Bush's Visit!

[Mr. Charts]

CKB, good on ya! Well said.
Just remember there are a huge number of people in the UK who are NOT part of the left-liberal/BBC/media noise brigade whose main leitmotiv is jealousy and resentment of the US for being so successful.
We all have the right to express our opinions, CKB, and when you look at the pathetic anti-Bush crowds a few weeks ago, also note that 750,000 people turned out to welcome our rugger team home! Puts it in proportion, doesn't it?
Fact - if it wasn't for the US, this world would be an infinitely WORSE place.

 

[Car Key Boi]

"SH DID have WMD. That is a FTS. But what he did with them, who knows? Maybe he destroyed them, maybe he hid them, maybe he smuggled them over to Syria or whereve"

Please move into the real world ....

Maybe he did.. But blah blah blah

hold it there

according to Brixi, he DID have them. Brixi said there were stockpiles of WMD "unaccounted for"

We know this because we (the west) sold him the stuff when he was our friend and fighting the madd mullahs in Iran and we also counted them post Gulf 1

now what the hell happened to those unaccounted WMDs since Gulf 1, only Saddam and his cronies know

but that is not the point

ALMOST ALL OF CONGRESS INCLUDING THE CLINTONS BELIEVED SH HAD THEM

or do yuo think, like that other dude in regard to those iraq stats, that i pulled all those Dem quotes outta my ass? Google them. They're real

yuo can argue that the claim was WRONG, but not that Bush/Clinton/Gore/Blah actually lied. There's a world of difference

can yuo put aside yuor natural anti-american bias to understand that difference?

DID NOT THINK SO

OWNED!!!

next.

- Car Key Boi,
YES IT'S SUPPOSED TO HURT!/ SCRAAAAAATCH! :cheesy:

 

[Car Key Boi]

CKB, good on ya! Well said.
Just remember there are a huge number of people in the UK who are NOT part of the left-liberal/BBC/media noise brigade whose main leitmotiv is jealousy and resentment of the US for being so successful.
We all have the right to express our opinions, CKB, and when you look at the pathetic anti-Bush crowds a few weeks ago, also note that 750,000 people turned out to welcome our rugger team home! Puts it in proportion, doesn't it?
Fact - if it wasn't for the US, this world would be an infinitely WORSE place.

the CKB salutes yuo sir!!

and yes, i'm fully aware that the majority of Brits are NOT rabid anti-US peacetards

it's only the anti-war crowd who claim that they are the "majority body of opinion"

that's a bunch of crap

for every peacetard who took to the streets in San Fran last March, there were a 100 non-peacetards sitting at home, watching TV, laughing at how ridiculous they assholes looked. And i'm sure it was the same with yuo Brits

- Car Key Boi,
OWNING HIPPIES LIKE NO ONE ELSE CAN/ DIGTBK!!

 

[madasafish]

"yuo can argue that the claim was WRONG, but not that Bush/Clinton/Gore/Blah actually lied. There's a world of difference"

Well then

Turn it the other way.

Where are the MIGs fitted with means of delivering WMD?

And the mobile labs.?



So it's all right to claim something if you believe it's right but it's not, you are arguing.

I believe therefore I am right?



Therefore all your blaspheming rude slandering of people - who believe something you do not - is by your own definition .. wrong..




That's the argument anyone with a cause argues: I'm right, I believe.. so if you disagree then you are wrong..

Makes arguing with you impossible.

Pure sophistry...you are doing the left a great service...

 

[Car Key Boi]

"yuo can argue that the claim was WRONG, but not that Bush/Clinton/Gore/Blah actually lied. There's a world of difference"

Well then

Turn it the other way.

Where are the MIGs fitted with means of delivering WMD?

