Whose Site is it Anyway!

the hare

Senior member
2,949 1,283
Some of you who don't post anything subjective , related to the discussion , should be banned by the content manage.

If you read Steve latest post you'd be aware that in principal, t2w staff are to relieved of moderating duties (with one glaring exception)

Are you therefore suggesting that t2w should place the responsibility for vetting user generated content with the content manager ? If so, thats a move that I would join you in supporting. Someone needs to take responsibility for content, the decline in quality over the last 3 years or so has been appalling.

t2w needs some sort of content czar with the power to kick ass, and get things back on track. Perhaps you'd be up for the job ?
 
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15 min tlb

Senior member
2,057 98
Re: Is it true that scalping doesn't work???

If you read Steve latest post you'd be aware that in principal, t2w staff are to relieved of moderating duties (with one glaring exception)

Are you therefore suggesting that t2w should place the responsibility for vetting user generated content with the content manager ? If so, thats a move that I would join you in supporting. Someone needs to take responsibility for content, the decline in quality over the last 3 years or so has been appalling.

t2w needs some sort of content czar with the power to kick ass, and get things back on track. Perhaps you'd be up for the job ?

Every business as well as t2w has to create a niche , which competitors can never replicate , that is what makes a sustainable sound business model.Cheap useless content drives away readers .Good content will attract new members.
 

timsk

Legendary member
7,343 2,135
Re: Is it true that scalping doesn't work???

Hi the hare,
Are you therefore suggesting that t2w should place the responsibility for vetting user generated content with the content manager ? If so, thats a move that I would join you in supporting.
Really? I'm surprised. Surprised because, in this context, 'vetting' means editing and/or deleting. I'd probably delete some of your posts - but not the ones you'd want me to! So, whilst I'd relish the prospect of getting rid of great swathes of what I regard as poor content across T2W, it's probably best that I can't. As you're aware, this is purely a moderation function. Incorporating value judgements about quality is beyond the current scope of the Community Constitution and its application by the Mods. Having a lot of poor content (however one defines that) is the price we pay for having a fair and democratic moderation process. Okay, I imaginre you and a few others may contest that but, even so, don't you think the current practice is better than having one person making subjective judgements about the quality - or lack thereof - of individual posts/threads?

Having said the above, there are two notable exceptions to this: the Trading FAQs and [Best Threads] Stickies. I housekeep these on a rolling two month basis to ensure they stay 'on track' and don't get clogged up with off topic content. This involves deleting perfectly acceptable posts that don't in any way infringe the site guidelines. So far, I've not received any complaints, but, I'm aware that when I do it I'm making value judgements about what's 'good', 'bad', 'on topic' and 'off topic' etc. Before deleting any post, I ask myself the question - would any member benefit from this post and/or find value in it? I try to view it from the perspective of someone who has very different views to my own - e.g. you! So, once a month, I routinely try and get inside your head - not an easy task!
:p

Someone needs to take responsibility for content, the decline in quality over the last 3 years or so has been appalling.
The members are responsible for the content. There's no way (that I know of) of making members post quality content - or stopping them from posting rubbish. Again, my definition of rubbish is likely to be different to yours; one man's meat is another man's poison etc.

t2w needs some sort of content czar with the power to kick ass, and get things back on track. Perhaps you'd be up for the job?
Yeah, I like the idea, but it's contrary to the ethos of the site and, as I've outlined above, difficult to implement in a way that's fair and meets with majority approval. Suppose I or or 15 min tlb was that tzar - would you still want to participate in a forum that reflected our respective views of the markets and what we regard as 'quality content'? I suspect not.
Tim.
 

the hare

Senior member
2,949 1,283
Re: Is it true that scalping doesn't work???

Cheap useless content drives away readers .Good content will attract new members.

I presume that most of the vendor generated content is provided free of charge, so its definitely cheap. I'd also argue that the quality of that content is pretty dire (and even the content management team have admitted that some of those articles fell short of standards)

However, despite the cheap useless content, t2w membership increased. Cheap useless content attracted new members ! The complete opposite of what you are suggesting.

The cheap useless content drove away some quality contributors, and it resulted in others adopting a lulz agenda. New readers don't really need good content, but as their experience grows, they start to notice that the site lacks what they are looking for (the people who used to post that stuff where driven away long ago). It takes 2-3 years before they realize there's nothing really here for them, and they leave too. Over time you find that there's nothing being generated to attract new members, other than vendor generated garbage, and the length of time new members stay before realizing its a barren wasteland keeps on reducing to shorter and shorter periods until the whole thing will implode.
 
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the hare

Senior member
2,949 1,283
Re: Is it true that scalping doesn't work???

Hi the hare,

Really? I'm surprised. Surprised because, in this context, 'vetting' means editing and/or deleting. I'd probably delete some of your posts - but not the ones you'd want me to!

