Why Darwinex is not growing?

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Why Darwinex is not growing?


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CavaliereVerde

Experienced member
1,306 1,689
Poll about Darwinex stagnation.
It is bit of everything probably but I am curious about our opinion about what could be the main reason.
 
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IlIlIlIlI

Well-known member
309 282
Go to the hall of fame - which is more a cemetry hall meanwhile - and look how much the traders made in the last 6 months.
You can do the same with the top 10 invested.
No nice surprise ..
IMO other Darwins are not found as long as they don't appear in a predefined filter.
I don't know whether investors see DarwinIA meanwhile, but there is more stuff for a due diligence on Darwins than in the hero lists.
To grow also means that the (temporary) losses of traders and investors must be covered first before growth can be visible.
 

CavaliereVerde

Experienced member
1,306 1,689
Maybe but that was happening also 1 , 2 and 3 years ago.
"Lack of alpha" is going strong so I have a question.
Darwinex growth was 3x in 2017.
->https://www.darwinex.com/about
Was there more true alpha in 2017 than in 2020 ?
Lack of alpha is the main problem of social trading but I think the average quality of traders (and investors) hasn't changed so much in 3 years.

I think "lack of true alpha " is more the answer to the question "Why investors aren't make money?"
 
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IlIlIlIlI

Well-known member
309 282
Maybe but that was happening also 1 , 2 and 3 years ago.
"Lack of alpha" is going strong so I have a question.
Darwinex growth was 3x in 2017.
Was there more true alpha in 2017 than in 2020 ?
Lack of alpha is the main problem of social trading but I think the average quality of traders (and investors) hasn't changed so much in 3 years.
I think it more a lack of profit.
I assume in 2017 there were more profitable Darwins in the top lists and filters.
In my ears that alpha stuff is for dogs to fight against each other to be number one, but a competion is not a fight.

If the big investment amounts would show real profit, Darwinex would grow without needing fresh money to survive.
Investors stay in Darwins like LVS to lose money since October 2019.
THA had its ATH in September last year, SYO also, and HFD a year ago.
ERQ seems to be a positive exception.
And so on .. just read the trader's income of the last 6 months of the heroes in the hall of fame or top investor filter.

Go to the 1 year performance and compare it with the 1 year DD or max. DD shown. 1 year is a long period for a big investment if it is not profitable.
Most high invested Darwins have a 1 digit 1 year performance, a higher 1 year DD and a 2 digit max. DD.
Why should that be attractive for investors? Telling them this is alpha? ;)
 
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CavaliereVerde

Experienced member
1,306 1,689
You confuse alpha with past return.
If alpha is for dogs we can call it edge, edge vs past luck. :)
The amount of visible past return is more or less always the same.
Also the amount of complaints and disappointment of investors.
Here we have outsidethebox blaming and teasing the visible heroes of 2018.
->https://community.darwinex.com/t/top-20-aum-monitoring/3560/45
Always the same discussions...
 
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FXforfun

Member
54 76
I think it's all about alpha. Money brings more money, talent more talent.
Past growth was because of a promise of a new model, new paradigm, a promise which made sense but lately faded
 

IlIlIlIlI

Well-known member
309 282
A nice guy, his comments mostly were funny ... but mostly not for him ;)

Seriously:
The point is the time horizon when an investor wants to see profit.
Darwinex - and others - have to learn some facts:
- as long as you can't live from fees and prizes from social trading, real professional traders will keep out (and they have other reasons for that). There are some private traders who can live from social trading, for sure in cheaper countries, but the market is open for good traders to take them away from social trading platforms.
- investors come to make money and not to invest and wait a year and maybe or probably make some money after a year or get the full DD
- social trading traders are far different to employed prop firm traders, that's why they don't work for a prop firm. There are clear and tough rules on profit and loss in prop firms on daily and monthly basis, a 6 month DD would never be accepted but in special situations which don't happen every day.
IMO behaving like a prop firm trader is much closer to having an edge instead of a social trading trading having a strategy or a robot. I don't know whether I could work for a prop firm with my ugly intraday DD like today or whether they would have fired me today because of my Darwin's intraday DD of nearly 4 % ;).
Edit:
If it would be the Darwinex forum we could start a poll how long investors accept to wait in a DD and how much DD they would accept without sorrows.
 
