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These are two separate trading vehicles, and each has benefits and drawbacks.
Spread betting is tax free, and is carried out via spread betting companies. The spreads are wider as this is where the companies make their profits, among other things.
However, trading using stocks and futures is liable to tax on gains, and is carried out through direct access brokers. The advantage is lower spreads, but you pay a commission on each trade which is where the direct access brokers make their money.
Spread betting is tax free, and is carried out via spread betting companies. The spreads are wider as this is where the companies make their profits, among other things.
However, trading using stocks and futures is liable to tax on gains, and is carried out through direct access brokers. The advantage is lower spreads, but you pay a commission on each trade which is where the direct access brokers make their money.
FTSE Beater
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Hi Destiny
Spreadbetting is better in some area's
HTH
Spreadbetting is better in some area's
- No tax to pay
- No stamp duty or commissions to pay
- Start-up costs are lower. I believe you can start from about £500
HTH
thanks for the quick replies
im still a bit confused though
so having direct access means you have to pay CGT? and on top of that pay commision aswell!?
by the way is Fixed Odds Betting same as spread betting?
and is options the same as futures? im sorry about all the questions, this is all new to me, i didnt know there was so much jargon! and so many types of ways you can trade. i have alot to learn then :|
dont worry i wont be asking too many questions is there any website with all this stuff in it?
im still a bit confused though
so having direct access means you have to pay CGT? and on top of that pay commision aswell!?
by the way is Fixed Odds Betting same as spread betting?
and is options the same as futures? im sorry about all the questions, this is all new to me, i didnt know there was so much jargon! and so many types of ways you can trade. i have alot to learn then :|
dont worry i wont be asking too many questions
is there any website with all this stuff in it?- Messages
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If you have profits in your direct access account then you are liable to pay UK tax, and CGT is just one form of taxation. And you pay commission on every trade. If you are trading UK stocks then you will also need to pay ½% stamp duty. US stocks do not have stamp duty.
Futures and options are both derivatives and are quite separate from each other. They are not for beginners.
The main spread betting companies are Deal4Free, Finspreads, IG Index, Cantor Index, Capital Spreads, etc. Each has their pluses and their minuses. Some need higher minimum account balances than others, some have higher minimum stakes, etc.
Finspreads requires £100 minimum to open an account, and you can 'learn' for 8 weeks in your account before they bring in the stipulation that your trades must be for a minimum of 50p a point. This, I believe, is the lowest entry level for a SB company.
Some of them have demo accounts so that you can mess around on a simulator just to see how you fare with spread betting before you fund your account.
I would suggest that you NEVER open a credit account with a spread betting company, but open a cash account instead. The advantage of a cash account is that you can only lose what is in that account, and that is a great safety net for when you are a newbie starting out. The market is a dangerous place, so protect yourself with a cash account.
Do feel free to ask questions - we all started out where you are now. And when you get to where we are, you too can start answering all the questions! LOL
Futures and options are both derivatives and are quite separate from each other. They are not for beginners.
The main spread betting companies are Deal4Free, Finspreads, IG Index, Cantor Index, Capital Spreads, etc. Each has their pluses and their minuses. Some need higher minimum account balances than others, some have higher minimum stakes, etc.
Finspreads requires £100 minimum to open an account, and you can 'learn' for 8 weeks in your account before they bring in the stipulation that your trades must be for a minimum of 50p a point. This, I believe, is the lowest entry level for a SB company.
Some of them have demo accounts so that you can mess around on a simulator just to see how you fare with spread betting before you fund your account.
I would suggest that you NEVER open a credit account with a spread betting company, but open a cash account instead. The advantage of a cash account is that you can only lose what is in that account, and that is a great safety net for when you are a newbie starting out. The market is a dangerous place, so protect yourself with a cash account.
Do feel free to ask questions - we all started out where you are now. And when you get to where we are, you too can start answering all the questions! LOL
Id hold fire on blowing money if u dont know the difference between spread betting and fixed odds betting!