And the mobile labs.?

turn it this way

WHERE ARE THE WMD'S THAT BLIXI SAID WERE UNACCOUNTED FOR?

i guess yuo're saying that Brixi was lying too? everyone is lying according to yuo, right? Brixi, Bush, Blair, Clinton, Hillary, Gore, and almost the rest of Congress were lying, right?

what about Saddam? don't yuo think it's even possible that HE was lying?

OWNED!!

 

[Car Key Boi]

one more thing

i actually think that liberals are nice well meaning folk. I even married one just the other day - i sh!t yuo not. But although they're well meaning, their "always looking for the moral high ground" gets in the way of their judgement of what is the RIGHT THING TO DO given the circumstances

a case in point. Those assholes in London demanding immediate withdrawal from Iraq with no regard to the consequences if we were to do that

yuo wanna talk about right and wrong?

i've heard all the anti-war arguments and all the "Left/Liberal" opposition is based on either

"genocide and murder are not a problem and are none of our business if they don't threaten us (or UK)"
(that's where yuor argument about Bush/WMD lies is coming from)

"America isn't allowed to do anything right because they did some things wrong in the past like supplying arms to Saddam blah"

"bush ignored international law!!! that is so wrong!!!"

"this is gonna spawn a million terrorists, they're gonna do this, they might do that, i'm as certain of this as i am that Bush allowed 9/11 to happen just to give him an excuse to go to war!

"it's wrong of them to go after SH because they're making no attempt to go after all the other evil dictators! they only picked on SH because of the OIL!!!! Of course, if the US did go after Mugabe and the others we'd oppose that too because........just because OKAY!!"

but when yuo cut through all the BS, the FACT THAT SUX is that we stopped an evil dictator and his even more evil sons from slaughtering his own people (and possibly folk from other countries, we'll never know now) for decades to come

KNOW THIS

Saddam was like a Terminator

no conscience, yuo can't reason with it, it kills and rules, that's all it does. NOTHING would have stopped him from slaughtering 100's of 1,000's in the future, not sanctions, not diplomacy, not international law, NOTHING except invasion. He would rather his country burn to the ground and every Iraqi man, women and child be exterminated, than relinquish his rule over Iraq

if yuor opposition is based on "one drop of American/British blood is not worth all the lives in that worthless sandpit" then fair enough. I don't agree with that but i understand we're yuo're coming from

but if that is the case, i will say this

yuo're some liberal, pal

- Car Key Boi,
KNOWS THE ISSUES THAT LIBS WANNA IGNORE/ O W N ED!!!/ DNT!

 

[ChartMan]

I agree. We/they didn't need to find WMD. Just a means to an end, either in good faith or mistaken' it matters not . The world and Iraq will be a better place without him. We should have sent all the pacefists to Iraq to do a deal with SH.....

 

[grubs50]

CKB, it is obvious that u think anybody that thinks Saddam never had WMD's at the time of invasion is anti-America in your books...............don't u think that is a bit narrow-minded?. I like the US and i have visited so many times but that doesn't mean i have to agree with their govt's wrong and hypocritical Iraqi policy.
U still haven't answered the question............ 'why the Bush govt haven't applied their 'ethical' foreign policy to all the other despots all over the world like in Uzbekistan, North Korea, China and most of sub-sahara Africa.............or queried his allies in the Gulf or Pakistan about their non-democratic types of 'govt'.
And in case u failed to notice, Saddam had always been a brutal dictator but most western govts still supported him until he invaded Kuwait................D Hallabja massacre which is Bush and Powell's example of Saddam's brutality happened over 10 yrs ago so y now?.........If u can answer all those questions satisfactorily then maybe u will convince a lot of cynics about Bush's good intentions in Iraq.

 

[suggy]

I am getting a little tired of being called a liberal simply for having an independant opinion. Or a eurotard simply for living in an ex-imperial civilisation.
no - I dont hate the US
yes - I do think Bush is stupid
yes - I think the war was based on lies
yes - I think the removal of Saddam was a good thing.

bush did just wanna invade iraq, he just searched for an excuse. he named it in his axis of evil despite there being no link to terrorists (as was first claimed) and no mention of WMD. He did this months before all this **** came up. peoples memory's are unbelievable short, in fact its almost farcical.

re WMD: wheres the proof? until I see evidence I believe nothing. politicians lying? never . . .

