Lord Flashearts Rogue Traders and Watchdog Thread

[Trader333]

I was always under the impression that it was the scammer in the wrong

No one is doubting that and I have tried to help those who are likely to be the recipients where I have seen this happen. The problem really is that they don't want the help and in that case there is little that can be done that would make any difference.


Paul

 

[GammaJammer]

No-one is coming here expecting someone to 'chew their food' for them. We clearly have people on this site that have failed at trading and are looking to make an income from the members here.

....

I think that's EXACTLY what a lot of people want here to be honest. Live calls in chatrooms? what is that if not someone chewing your food for you. This kinda thing is precisely why I don't post trading advice, merely (hopefully) educational stuff about the structure of the market. I think it's utterly irrelevant to you what I personally think is the right trade to have on now. Everyone sees the world slightly differently, everyone has a different attitude to the balance of risk and reward. It's just no-one wants to be told that there's no shortcut to riches. Nic had it spot on. She managed to negotiate those shark infested waters just fine.

You could argue that no-one deserves to fall victim of a nigerian scammer letter but I also personally say that there's is very rarely such a thing as a free lunch and all these people caught out by the scammers had an element of greed to them.

I could be being a bit harsh, but I don't think I'm being THAT harsh. Life's tough. Deal with it.

Peace, out!!

GJ

 

[timsk]

I would of thought trade2win have a "duty of care" to see that any of it's commercial associates are compliant on some very basic level .

Omission or not checking, I would of thought is up there with willful blindness. I mean if their actions or in-actions leave any member open to harm or loss in some capacity, there might be a grounds for a commercial claim.

Hi spinola,
I think there's two distinctions to be made here. The first is between ordinary members who are also vendors as opposed to companies that advertise their products and services in the T2W store. So, for example, if a member purchased the 10 Laws of Risk Management CD set produced by the Online Trading Academy and they never received their CDs, then I would expect T2W to refund their money. However, assuming they did receive the CDs, surely it's not T2W's fault if the member doesn't like them or fails to make (or save) money by implementing the ideas?

The second distinction is between ordinary members who are vendors - but have no formal tie up with T2W. It's this group who are the focus of this thread. They have a vendor badge principally to alert members to the fact that their posts might be plugging their products and services - so beware! Ironically, if we had some sort of scheme along the lines being suggested here and we 'approved' certain vendors based on their trading records, we'd being doing the membership a disservice IMO. I can see it now - PM to Sharky: "I bought the XYZ system from a T2W 'approved' vendor and I lost my money. You'll be hearing from by lawyers." The duty of care that T2W has towards its members is to help and encourage them take responsibility for their own actions, not to wrap them in cotton wool. I struggle to get my head around the idea that if the member doesn't make money (or manages to lose money) then it's not their fault or that of the vendor. No, it's the fault of T2W! Makes no sense to me!
Tim.

 

[Black Swan]

I would of thought trade2win have a "duty of care" to see that any of it's commercial associates are compliant on some very basic level .

Omission or not checking, I would of thought is up there with willful blindness. I mean if their actions or in-actions leave any member open to harm or loss in some capacity, there might be a grounds for a commercial claim.

I assume T2W legal advisor would of given some advice to them in this capacity.

So a legal determination might be worth checking, if it already hasn't been done yet. Especially if complaints to the board are visible about certain commercial vendors perhaps?


just thoughts that pop up.....

These are valid points, can the mods/owner tell us what their legal position is as they must have surely checked before allowing folk to use their facility to offer trading advice? After all lately they are v.eager to redact/withdraw any post that may be considered libelous; Knowledge to action, David Robinson etc..so it's fair to presume they've had advice re this situation...

 

[MrGecko]

If it wasn't for vendors T2W wouldn't be here in the first place.

And T2W doesn't owe anybody d!ck.

 

[spinola]

Cheers tim, and yes I agree in the sense that adults are responsible for their own actions, providing they have the legal definition of the capacity to be so etc, but my take is legally speaking, and responsibility of a commercial enterprise to see it's customers have some sort of duty of care policy, morally - in the sense that it would be sensible pr business practice and help promote positive customer - vendor interaction relationships and experience, but the bigger one is legal responsibility.