Fixed odds is a set price on an event occuring that u can back at a bookies i.e man utd 2/1 to win premiership-u bet £1 u would win £3 (£2 plus ur original pound back)
Spread betting is where a quote is offered i.e 38-40 points bolton end up with in the premier league so u can sell at 38, if u think they end up with less and its ur stake times the points they are below-so if they end up with 30 points and u bet £1 a point u end up winning 8 x £1= £8 but if u bought at 40 thinking they would do better than u lose 10 x £1= £10
Hope thats of some use destiny
Fixed odds is a set price on an event occuring that u can back at a bookies i.e man utd 2/1 to win premiership-u bet £1 u would win £3 (£2 plus ur original pound back)
Spread betting is where a quote is offered i.e 38-40 points bolton end up with in the premier league so u can sell at 38, if u think they end up with less and its ur stake times the points they are below-so if they end up with 30 points and u bet £1 a point u end up winning 8 x £1= £8 but if u bought at 40 thinking they would do better than u lose 10 x £1= £10
Hope thats of some use destiny
hi all,
thanks for your quick replies, they are greatly appreciated
maybe some of you should open up a website for giving advice, and charging a monthly fee :cheesy: im sure that will work with all these so called experts confusing people more with so many f**** systems!!
is there any guide i can read to understand how spread betting works, just the fundemantals as opposed to a system used for trading?
ive recently downloaded a 14 day trial of Marketmaker from deal for free, im trying to make virtual trades but cant, anyone have any suggestions on another broker, the system i thought would be much better graphical, instead it looks like a kid has designed it
im in the process of trying to find out which course to buy, ive become much more confused than i started with, i want to purchase a system that has tricks of the trade, loopholes, secrets, patterns i hope you get my drift. ive got suggestions, some1 offered me vinces home study pack for £499 or with the same price a purchase from train4cash. any suggections?
thanks for your quick replies, they are greatly appreciated
maybe some of you should open up a website for giving advice, and charging a monthly fee :cheesy: im sure that will work with all these so called experts confusing people more with so many f**** systems!!
is there any guide i can read to understand how spread betting works, just the fundemantals as opposed to a system used for trading?
ive recently downloaded a 14 day trial of Marketmaker from deal for free, im trying to make virtual trades but cant, anyone have any suggestions on another broker, the system i thought would be much better graphical, instead it looks like a kid has designed it
im in the process of trying to find out which course to buy, ive become much more confused than i started with, i want to purchase a system that has tricks of the trade, loopholes, secrets, patterns i hope you get my drift. ive got suggestions, some1 offered me vinces home study pack for £499 or with the same price a purchase from train4cash. any suggections?
I use IG and frankly am happy with their overall service. I would suggest you download their user guide from the website - its has lots of useful generic info and examples on SB.
Also open a trial account with capitalspreads.com, play around with this for a bit to get a feel for Spread Betting.
All the best!
Also open a trial account with capitalspreads.com, play around with this for a bit to get a feel for Spread Betting.
All the best!
sandpiper
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destiny said:hi all,
thanks for your quick replies, they are greatly appreciated
maybe some of you should open up a website for giving advice, and charging a monthly fee :cheesy: im sure that will work with all these so called experts confusing people more with so many f**** systems!!
is there any guide i can read to understand how spread betting works, just the fundemantals as opposed to a system used for trading?
ive recently downloaded a 14 day trial of Marketmaker from deal for free, im trying to make virtual trades but cant, anyone have any suggestions on another broker, the system i thought would be much better graphical, instead it looks like a kid has designed it
im in the process of trying to find out which course to buy, ive become much more confused than i started with, i want to purchase a system that has tricks of the trade, loopholes, secrets, patterns i hope you get my drift. ive got suggestions, some1 offered me vinces home study pack for £499 or with the same price a purchase from train4cash. any suggections?
destiny,
Apart from the ig index, finspreads, deal4free and capital spreads websites for info on spreadbetting you could also try and get a copy of "Spread Betting To Win" by Jacques Black.
It's probably on the web somewhere in pdf form. You can pick one up new from WHS or Waterstones for £7.00.
Before you go down the "black box" system route touted by so many people (including others on T2W unfortunately) I would suggest you have a look at:
1) www.collective2.com. Many system(s)/signals for sale. I haven't seen one with a decent win ratio or P/L yet. Incidentally, this is what happens when people submit systems for independent verification of results (including slippage and spreads), i.e. something that looks great in backtesting proves to be pants.