Well, you do have a history of promising to do one thing, and then doing another :p

I don't mind the fact that you'd delete posts if that was the price that needed to be paid to achieve your objectives. If you continually deleted great content, and left complete crap people would soon work out you wanted to promote crap. Conversely if you deleted crap, and left great content, people would understand you wanted great content. Everyone would know where they stood, and they'd post whatever it was you wanted !

So, whilst I'd relish the prospect of getting rid of great swathes of what I regard as poor content across T2W, it's probably best that I can't. As you're aware, this is purely a moderation function. Incorporating value judgements about quality is beyond the current scope of the Community Constitution and its application by the Mods. Having a lot of poor content (however one defines that) is the price we pay for having a fair and democratic moderation process. Okay, I imaginre you and a few others may contest that but, even so, don't you think the current practice is better than having one person making subjective judgements about the quality - or lack thereof - of individual posts/threads?

You are allowed to change the constitution :LOL: t2w management wrote it, its not act of parliament !

I think the fact that you don't have a single person (or entity) making subjective judgements is exactly why you are in the current position. It's a lack of leadership really, a lack of leading by example, and precisely what you'd expect when there's no genuine interest in what the sites about. It's just a bunch of guys doing a job without much passion

The members are responsible for the content. There's no way (that I know of) of making members post quality content - or stopping them from posting rubbish. Again, my definition of rubbish is likely to be different to yours; one man's meat is another man's poison etc.

That old chestnut. I'd argue that the site sets the tone, quality of its own communication with members, quality of articles it promotes, its moderation policy etc.

The thing is though Tim, its YOUR site, it not mine. You have to provide what YOUR members want, and I suspect you would not want 250,000 members like me.

If it was MY site, Id be getting medieval on people's asses, and I'd be leading by some kind of example, showing what's acceptable, and what's not.

Yeah, I like the idea, but it's contrary to the ethos of the site and, as I've outlined above, difficult to implement in a way that's fair and meets with majority approval. Suppose I or or 15 min tlb was that tzar - would you still want to participate in a forum that reflected our respective views of the markets and what we regard as 'quality content'? I suspect not.
Tim.

You suspect correctly, but its not about me, its about what your members want. If 250,000 people want el cids deranged ranting, then I'm sure you'd have a viable business. If 250,000 people want your thing, then great.

If you decide you want to be a forum for new traders, and dumb everything down then you should go for it. If you want to be a trading forum, then go for it. If you build it, they will come.
 

timsk

Legendary member
7,343 2,135
Re: Is it true that scalping doesn't work???

Hi the hare,
I won't go through each of your comments as we've both made our points - so we'll have to agree to disagree on some issues. However, there's one I can't let go as it encapsulates why our views are seemingly so polarised . . .
The thing is though Tim, its YOUR site, it not mine. You have to provide what YOUR members want, and I suspect you would not want 250,000 members like me.

If it was MY site, Id be getting medieval on people's asses, and I'd be leading by some kind of example, showing what's acceptable, and what's not.
This is totally ar$e about face! You (and anyone else who subscribes to this view) needs to do a 360 in your thinking. It's not 'MY' site at all - or barjon's, or Trader333's, or Steve's or anyone else on 'this' side of the fence. If there was just us and no members - there'd be no site - ours or anyone else's! The success of any democratic community such as this is dictated by the commitment of its members to the community's goals. It's for - and about - the members, not the tiny minority of people who administer it. Not only is T2W very much YOUR site but, as one of its more active contributors, the burden of responsibility to make it into an industry beacon (I know how much you love that phrase, lol) - rests every bit as much on your shoulders as it does on mine.
Tim.
 
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the hare

Senior member
2,949 1,283
Re: Is it true that scalping doesn't work???

Hi the hare,
I won't go through each of your comments as we've both made our points - so we'll have to agree to disagree on some issues. However, there's one I can't let go as it encapsulates why our views are seemingly so polarised . . .

This is totally ar$e about face! You (and anyone else who subscribes to this view) needs to do a 360 in your thinking. It's not 'MY' site at all - or barjon's, or Trader333's, or Steve's or anyone else on 'this' side of the fence. If there was just us and no members - there'd be no site - ours or anyone else's! The success of any democratic community such as this is dictated by the commitment of its members to the community's goals. It's for - and about - the members, not the tiny minority of people who administer it. Not only is T2W is very much YOUR site but, as one of its more active contributors, the burden of responsibility to make it into an industry beacon (I know how much you love that phrase, lol) - rests every bit as much on your shoulders as it does on mine.
Tim.

I am stunned !

Is that actually official t2w policy ?
 

Shakone

Senior member
2,458 665
Re: Is it true that scalping doesn't work???

Hi the hare,
I won't go through each of your comments as we've both made our points - so we'll have to agree to disagree on some issues. However, there's one I can't let go as it encapsulates why our views are seemingly so polarised . . .

