Would Usain Bolt start losing races if he gave away his edge?

DionysusToast

Legendary member
5,963 1,499
Serious question.

If Usain started to teach other runners his techniques, would he be giving away his edge?

Let's say Usain went to an amateur athletics meet where there were a bunch of 'young bucks' - non-competitive runners, who were keen to join the competitive circuit....

Let's say he took a few of those guys under his wing, gave them some training & technique tips. Would we then expect Usains edge to disappear as it became public?

Would we expect them all to reach the same level?
Would we expect them all to improve?
Would we expect them all to reach Usains level?

Is running all technique & no skill?

How does this differ when it comes to training traders?
 

Shakone

Senior member
2,458 665
No. Because it's not his technique that allows him to win. It's first and foremost his natural ability, and his potential is reached by combining this with some training.

It differs hugely in comparison to trading. There is nothing stopping a trader buying the absolute low or selling at the absolute high and profiting to a great degree, and being the best trader on a given day. Nothing stopping them making the best trades ever except themselves. In fact you could even add to losers and profit hugely on a given day. But trading isn't about one day or one event, so it's a pretty poor comparison to a 10 second race. There is a lot that stops most from being able to run 100m in 9.6 seconds. Physical limits for a start. And no amount of training can change this.


Back to your questions. With regard to whether he will lose his edge. Yes and no. he'll still be brilliant for a long time I imagine, but once a new target is set, or people see what can be done, then inevitably people will do it. You can think of the 4 minute mile for a better example, of what people thought was so hard to do, but once done, lots could do it. Even in 100m, look atthe times of his closest competitor, conpared with times of champions from the past.

If he gave some coaching, then maybe yes some others owuld improve. but they won't reach usain's level unless they have the natural ability and therefore don't have the physical limits.

Are you training traders yet?

Now if you're talking about trading as a mental pursuit, and therefore mental limits. Then yes. I think those exist. Especially amongst vendors.
 

DionysusToast

Legendary member
5,963 1,499
I'm just interested in the discussion, I'm not sure which camp you fall into but there seem to be a few different ways people look at trading and of course this is shown in how they discuss trainers.

Usain Bolt didn't get where he was by running a single 10 second race. Just like traders, he's had to perform well and consistently for years to get where he is.

If trading was a mechanical endeavour where you could implement a set of 'secret' rules and make money forever, then the 'edge erosion' argument is quite valid. In fact, a lot of trainers are selling 'secret' solutions to 'resolve' the trading 'problem'.

We often hear people say stuff like "I can't say any more without revealing my edge". Again, implying that the edge can by telling people what it is. Such an edge would be impacted catastrophically by sharing it because you'd have people all clambering to get in at the same spot.
 

Shakone

Senior member
2,458 665
It's a mental/cognitive activity. usain ran a lot races, some people did a lot of homework on a subject, but only some can run that fast, and only some can go on to get an A at GCSE, and less an A at A-level and even less a 1st class degree level, and even less a PhD level and so on. it streamlines as you get to the top. Yes there are mental limits as I said.

People are reluctant to reveal their edge, perhaps for the reason you mention, but also because why should they? If it's a valuable edge, it took years. Why give it freely to a bunch of idiots on the net who won't even value it. And then there's the fact that even if you wanted to, you can't really give it all, because a large part is experiential.

But still. Why give your hard work away, unless it's not that valuable? You can try to prise my edge from my cold dead fingers thankyou very much,
 

DionysusToast

Legendary member
5,963 1,499
I guess it depends, Shak..

If your edge comes from something that you discovered yourself, that you suspect no-one else on the planet knows, then I agree - you shouldn't share it.

If that is true though - could there not come a time where that uncommon edge disappeared and you'd be back to square one in your trading?

If you look at prop shops - the way many of those guys trade is hardly a secret. Seems those people are quite happy to share their edges and it is also true that most of their traders fail because the edge is nothing secret, it just needs someone with the right skills as you say.

Not that this has to be all or nothing - there can be both skill based and more objective edges out there.
 

NVP

Legendary member
37,584 2,008
Serious question.

If Usain started to teach other runners his techniques, would he be giving away his edge?

Let's say Usain went to an amateur athletics meet where there were a bunch of 'young bucks' - non-competitive runners, who were keen to join the competitive circuit....

Let's say he took a few of those guys under his wing, gave them some training & technique tips. Would we then expect Usains edge to disappear as it became public?