 

[qaza]

CKB, good on ya! Well said.
Just remember there are a huge number of people in the UK who are NOT part of the left-liberal/BBC/media noise brigade whose main leitmotiv is jealousy and resentment of the US for being so successful.
We all have the right to express our opinions, CKB, and when you look at the pathetic anti-Bush crowds a few weeks ago, also note that 750,000 people turned out to welcome our rugger team home! Puts it in proportion, doesn't it?
Fact - if it wasn't for the US, this world would be an infinitely WORSE place.

Mr C

It's unfortunate that a retard like CKB is your cheerleader.

 

[Car Key Boi]

CKB, it is obvious that u think anybody that thinks Saddam never had WMD's at the time of invasion is anti-America in your books.

nope, that is as ridiculous as suggesting that every Muslim is a wacko fundamentalist who is trying to destroy the west

..............don't u think that is a bit narrow-minded?.

that would be narrow-minded, but like i said, i don't believe for a second that everyone who opposed the invasion is anti-american blah

a case in point. Mrs Key Boi

i think some of yuo guys have misunderstood the CKB. I'm not as right wing as yuo might think

CKB=WHITE YANKEE(NYC BORN)/CALI BOI MARRIED TO CARIBBEAN CHICK TARD

hardly the profile of someone who's an all out hard right winger..

I like the US and i have visited so many times but that doesn't mean i have to agree with their govt's wrong and hypocritical Iraqi policy.

i'm not asking yuo to view Bush, Dick & Colon blah as being super worthy human beings who don't lie and cheat just the same as every other goddamn politician. I'm just asking yuo not to oppose something that has brought relief to millions of people who have suffered unspeakable horrors, just because yuo think the "ethics" or the driving force behind our actions may have been a little flaky

U still haven't answered the question............

'why the Bush govt haven't applied their 'ethical' foreign policy to all the other despots all over the world like in Uzbekistan, North Korea, China and most of sub-sahara Africa.............or queried his allies in the Gulf or Pakistan about their non-democratic types of 'govt'.

easy question to answer

the reason why SH was afforded special attention is because he was a loose cannon in a region that is of utmost importance to the well-being of the world. Yup, because of the oil. The world NEEDS that oil, that is a FTS. It's the power source and raw material for almost everything that surrounds us, including the PC that yuo're using to read this post. If Southern Africa was awash with oil, then i dare say that Mugabe would have been top of the list

Saddam may or may not have been a military threat to the west directly, but he sure was a threat to his neighborhood oil dealers. They hated him, and feared him, and they had good reason to do so. Why do ya think the Saudis and Kuwaitis let us park 250,000 troops within their borders?

as for the other dictators around the world, it would be swell if we had the bucks and the resources to go after them all, but we don't. Wasn't this supposed to be the task of the UN to be the world's policemen? what the hell happened then? oh yeah i forgot, the whole concept failed because the French, Germans and Russians opposed the ousting of SH because they were more concerned about the billions that SH owed to them

there is no such thing as the "United" Nations, it's a misnomer. Every nation is in it for their own self interest. And if those self- interests collide, as in this case, then everything goes to hell

yuo mentioned the word "ethic"

there isn't a govt. or country IN THE WORLD that decides foreign policy on "ethics" alone.

can yuo name me one? just ONE?

didn't think so....

if yuo're going to protest every single policy decision by ANY govt. in the world on the grounds that the driving force for that policy is not 100% ethical, then yuo're gonna spend the rest of yuor life as a professional protester. Enjoy

And in case u failed to notice, Saddam had always been a brutal dictator but most western govts still supported him until he invaded Kuwait................D Hallabja massacre which is Bush and Powell's example of Saddam's brutality happened over 10 yrs ago so y now?.........