This is totally ar$e about face! You (and anyone else who subscribes to this view) needs to do a 360 in your thinking. It's not 'MY' site at all - or barjon's, or Trader333's, or Steve's or anyone else on 'this' side of the fence. If there was just us and no members - there'd be no site - ours or anyone else's! The success of any democratic community such as this is dictated by the commitment of its members to the community's goals. It's for - and about - the members, not the tiny minority of people who administer it. Not only is T2W is very much YOUR site but, as one of its more active contributors, the burden of responsibility to make it into an industry beacon (I know how much you love that phrase, lol) - rests every bit as much on your shoulders as it does on mine.
Tim.

Is it really a democratic community?

Also, the burden rests with the owner of the site and any employees more than any of us.

Edit: Also you might want to change the thread title before the grammar police see it.
 
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timsk

Legendary member
7,343 2,135
Re: Is it true that scalping doesn't work???

I am stunned !

Is that actually official t2w policy ?

Well, I'm stunned that you're stunned - if you really are. England wouldn't be England without the English, Scotland wouldn't be Scotland without the Scottish, Wales wouldn't be Wales without the Welsh and Ireland wouldn't be Ireland without the Irish etc, etc. If no one lived in those countries, there would be nothing to administer. Governments come and go, but the communities themselves live on. Surely this is obvious and doesn't need to be written up as official policy?
:LOL:
Tim.
 

timsk

Legendary member
7,343 2,135
Re: Is it true that scalping doesn't work???

Hi Shakone,
Is it really a democratic community?
Yes.

Also, the burden rests with the owner of the site and any employees more than any of us.
That depends upon which burdens you're referring to! To administer the site in accordance with its stated aims - to which all members agree to when they first join - then yes, I agree. Other than that, it's YOUR site and the collective responsibility or burden - call it what you will - to make it into the best it can be rests with the majority of members - of which you are one - not the minority of administrators. It's about all of you - not us!

Edit: Also you might want to change the thread title before the grammar police see it.
:LOL:
Tim.
 

the hare

Senior member
2,949 1,283
Re: Is it true that scalping doesn't work???

Hi Shakone,

Yes.


That depends upon which burdens you're referring to! To administer the site in accordance with its stated aims - to which all members agree to when they first join - then yes, I agree. Other than that, it's YOUR site and the collective responsibility or burden - call it what you will - to make it into the best it can be rests with the majority of members - of which you are one - not the minority of administrators. It's about all of you - not us!


:LOL:
Tim.

So now I've inherited a thread that I didn't start ! How democratic is that ?

Who exactly created these aims ? the members ? Or someone else ?

And who changes the aims, constitution, moderation policy etc, the members ? Or someone else ?

And how are the profits divided ? (or maybe my cheques got lost in the post ?)

And who decides what content gets published ? The members ?

And who decides who gets to advertise ? The members ?

And who gets to do due diligence on partner firms ? The members ?

Who gets to decide which of my posts get deleted ? The members ?

Who gets to decide whose banned ? The members ?

Are you getting the point yet or do I really need to go on with more examples ?

How can you argue there's a democracy when no one gets to decide on the simplest of things ?
 

BeginnerJoe

Senior member
3,329 350
Re: Is it true that scalping doesn't work???

Is it really a democratic community?

That would be quite a disaster as we know the 99.5% majority always do the wrong thing and loose. The remaining 0.5% are probably vendors and spammers.
 

barjon

Legendary member
10,604 1,742
Oh, come on, hare, you're an intelligent man.

It surely is down to T2W to set the aims etc and the framework for civilised debate about trading. Beyond that it is up to the members to participate, or not, in that spirit and to contribute, or not, "quality" content.

It's the easiest thing in the world to continually pick holes, criticise and dig up all the negatives. Even your more supportive posts are generally "don't do this", "stop doing that" type things rather than the "let's see more of this", "this would be good" flavour. Shame really, you've got a lot more to offer than that.
 

the hare

Senior member
2,949 1,283
It surely is down to T2W to set the aims etc and the framework for civilised debate about trading. Beyond that it is up to the members to participate, or not, in that spirit and to contribute, or not, "quality" content.

I am in complete agreement. t2w proposes a bunch of stuff, and anyone who wishes to support them can do so. That's why it's important that t2w actually has some sort of vision about what they want to achieve

It's quite clearly t2w's site, there's no democracy about it.

This is why I ask if this democracy nonsense is t2w official policy, or simply Tim's incorrect interpretation of what he'd like to happen..
 

Lightning McQueen

Moderator
4,916 780
Re: Is it true that scalping doesn't work???

So now I've inherited a thread that I didn't start ! How democratic is that ?

aren't you the lucky one :D

the other week they denied that picking out posts and making a new thread was possible, even though it was suggested as a way of not deleting discussions because of a dodgy post or two, or a dodgy thread (or something like that) :confused:
 
 
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