Would we expect them all to reach the same level?
Would we expect them all to improve?
Would we expect them all to reach Usains level?

Is running all technique & no skill?

How does this differ when it comes to training traders?

but D .....hes already Won .......:cool:

now if he is keen to become even more famous and wealthy he does exactly what you are suggesting .............and enshrines his Legend and greatness forever...

N
 

barjon

Legendary member
10,612 1,751
Serious question.

If Usain started to teach other runners his techniques, would he be giving away his edge?

Let's say Usain went to an amateur athletics meet where there were a bunch of 'young bucks' - non-competitive runners, who were keen to join the competitive circuit....

Let's say he took a few of those guys under his wing, gave them some training & technique tips. Would we then expect Usains edge to disappear as it became public?

Would we expect them all to reach the same level?
Would we expect them all to improve?
Would we expect them all to reach Usains level?

Is running all technique & no skill?

How does this differ when it comes to training traders?

If Usain found a young buck with the same innate ability and physical and mental make up as he has then training them in his technique, physical and mental preparation methods would likely bring them to his level thus removing his edge. It's very unlikely that he would find a Usain "clone" though. Most of the top guys train together since they derive more benefit from testing themselves against each other than any worry about disclosing any edge.

In trading, if there is some part of someone's technique which would suffer in effectiveness if it became common usage then disclosing it might be risky - stop placement technique leading to stop hunting might be an example. Generally, though, I don't believe there are any wonderful "secrets" to be had.
 

bbmac

Veteren member
3,584 787
Probably the essential difference between aspiring athletes and aspiring traders is that the former have natural ability (clearly natural speed in the case of 100m runners,) whereas aspiring traders may not have the 'natural' attributes required to be a successful trader - even if they or indeed anyone knew categorically what such attributes were (this is always subjective.) The corollary of this is that almost anyone thinks they can become a trader whereas if you can't get close to 10 seconds (naturally without enhancing it thru training) then it is unlikley that any amount of training could make you 'competitive' in that pursuit.

It is partly because there is no categorically proven list of attributes that are required to be a successful trader that it is difficult for most to become successul traders, but I am more convinced that certain individuals are more naturally inclined to have such (whatever they are) and they and others may be more receptive to learning them (being trained,) than others.

I would be inclined to say that 100m runners are more natural ability than technique whereas traders are probably more technique/training than natural ability although there are the known outliersto this generalistation - ie supposedly natural born traders that fit into the group discussed in the paragaraph above (Tudor Jones, Buffet etc...)

As for whether one makes known their trading edge on an open forum or other pace - gratis - for me it is about intellectual property, the cost of acquiring it, and it's resultant value in delivering a consistent gain from the market. It is a business asset and as such needs to be protected and not devalued by giving it away.

G/L
 
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the hare

Senior member
2,949 1,283
I dont know much about running but I'd assume certain individuals have physiological characteristics that give them a natural edge. 99.99% of the population wont have those characteristics, so despite training, motivation, belief etc they simply wont be able to achieve the highest levels.

For those who do have the right psychical characteristics, I would assume that they all have access to similar information regarding diet, training, psychology etc, but they all approach the implementation of those things slightly differently, and what works for one, may not be the optimum solution for someone else. I think what I'm saying is that unless someone is an exact Usain Bolt clone in every respect, physically and mentally the edge cannot be passed on.

I'm sure Mr Bolt could improve peoples performance, but there would no doubt be coaches of far less ability who could probably achieve similar results (a point most vendors will seize on no doubt)

I suppose this is where the similarities to trading start.

I think before any meaningful discussion can take place you have to set out a clear definition of what "training traders" actually means, and what the definition of success would be. You could teach someone to use a trading platform, you could teach someone technical analysis, you could teach people quantitative techniques, you could educate people about various instruments, contract types etc, you could teach people about money management, staking plans etc. All of that constitutes "training", but its got anything whatsoever to do with making money.

If youre a prop shop, you could teach a bunch of people a method, and take a "feed the stars and starve the dogs" approach and probably do OK, and some of the individuals involved may well do well

Other than the 2 cases above I can see no other reason to teach anyone anything
 

piggybridges

Established member
632 200
I don't think he could teach his 'edge' - His edge is him. Big, tall, powerful, lean physique, bursting with fast-twitch muscle fibres, built to sprint. Genetics.
 
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