That I do not know, but we have a climate now of increasing litigation focusing on internet experiences. Makes sense for any online business and any of it's representatives, to know they are working within current statutory guidelines.

Do all staff / t2w volunteers ,at T2w know where they stand, legally speaking, with their interactions in dealing with members of the public ? Ignorance of the law is not a defence the courts will state.

It's not what you or i think, but what the law states must be done. That's my point . And i do not know the legal position of commercial relationships, duty of care regarding harmed members from receiving solicited services via T2W etc. (or any other website for that matter)

 

[spinola]

If it wasn't for vendors T2W wouldn't be here in the first place.

And T2W doesn't owe anybody d!ck.

yeah but T2W will be liable for any illegal activities or violations of any others legal rights. just like any other business is I expect. So in that sense they owe the public sincere intent to comply with statutory legislation when conducting it's commercial activities.

 

[barjon]

If it wasn't for vendors T2W wouldn't be here in the first place.

ah, wrong MrG, in the first place (ie: when it all started) there were no vendors, just traders experienced and less experienced talking trading. People who were starting out were helped along the way by those who knew their business. As T2W developed with more and more "newbies" it attracted more and more vendor sharks looking to feed. Similarly, many of those "newbies" soon became know-it-alls who poured scorn on those who really knew what they were about (shades of trader333's experience here). More and more all that silenced the experienced traders since there was little point in banging heads against brick walls and just getting bruised in the process.

To some extent T2W is a victim of its own success, but there are still quality threads around and willing traders ready to inform, educate and help.

jon

 

[timsk]

It's not what you or i think, but what the law states must be done. That's my point . And i do not know the legal position of commercial relationships, duty of care regarding harmed members from receiving solicited services via T2W etc. (or any other website for that matter)

Hi again spin',
We're just a medium - a catalyst. The transaction and, therefore, any legal 'argy bargy' will be between the customer and the vendor. If you buy a product / service advertised in a magazine and it's faulty, you wouldn't seek redress from the magazine would you? (Unless it's a promotion in association with the magazine such as 'Radio Times Reader Offers' etc.) If you did - and you were successful - the whole advertising industry would go into meltdown! In the case of members with a vendor badge - there is no contractual relationship between them and T2W - so there's no way that T2W as a company or it's staff could ever be held responsible for any trading losses. In other words, it's a private transaction between the two parties - the vendor and their customer - it's got absolutely nothing to do with T2W.
Tim.

 

[neil]

All this stuff about demanding trading records is nonsense. All that is required is some simple advice to all newbies.
Don't buy any trading system or robot, or join any trading programme or live room that doesn't offer a free trial first (in fairness both 4XTL and schooloftrade that I mentioned previously do that as do Trader_Dante and PozzyP).
Don't send your money or put money in the account of someone that isn't a professional, registered money manager that you can call and speak to, and has a real verified address and publishes verified returns. Even then be aware that past performance is no guarantee of future returns.
Simple

Think "JACKO" at Forexfactory where all hell is breaking loose because silly billies gave him lots of dosh to trade.
To be fair Jacko's method seemed ok but then things moved onto a private forum then-I hadn't read the site for a while- it seemed he got people to give him loads of dosh to trade on their behalf. Feathers are flying, infighting has broken out, and buttocks are twitching since Jacko has appeared un-contactable:whistling

 

[bedsit]

It may be cynical, but why should somebody sell their profitable system. Most likely they would sell you an obsolete system and teach you some basic staff you can find for free. In that case their charges could be justified as they make it easier for lazy traders who can't be bothered to do a bit of research. With some clever marketing (playing on greed) they are winners.

And then there are failed traders who know a bit about trading, but not quite enough to make profit on consistent bases. So they may see an opportunity in making money by 'educating' general public how trading should be done. They can't spend that much on advertising, so they need help from the forum. And some of them are quite successful (not as traders, but more like entrepreneurs).