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Gargamel

Active member
244 465
There are plenty of traders who show skill and knowledge during their first year at darwinex and then fade away.I understand some were lucky,but that is not the major reason for fading away.Traders are after quick success and competitive.
It would be more productive if they treated this as a serious,long-term business. Anybody who is not prepared to work consistently and seriously for at least 10 years,is wasting their time here and wasting darwinex infrastructure,basically polluting rankings and misleading investors.
Most investors,including me,lose because they invest into promising darwins who just fade away.
For me this represents lack of alpha,not in the sense of lack of edge,but lack of entrepreneurship spirit.

Also traders and investors(retail) suffer from lack of awareness what is reasonable in terms of Return and Risk.
Here is a good link to study what Hedge-fund industry delivers to their qualified investors on average long-term: https://eurekahedge.com/Indices/IndexView/Eurekahedge/473/Eurekahedge-Hedge-Fund-Index
You can look up for averages of various categories of hedge-funds...

Darwins are calibrated somewhat in terms of Risk like these entities.
Retail investors cannot invest in them and investments are locked,not liquid like here, where retail investor can exit any working day he wants.There you also have entry and exit fees,while here you pay nothing of that sort.
Infrastructure that darwinex offers is good for Retailers.
 

IlIlIlIlI

Well-known member
309 282
I can agree with most of your complete post and thank you for the great link.
Infrastructure that darwinex offers is good for Retailers.
That is the point Darwinex needs to accept. Money will come mainly from (private) persons or private funds and not from institutional investors who have to write reports about their investments.
 

trilobite

Member
54 92
I can agree with most of your complete post and thank you for the great link.

That is the point Darwinex needs to accept. Money will come mainly from (private) persons or private funds and not from institutional investors who have to write reports about their investments.
True, but there are gazillions of $ held by private investors looking for a home. Perhaps they, (Darwinex) should concentrate more on that source of funds. I think the hurdles to learn about what Darwinex actually is are very high, which may also put a lot of potential investors off.
 

CavaliereVerde

Experienced member
1,306 1,689
I agree with your points but I repeat: all of this was true also in 2017 .

For me the correlation si pretty evident:
huge improvement--> huge growth (Reloaded platform in 2017)
no improvements --> no growth (nothingness of 2019 and 2020)
 

IlIlIlIlI

Well-known member
309 282
I agree with your points but I repeat: all of this was true also in 2017 .

For me the correlation si pretty evident:
huge improvement--> huge growth (Reloaded platform in 2017)
no improvements --> no growth (nothingness of 2019 and 2020)
The difference was that there were Darwins with high publicity, high AuM and close to a new ATH.
SYO had its best year in 2017, SCS and TMB had only green months. These are Darwins you mentioned in 2017. That means they all made good money in the last 6 months, all with a 2 digit profit for the year.
And 2020? Most top invested Darwins suffer in a DD since months and the performance in 2020 was less than 10 %. Where is the attraction gone?

Necessary improvement for investors are also not planned and never made, you are right on this point.
You can build some filters with past performance/dd/investor data and current investable attributes. Or you run a senseless backtest to cheat yourself. The bad on this kind of backtesting is that you can only find survivors, all others which looked attractive a period ago are sorted out.
That cannot help investors!

It would be necessary to be able to check your filter idea at a moment 3 or 6 months ago to find out whether it worked for the following 3 or 6 months. Then you could calibrate it or define a strategy to sort the losers out in time for making profit. It could be done technically if the attributes and some other data were saved every day after calculation.
 

CavaliereVerde

Experienced member
1,306 1,689
SYO had its best year in 2017, SCS and TMB had only green months. These are Darwins you mentioned in 2017.
hahhah :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
SYO wasn't existing in 2017... darwin creation is in 2018
SCS the same
TMB the same
Darwins created in 2018 could not be attractive in 2017....
 

IlIlIlIlI

Well-known member
309 282
hahhah :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
SYO wasn't existing in 2017... darwin creation is in 2018
SCS the same
TMB the same
Darwins created in 2018 could not be attractive in 2017....
You're right - then let's talk about 2018.
As your link to the old forum is also placed to a post of November 2018. :p
And that shows that they could attract traders with pomising trading accounts in and for 2018.

And today?
 
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CavaliereVerde

Experienced member
1,306 1,689
With more work you will find someone coplaining also because of fallen/disappointing heroes of 2017.
XIN collapsed in 2017 exactly like HFD in 2020 and bestscalper was number one in hall of fame.
Improvements made the difference.
 
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