2) Have a look on betonmarkets.com. Not a form of trading that I personally like. But, they have quite a neat set-up there with "gurus" who post trades. You used to be able to verify their past performance on there as well.
3) If you are really serious about the "system" route. And believe that someone else may have found the grail then you have to look at "futures truth" magazine/website. They are the only people (I know of anyway) that independently verify trading system results.
Although having said that. I traded a system late 90's that was rated by futures truth that relied on 15 point ranges on the S&P and was very biased to the short side because of put/call ratios at the time. Yep, that worked out well (NOT).
Re: tricks of the trade, secrets, loopholes....
. There really aren't any. There is only stuff you don't know yet. Someone else quoted Theresa Lo on here somewhere where she said that there are are only three patterns:1) Tests
2) Retracements
3) Consolidations/Congestions
and everything is basically an extension of these.
It's quite true.
You could so far worse than read everything that Skimbleshanks, Chartman et all have written on it's various forms on here. Having done that follow their advice and just trade one (yes one) pattern. Get to know it inside out and practise sitting on your hands for the rest of the time (very difficult to do as Skimbleshanks has said).
It's very true that you get out of this what you condition yourself to expect and that generally your success will be proportionate to the amount of effort you are prepared to put in.
If you can get rid of the notion that someone like VS holds the key to a simple and straightforward get rich quick scheme then you have a chance. Otherwise, like many others before you, I'm afraid that you'll be very disappointed.
To be honest, if I didn't want to put the work in myself or I wasn't passionate about this stuff I would find myself a decent CTA/Broker and open a fully managed account.
in responce to peedee,
ive been in the markets for 1 year only, well im a student i mean i was....
started in jan 03, made £25000 by august, ALL IN SHARES. i was only doing this on the side whilst studying and doing a part time job. i was on top of the world, made big plans, was going to do masters etc. i had plans to forget the markets after hitting a profit of £30000 and going back to it when i graduate.
things started to go wrong, i had too much on my plate, i cudnt concentrate on studying part time job and markets. in a nutshell disaster struck and i loss all £25k and £10k on top. fell in debts so much that i couldnt carry on studying, the £10k was borrowed off loan with big ineterest. forced to leave uni and go back to my parents house which i hate became depressed, got counselling, etc got sacked in the job, fell ill for 4 weeks, doctor goes its mental illness gf f**** off, im only talking a month back.
anyway all that i ever dreamed of all gone, it all happened so quick, a loser always resorts to higher stakes. i just couldnt cope with so much going on. anyway as a result i cant eat, neither can i sleep, i take sleeping tablets 3 at a time and they dont work. etc etc
i recived mail through the post, and guess what, it was vince, financial spread betting was all new to me, i saw light at the end of the tunnel, started to dream again etc hope was building, to pay for the course i was going to borrow more from my mum. when i checked on the net i found out he is a bast***. that light faded away. ive been sending emails so many traders, posting messages, checking out websites etc but getting so pissed off, im getting confused. too many difference of opinion, dont know who to trust.
sh*it happens, ive learnt not to live in the future(fantasy) or you will lose reality(present). i dont know what ill do, i got sucked into the what he(vince) said
anyway appreciate your help, thanks for your reply sandpiper. every little helps.
ive been in the markets for 1 year only, well im a student i mean i was....
started in jan 03, made £25000 by august, ALL IN SHARES. i was only doing this on the side whilst studying and doing a part time job. i was on top of the world, made big plans, was going to do masters etc. i had plans to forget the markets after hitting a profit of £30000 and going back to it when i graduate.
