it has retraced to a loss? That has never happened to me, never. In the last year or so whenever I have put a trade on with a S/B I have my DMA prices available so I know what's what and what's not.

We have traded for some time and have found that many times that we are in profit we cannot close our position until we are in a loss situation or very close they are doing this by a delaying system like re quotes until the position is not in our favour, this happens many times some days,these are not always scalping trades we are sure many other members have the same problems at times.

 

[N Rothschild]

my fav is no matter what price you close an in profit position out at..it will move a few points in the split second you hit your mouse

 

[Phil Mibbutz]

SB company's make there money off the spread when they hedge the positions so why would they care if you win or loose...if they want you to loose all the time they wouldn't have any customers to make money on the spread...

They do care, because they don't/can't hedge everything and operate on the principle that most clients will ultimately lose.
re. what they do about short-term traders, see the ODL or CS threads!

 

[new_trader]

I don't S/B much now. I started with S/B but quickly moved to DMA. I have only experienced re-quotes with CMC markets which must be, by far, the absolute WORST S/B company in existence. I have withdrawn all my money and closed that account, good riddance. But, I experienced re-quotes when trying to open trades, so it doesn’t explain the scalping thing.

 

[arabianights]

Ok, that's fair enough. I'm interested in knowing what mechanism they employ to stop you scalping or short term trading. If I was to say S/B is non-professional I would be inundated with abusive replies. So is scalping professional or non-professional?
They other thing that doesn’t make sense is the claim that S/B's don’t like customers winning. So the implication is that only scalpers win!?

I’m confused...

Spread betting companies, at least the decently run ones, only mind about winning scalpers.

There is a bias on this forum because many of the successful traders are scalpers and have seen how spread betting companies treat them...

 

[N Rothschild]

33pages? no thanks

 

[new_trader]

So, is scalping professional or non-professional?

 

[N Rothschild]

why wouldn't it be professional? surely you mean is it good sport or not?

 

[new_trader]

Spread betting companies, at least the decently run ones, only mind about winning scalpers.

There is a bias on this forum because many of the successful traders are scalpers and have seen how spread betting companies treat them...

The impression I get is that there are many full time traders in this forum who trade with S/B companies...so much conflicting and contradictory information going around...

 

[arabianights]

new trader if you tell me what professional means I'll tell you if scalping is professional