like i said, we honestly believed that he had the INTENT to either use, or develop, nuclear and other WMD, and if successful, he had the INTENT to use them, especially against his neighbors. I don't even wanna think of the consequences if that asshole had acquired a nuke and the damage he would have done with it. (for one thing, all of us could've kissed bye bye to our stock portfolios)

If u can answer all those questions satisfactorily then maybe u will convince a lot of cynics about Bush's good intentions in Iraq.

i've answered yuor questions as honestly as i can. Yuo're pointing a figure at us and saying "all yuor motives should be as pure as snow". I'm admitting to yuo that they're not. I'm also telling yuo now that we have no intention or desire to stay in Iraq and lord over them forever and forever

these are our honest intentions. We wanna rebuild that place (and i bet we leave it better than what we found it, take those stats for instance), leave some sort of self-rule behind and get the hell out. (and we don't care what kind of self rule, just so long as they don't kill each other and try to fly planes into our buildings)

of course we want the oil to flow again uninterrupted. But here's the thing, we're willing to pay for the damn stuff, we're not planning to steal it. Now if the Iraqi people wise up, and refrain from killing themselves the second we've left, then they have a great chance to make that country rich and great again. But if they screw up like the Bosnians blah, then too bad for them, that's not our fault, we're gonna give them the opportunity to show the world that they can look after themselves and prosper. They may well screw things up, but do yuo wanna deny them the chance?

now, in view of all the above, are yuo gonna turn around to me and say?

"because yuor ethics ain't 100% pure as snow, i'm still opposed to yuor invasion, even thou it removed a murderous dictator who killed 100s of 1,000s and who intended to kill more"

can't YUO see how narrow-minded that is? is that really 'liberal thinking'?

- Car Key Boi,
100% STRAIGHT UP WITH DA TROOF EVEN IF IT SUX/ SHOULD HAVE BEEN POLITICIAN/ LIVES LIKE A LIBERAL BUT ACTS LIKE A CONSERVATIVE COZ LIBS MEAN WELL BUT ONLY MAKE THINGS WORSE / DIGTBK!

 

[oatman]

On the subject of WMD, it is very easy to hide an eggcup size container of bio gear. That's enough to kill 100s of1000s.

 

[grubs50]

CKB, I congratulate u on ur personal conviction but u have only proved that the invasion was carried out for purely selfish motives i.e Oil............and it is staggering that u believe that the UN should be the world's police (r we talking abt the same organisation whose representatives were denied the opportunity of finishing their inspections!) when the US constantly vetoes UN resolutions whenever it doesn't suit their purpose....the US don't even respect their various judicial bodies like the War crimes tribunal.
And finally, don't u find it laughable to still insist that there r WMD's in Iraq when the 'Coalition' inspectors have been in there 4 ages and still haven't found anything remotely significant (apart from a few sound bites 4 the American audience)..........and do u think that 'pathetic' coward that was arrested over d weekend was daft enough not to use them when he was cornered if he had them?

 

[qaza]

On the subject of WMD, it is very easy to hide an eggcup size container of bio gear.

............... good news for Tony and George

 

[suggy]

You claim as your opinion that bush et al thought that SH had the intent to use WMD. I don't think they did. So the invasion of Iraq was based on a pack of lies. That is what people are failing to see. As mentioned before, some memories are failing people. I would have had fewer qualms about the war if they said they were going after him to stabilise the region and bring democracy to Iraq. If the motive was so great, why not use it?

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/al_quaeda_links.html

lest we forget

 

[suggy]

http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/062103A.shtml

 

[madasafish]

WMD?

WMD DEBATE REOPENED

Tony Blair and former UN chief weapons inspector Hans Blix have clashed over Iraq's alleged weapons laboratories.