things started to go wrong, i had too much on my plate, i cudnt concentrate on studying part time job and markets. in a nutshell disaster struck and i loss all £25k and £10k on top. fell in debts so much that i couldnt carry on studying, the £10k was borrowed off loan with big ineterest. forced to leave uni and go back to my parents house which i hate
became depressed, got counselling, etc got sacked in the job, fell ill for 4 weeks, doctor goes its mental illness gf f**** off, im only talking a month back. anyway all that i ever dreamed of all gone, it all happened so quick, a loser always resorts to higher stakes. i just couldnt cope with so much going on. anyway as a result i cant eat, neither can i sleep, i take sleeping tablets 3 at a time and they dont work. etc etc
i recived mail through the post, and guess what, it was vince, financial spread betting was all new to me, i saw light at the end of the tunnel, started to dream again etc hope was building, to pay for the course i was going to borrow more from my mum. when i checked on the net i found out he is a bast***. that light faded away. ive been sending emails so many traders, posting messages, checking out websites etc but getting so pissed off, im getting confused. too many difference of opinion, dont know who to trust.
sh*it happens, ive learnt not to live in the future(fantasy) or you will lose reality(present). i dont know what ill do, i got sucked into the what he(vince) said
anyway appreciate your help, thanks for your reply sandpiper. every little helps.
Phew Destiny - sounds like you have had one heck of a bad time.
You don't say whether you lost the money trading the markets but if you did then the one positive thing that should have come out of your bad experience is the ABSOLUTE NECESSITY to have good money management ie a few bad trades shouldn't have blown you out of the water . Everybody has bad trades aswell as good but by practicing good money management your trading capital is always intact to trade another day.
The next thing I am going to advise you may come across as sounding patronising but it is not meant to be so please take it as help rather than criticism. It sounds to me as though at this moment in time you are feeling very emotional about your experience and therefore this is not the best time to start to trade the markets again ie the market takes no prisoners and you need to be detached emotionally. By this I mean that at this moment you naturally feel anger, upset and failure at what has happened to you and the natural response is to try and get back what you have lost without a proper trading plan. Believe me I know because I have done it and all that happens is you lose more money and end up getting into an even deeper downward spiral. Please just sit back and first of all come to terms with your loss. Look on it as a very expensive but valuable lesson to learn and if it makes you feel easier look on it as a business expense.
The next thing to do is to find out about money management ie how much to risk on any one trade in relation to your trading capital. It is better to nibble away and take small bites out of the market than it is to go for the big win - the most successful traders do not aim for the big bucks. Finally when you are emotionally ready with a good money management plan then decide on a trading plan. eg if you are going to spread trade decide what you want to trade eg UK Stocks, US Stocks, Commodities, Indexes etc, decide what time scale you want to trade over and then aim for achieving so many points per month which can then be broken down into points per week and even points per day. Plan your Stop Loss & your money management system should then enable you to decide exactly how much money per point you can afford to trade or lose! This is just an example and rather simplistic but you get the gist - you need a plan to trade.
Finally, I notice you talk about Vince Stanzione's trading manual for a few hundred pounds. There is a cheaper spread trading manual at spreadtradingsecrets.com. At the moment it is £67. I do not have it myself but there are some threads on this site (may be under BetonMarkets search) where a couple of people on this site have recommended it as being the much better alternative to Vinces Manual. I believe it does have a section on money management which I think is what you really need to take on board right now.
I hope this hasn't gone on too much but I am trying to help you and advise you not to shoot from the hip but to stand back and learn first before committing any more money to the piranhas out there. I Hope this may have been of some help to you.
Regards
JayKay
You don't say whether you lost the money trading the markets but if you did then the one positive thing that should have come out of your bad experience is the ABSOLUTE NECESSITY to have good money management ie a few bad trades shouldn't have blown you out of the water . Everybody has bad trades aswell as good but by practicing good money management your trading capital is always intact to trade another day.
The next thing I am going to advise you may come across as sounding patronising but it is not meant to be so please take it as help rather than criticism. It sounds to me as though at this moment in time you are feeling very emotional about your experience and therefore this is not the best time to start to trade the markets again ie the market takes no prisoners and you need to be detached emotionally. By this I mean that at this moment you naturally feel anger, upset and failure at what has happened to you and the natural response is to try and get back what you have lost without a proper trading plan. Believe me I know because I have done it and all that happens is you lose more money and end up getting into an even deeper downward spiral. Please just sit back and first of all come to terms with your loss. Look on it as a very expensive but valuable lesson to learn and if it makes you feel easier look on it as a business expense.