 

[oildaytrader]

Think "JACKO" at Forexfactory where all hell is breaking loose because silly billies gave him lots of dosh to trade.
To be fair Jacko's method seemed ok but then things moved onto a private forum then-I hadn't read the site for a while- it seemed he got people to give him loads of dosh to trade on their behalf. Feathers are flying, infighting has broken out, and buttocks are twitching since Jacko has appeared un-contactable:whistling

The impression I got was Jacko is Vegas of forex factory admin,the man who scammed for signals and dissapeared,he was associated with James 16 's antiques .THE SCAMMER'S THREAD IS ALWAYS PLACED AT TOP OF SCREEN suggesting a few scammers on FF (freaking fokrus) suggesting they worked for the forum.

 

[4xpipcounter]

My supposition has always been that if you are really good at trading, then there is no need to sell your system. There is no need to put up with those headaches if you are already an excellent trader.
I've always asked, "How many people does anyone know that has bought a system from a vendor, put it in use, and is still a successful trader?" Hardly, without an exception, ones that sell a system do not know how to trade themselves, but they are good salesman. So good-intentioned people are duped into paying for those services.
If someone is a scammer, then there will be inconsistencies in what they do and what they say. There will also be contradictions. I think the thing to do in order to expose them as frauds (provided that is the case) is to confront them one-on-one with facts as it pertains to their fradulent behavior. As an example, I knew Hustlerscreed (Just the name says a lot.) was a king-size fraud, and so I just presented facts over and over to him with regards to all his lies. It has been quite awhile since he has been on this site. Plain and simple, he got exposed. Thus, embarassed.
I didn't read every post in this thread, however, I read a good amount. I don't know anything about fradualent activity with regards to DT ( Did I get the acronym right?). If his activites are fradulent, he will not come to this thread to defend himself. He will hope it all goes away, and everything goes hush. The object is to confront him personally. My supposition is also confront him with facts only--not opinion.
I'm all for having a wholesome site to have good dialogue. I'm also in favor of seeing any fraud fully exposed and ran down the road. I believe LordF has accomplished one thing in getting this thread started, and that is to start dialogues, and possibly make newbies aware of fradulent activity. However, there needs to more offense if they are sent packing.
BTW, if that is not the object, then I stand corrected. I believed that was the ultimate intent, which is the reason for my specific comments.

It may be cynical, but why should somebody sell their profitable system. Most likely they would sell you an obsolete system and teach you some basic staff you can find for free. In that case their charges could be justified as they make it easier for lazy traders who can't be bothered to do a bit of research. With some clever marketing (playing on greed) they are winners.

And then there are failed traders who know a bit about trading, but not quite enough to make profit on consistent bases. So they may see an opportunity in making money by 'educating' general public how trading should be done. They can't spend that much on advertising, so they need help from the forum. And some of them are quite successful (not as traders, but more like entrepreneurs).

 

[bedsit]

My supposition has always been that if you are really good at trading, then there is no need to sell your system. There is no need to put up with those headaches if you are already an excellent trader.
I've always asked, "How many people does anyone know that has bought a system from a vendor, put it in use, and is still a successful trader?" Hardly, without an exception, ones that sell a system do not know how to trade themselves, but they are good salesman. So good-intentioned people are duped into paying for those services.

Most of them employ professional salesmen who are there to sell you the system.

 

[Splitlink]

Behaving as a simple suite of forums I agree, however, if T2W is deriving commercial revenue from hosting (and de-facto recommending) trading rooms then no, that's not OK. Let's not forget that if T2W charge for a room, then they're indirectly charging the T2W member also. That being the case they have an absolute responsibility; legally, morally and ethically to vouch for the service..

Would you say that the press should do the same thing? I wonder how many banks and Financial institutions advertised in the months before the crisis. I know that I, as a Brit abroad, have written to some. Online banking pushing credit cards with attractive conditions have all used sites for advertising.

This is a can of worms.

 

[4xpipcounter]

It all comes down to over-hype, under-produce.
Everything would be a complete different story if the beguilers had to be personally acountable for their actions. This includes the press, the news media, etc, etc.