The Prime Minister said the Coalition's Iraq Survey Group had found "massive evidence" of secret weapons installations in the country.

But Dr Blix described the statement as mere "innuendo".

Mr Blair, without going into detail, told the British Forces Broadcasting Service that the findings were part of an interim report produced by the survey group several months ago.

"It has already found massive evidence of a huge system of clandestine laboratories, workings by scientists, plans to develop long range ballistic missiles", said the leader.

Before the war began, the Government had used Saddam Hussein's alleged weapons of mass destruction as the main reason for going to war in Iraq.

Dr Blix - charged with uncovering Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction before the Gulf conflict began - said the group had failed to produce concrete evidence that the laboratories were working on WMD.

Speaking at the launch of a new independent commission on WMD, he said: "My guess is that there are no weapons of mass destruction left."

Now we have Blix and Blair disagreeing. We KNOW Tony would never lie or mislead us so Blix MUST be wrong. Right?

 

[Car Key Boi]

CKB, I congratulate u on ur personal conviction but u have only proved that the invasion was carried out for purely selfish motives i.e Oil............

are yuo a trader? or are yuo still a student tard still in middle-skool?

i repeat FTS# 987654

EVERY COUNTRY AND EVERY GOVT. IN THE WORLD, PAST AND PRESENT (REPUB/DEM/TORY/LABOR/LIB-DEM/COMMIE/WHATEVER) , DECIDES POLICY, FOR THE MOST PART, OUT OF SELF-INTEREST

can yuo understand that concept? good, INTERNALIZE it. That is the way things are, and always will be

but yuo know something, we Americans do have some ethics. That's why we fought that war with one hand tied behind our backs and spent billions using high-tech weapons coz we wanted the keep casualties (civilian and military) to a minimum (just think if Patton had still been alive and was running the show)

if we were so unethical as yuo think we are, then why don't we simply "do a Saddam" and occupy that country with no intention of giving it back? We could steal all the oil, we could stop all the car bombing blah INSTANTLY by doing exactly what SH did. That is to kill ANYONE we even SUSPECT may be a terrorist or plotting against us blah, INCLUDING their wimmin and children and other members of their family who we know are innocent

it's because we have a degree of ethics that we didn't simply wipe out Baghdad with a single nuke. Same applies to Vietnam and Korea

and if yuo wanna get so high and mighty and question our ethics because of the oil issue, then know this

we're not the only addicts. It's in the WORLD'S INTERESTS, not just ours alone, that oil is flowing freely from the middle-east. YUO, are just as addicted to oil as we are. If yuo wanna take the moral high ground on this issue, then i suggest yuo quit trading, throw away yuor PCs, yuor cars, yuor TV's, yuor coffee makers, the man-made clothes on yuor back, and leave yuor heated home and walk out into the wilderness and live off the land

would yuo ever do that?

DIDN'T THINK SO

and it is staggering that u believe that the UN should be the world's police (r we talking abt the same organisation whose representatives were denied the opportunity of finishing their inspections!) when the US constantly vetoes UN resolutions whenever it doesn't suit their purpose....the US don't even respect their various judicial bodies like the War crimes tribunal.

nope, i don't believe the UN should be the world's police. I think it's a joke organization and like i said, from the get go the name "United Nations" was a misnomer. It will never be united because.......

EVERY COUNTRY AND EVERY GOVT. IN THE WORLD, PAST AND PRESENT (REPUB/DEM/TORY/LABOR/LIB-DEM/COMMIE/WHATEVER) , DECIDES POLICY, FOR THE MOST PART, OUT OF SELF-INTEREST

if it was up to me, i would sh!tcan the UN tomorrow

And finally, don't u find it laughable to still insist that there r WMD's in Iraq when the 'Coalition' inspectors have been in there 4 ages and still haven't found anything remotely significant (apart from a few sound bites 4 the American audience)..........and do u think that 'pathetic' coward that was arrested over d weekend was daft enough not to use them when he was cornered if he had them?