The next thing to do is to find out about money management ie how much to risk on any one trade in relation to your trading capital. It is better to nibble away and take small bites out of the market than it is to go for the big win - the most successful traders do not aim for the big bucks. Finally when you are emotionally ready with a good money management plan then decide on a trading plan. eg if you are going to spread trade decide what you want to trade eg UK Stocks, US Stocks, Commodities, Indexes etc, decide what time scale you want to trade over and then aim for achieving so many points per month which can then be broken down into points per week and even points per day. Plan your Stop Loss & your money management system should then enable you to decide exactly how much money per point you can afford to trade or lose! This is just an example and rather simplistic but you get the gist - you need a plan to trade.
Finally, I notice you talk about Vince Stanzione's trading manual for a few hundred pounds. There is a cheaper spread trading manual at spreadtradingsecrets.com. At the moment it is £67. I do not have it myself but there are some threads on this site (may be under BetonMarkets search) where a couple of people on this site have recommended it as being the much better alternative to Vinces Manual. I believe it does have a section on money management which I think is what you really need to take on board right now.
I hope this hasn't gone on too much but I am trying to help you and advise you not to shoot from the hip but to stand back and learn first before committing any more money to the piranhas out there. I Hope this may have been of some help to you.
Regards
JayKay
donaldduke
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Destiny,
You need to to take a break from the market. Do something
else for six months or so. Then try again. If you continue trading
now you will just lose more money and end up destroying yourself.
Trust me i have been where you are.
And remember: "That which does not destroy you will make you
stronger"
You need to to take a break from the market. Do something
else for six months or so. Then try again. If you continue trading
now you will just lose more money and end up destroying yourself.
Trust me i have been where you are.
And remember: "That which does not destroy you will make you
stronger"
Write everything u did in a book and sell it under the title something like "do the complete opposite to this and make a fortune from the stock market"?
Thatll keep u busy for the 6 months, then u come back and trade without the pressure of that big debt
Thatll keep u busy for the 6 months, then u come back and trade without the pressure of that big debt
Destiny
Looking on the bright side, you are not the first and certainly wont be the last to do what you have done! I recommend that you read Jack D Schwager's Stock Market Wizards. I can recall at least one interview in that book with a top trader who lost everything, but his determination to succeed won in the end. Also one of the founders of Pristine.Com starts his book 'Tools and tactics for the Master Day Trader' (a good book if your trading American markets) with a similar tale of woe to yours, but is now a millionaire. Also read any other book on trading psychology that you can get your hands on. I'm sure that there are also many people on T2W who know all about that sinking feeling when a trade has gone horribly wrong (me included, although not for a while now), and just cant believe how foolish they've been. It takes a good while to learn how to trade properly (It's over 4 years since I gave up my job to trade, and over 3 years since I started to daytrade, I am only just starting to feel that I am in control). That's not to say it takes everyone that long, I could be a slow learner! So you need to decide if trading is what you really want to do, and then trade the smallest stake possible (finspreads allow 50p/point, but dont daytrade with a spreadbetting company) until you are comfortable with your system and consistently making money. Hope this helps and good luck.
Looking on the bright side, you are not the first and certainly wont be the last to do what you have done! I recommend that you read Jack D Schwager's Stock Market Wizards. I can recall at least one interview in that book with a top trader who lost everything, but his determination to succeed won in the end. Also one of the founders of Pristine.Com starts his book 'Tools and tactics for the Master Day Trader' (a good book if your trading American markets) with a similar tale of woe to yours, but is now a millionaire. Also read any other book on trading psychology that you can get your hands on. I'm sure that there are also many people on T2W who know all about that sinking feeling when a trade has gone horribly wrong (me included, although not for a while now), and just cant believe how foolish they've been. It takes a good while to learn how to trade properly (It's over 4 years since I gave up my job to trade, and over 3 years since I started to daytrade, I am only just starting to feel that I am in control). That's not to say it takes everyone that long, I could be a slow learner! So you need to decide if trading is what you really want to do, and then trade the smallest stake possible (finspreads allow 50p/point, but dont daytrade with a spreadbetting company) until you are comfortable with your system and consistently making money. Hope this helps and good luck.