Would you say that the press should do the same thing? I wonder how many banks and Financial institutions advertised in the months before the crisis. I know that I, as a Brit abroad, have written to some. Online banking pushing credit cards with attractive conditions have all used sites for advertising.

This is a can of worms.

 

[4xpipcounter]

This is a private message by someone who has never posted on this site. Good example of a spammer and scammer. They have to do it in secret. The name is MaximumProfit. He will get a private message from me, and it won't be to invite him to my Christmas party. I hope the mods read this and run him out of town:


"Explore 20-40% Profit Strategy In Gold & British Pond. CHECK FREE

Nobody can deny 2+2=4 you will see same level of truth in this message.

PhD level scientific probability can make higher profits 20-40% with lower risk in gold.

We never predict market; we apply PhD level formula on both directions of market.

We don’t believe any type of technical and fundamentals. We follow 100% fixed logic formula.

Traders who predict market cannot be successful for long term. We avoid predictions.

Our specialty is to control risk factor in case of loss trades. Probability calculation makes us expert.

In bad scenario like 10 trades are negative and 3 are positive, still we make money.

We are extremely against martingale and anti martingale type of money management.

Our strategy is proved and authentic since 1994. We maintain 20-40% profits each month.

Last three years performance is available. You can also test us live daily monthly and yearly.

With risk money of $3000; we earn averagely $1000 per month. No risk forever after 3-5 months.

Forex & stock losers are especially welcomed for quick and safe recovery.

Our old clients have withdrawn their principal invested money. Now enjoying re-profits regularly.

Very simply first check FREE then decides, you will not be disappointed.

Start today and get extremely wonderful career in international gold financial market.

For any type of your questions and concerns; please don’t hesitate to contact us.

 

[Lightning McQueen]

on the case

 

[megamuel]

How about having like a voluntary section for vendors to show their performance via something like https://www.myfxbook.com/ If they are any good it will show in their results and be a great form of advertising for them. Sharky could even pay some programmers to design something like that specifically for this site. Vendor league.

 

[DionysusToast]

Hi spinola,
I think there's two distinctions to be made here. The first is between ordinary members who are also vendors as opposed to companies that advertise their products and services in the T2W store. So, for example, if a member purchased the 10 Laws of Risk Management CD set produced by the Online Trading Academy and they never received their CDs, then I would expect T2W to refund their money. However, assuming they did receive the CDs, surely it's not T2W's fault if the member doesn't like them or fails to make (or save) money by implementing the ideas?

The second distinction is between ordinary members who are vendors - but have no formal tie up with T2W. It's this group who are the focus of this thread. They have a vendor badge principally to alert members to the fact that their posts might be plugging their products and services - so beware! Ironically, if we had some sort of scheme along the lines being suggested here and we 'approved' certain vendors based on their trading records, we'd being doing the membership a disservice IMO. I can see it now - PM to Sharky: "I bought the XYZ system from a T2W 'approved' vendor and I lost my money. You'll be hearing from by lawyers." The duty of care that T2W has towards its members is to help and encourage them take responsibility for their own actions, not to wrap them in cotton wool. I struggle to get my head around the idea that if the member doesn't make money (or manages to lose money) then it's not their fault or that of the vendor. No, it's the fault of T2W! Makes no sense to me!
Tim.

LOL @ "Wrap in cotton wool". You don't need to wrap anyone in cotton wool. You just need to make this a less friendly place for con-men. Right now this place is con-o-rama.

Level 1 of vendor - we know you are selling stuff & there is no evidence at all you can make money trading.
Level 2 of vendor - account statements have been posted here... (link) - we cannot verify the accuracy of these statements
Level 3 of vendor - live calls have been made here... (link) - we cannot verify the accuracy of these calls
Level 4 of vendor - mates with admin, we'll let them get away with blue murder

Allow no more than 90 days at level 1 after which point - ban them outgright.

Now - if those links are forum posts, I can GUARANTEE you that not many con men will survive an attempt to post fictitious statements or calls.

Don't wrap the members in cotton wool - wrap the vendors in barb wire.

You don't need to approve vendors - the membership will do that.