everything i said about Blixi's statement about the "unaccounted WMD's" has gone right over yuor head, right?

i'll spell it out for yuo, YES IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THERE ARE NO WMD'S IN IRAQ AT THIS TIME

YES IT IS POSSIBLE THAT BUSH/GORE/CLINTON/HILLARY/ AND ALMOST THE WHOLE OF CONGRESS WERE WRONG TO CLAIM THAT SH WAS AN IMMEDIATE THREAT TO THE WEST

fine

so what? do yuo think that dentist who's blog i posted is concerned if we were wrong about WMD claims? why don't yuo e-mail him and ask him? i think yuo'll find that him and the majority of the Iraqi people don't give two hoots, they're happy that we invaded, and more importantly, that dentist is in a state of delirium that we are actually spending American taxpayer dollars to rebuild the place AND that we actually intend to give it back to his people. Furthermore, WE INTEND TO PAY FOR FUTURE OIL SUPPLIES so that they have the chance to prosper like Qatar or Dubai etc.

DO YUO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT?

DIDN'T THINK SO

now i've answered all of yuor questions as honestly as i can

now i want yuo to do the same and answer me this. And these questions go out to all the anti-war crowd here

our invasion stopped the slaughter of 100's of 1000' of innocents, maybe millions, THAT IS A FTS. As a LIBERAL, can yuo really justify yuor opposition to that act, that we removed a FASCIST MURDERING DICTATOR? As a LIBERAL, can yuo really justify yuor opposition simply because we were acting partly out of self interest? would yuo really condemn all those people to CERTAIN DEATH because yuo're cynical about our intentions? please, as a LIBERAL, tell me that isn't the state of LIBERAL thought today. If that is the case, wouldn't yuo say that was being "narrow-minded"?

- Car Key Boi,
HEARTBREAKER/ STILL MADD WITH DA LOOT/ SMOKING A CIGARETTE AND SCRAAAAATCHING LIB IDEALS WITH THE SWISSTECH/ OW NED!!! DIGTBK!!

 

[grubs50]

The Iraqis r so happy u invaded them so much so that ur president had to visit d troops clandestinely instead of walking the street to d expected 'adulation' of the 'free' ppl of Iraq.
CKB, i think we should just agree to disagree cos we r just going round in circles...........nothing will change ur belief in the justification of d war and since u can't back ur opinions with solid facts, i don't c u convincing me.

 

[Car Key Boi]

The Iraqis r so happy u invaded them so much so that ur president had to visit d troops clandestinely instead of walking the street to d expected 'adulation' of the 'free' ppl of Iraq.
CKB, i think we should just agree to disagree cos we r just going round in circles...........nothing will change ur belief in the justification of d war and since u can't back ur opinions with solid facts, i don't c u convincing me.

e-mail that Iraqi dentist and ask his opinion if yuo think i'm bullsh!tting about the situation over there

Originally posted by The Car Key Boi
now i've answered all of yuor questions as honestly as i can

now i want yuo to do the same and answer me this. And these questions go out to all the anti-war crowd here

our invasion stopped the slaughter of 100's of 1000' of innocents, maybe millions, THAT IS A FTS. As a LIBERAL, can yuo really justify yuor opposition to that act, that we removed a FASCIST MURDERING DICTATOR? As a LIBERAL, can yuo really justify yuor opposition simply because we were acting partly out of self interest? would yuo really condemn all those people to CERTAIN DEATH because yuo're cynical about our intentions? please, as a LIBERAL, tell me that isn't the state of LIBERAL thought today. If that is the case, wouldn't yuo say that was being "narrow-minded"?

- Car Key Boi,
HEARTBREAKER/ STILL MADD WITH DA LOOT/ SMOKING A CIGARETTE AND SCRAAAAATCHING LIB IDEALS WITH THE SWISSTECH/ OW NED!!! DIGTBK!!