Ukraine invasion

[counter_violent]

CV,
I suspect you didn't watch that UnHerd interview with the excellent Freddie Sayers that I posted earlier. Do please watch it because, in spite of what you might believe, the Neo-Nazi Azov battalion is a very real issue impacting the conflict in a number of ways (and they're just one of a number of such groups). Although small in number, and their views aren't supported by the vast majority of Ukrainians, their influence on the military and political classes is considerable. If you want to be fair and balanced in your appraisal of the situation, then you have to take them into account. Even Gabriel Gatehouse - an experienced BBC corespondent - did a mini documentary on this for Newsnight a few years ago. (I can dig it out if you'll watch it.) The point being that the Nazi issue really isn't nonsense made up by Putin and those seeking to discredit Zelensky - it's been well known and documented for many years. And the problem for Zelensky is that - for the time being - he wants and needs the Azov soldiers as they're well trained and well armed fighters. However, if he agrees to any Russian demands, then the Azov battalion could easily turn against him - at which point he's not only got Putin after him but, potentially, soldiers from within his own armed forces. He's in a tight spot. Sure, it's complicated and nuanced, but I assure you it absolutely ain't science fiction. Can't comment on the drug addicts - not heard that one before!
Tim.

And a mighty fine job they are doing too.

Fancy them standing up to some jumped up pipsqueak dictator who has grand plans for someone else's country.
When this is over, Putin defeated and territories reclaimed, Zelensky should give Crimea to the Azov supporters and declare it a neutral buffer state so that those fine upstanding Ukrainians can determine their own path and be friends with whoever they like.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

the Neo-Nazi Azov battalion

I studied a decent amount of stuff about Azov battalion.
They are neonazis but they are not running the country.
The battalion was created AFTER the annexation of Crimea by Russia.
If Russia inveded my country I will accept every kind of help.
Speaking about neonazis what do you think about the Wagner group?

Neither Ukraine or Russia will win this war.

No total victory and a disaster for both countries, but at least it will be the end of Putin's regime.

That party is essentially the West.

Everything is a conspiracy of "the West"?
A conspiracy so efficient to force Mr Putin to invade with 200k units??

 

[mdan]

CV,
I suspect you didn't watch that UnHerd interview with the excellent Freddie Sayers that I posted earlier. Do please watch it because, in spite of what you might believe, the Neo-Nazi Azov battalion is a very real issue impacting the conflict in a number of ways (and they're just one of a number of such groups). Although small in number, and their views aren't supported by the vast majority of Ukrainians, their influence on the military and political classes is considerable. If you want to be fair and balanced in your appraisal of the situation, then you have to take them into account. Even Gabriel Gatehouse - an experienced BBC corespondent - did a mini documentary on this for Newsnight a few years ago. (I can dig it out if you'll watch it.) The point being that the Nazi issue really isn't nonsense made up by Putin and those seeking to discredit Zelensky - it's been well known and documented for many years. And the problem for Zelensky is that - for the time being - he wants and needs the Azov soldiers as they're well trained and well armed fighters. However, if he agrees to any Russian demands, then the Azov battalion could easily turn against him - at which point he's not only got Putin after him but, potentially, soldiers from within his own armed forces. He's in a tight spot. Sure, it's complicated and nuanced, but I assure you it absolutely ain't science fiction. Can't comment on the drug addicts - not heard that one before!
Tim.

The UK Column broke the story of the Nazi's in the Ukraine. The Azov Battalion are wearing the proof. Secondly, CD Media has an article also pointing this out. But yet, everyone has the three monkey approach as usual. Don't see, don't hear and don't speak.

White Supremacy Is Not A Problem In The US, It's A Problem In Ukraine - CDM - Human Reporters • Not Machines

I was somewhat taken aback as I have never seen such a display, not even growing up the Deep South during the '60s and 70s.

creativedestructionmedia.com

 

[timsk]

Speaking about neonazis what do you think about the Wagner group?

CV,
I don't think anything about any of these organisations or individuals. All I'm doing is attempting to understand and establish the truth (or as near to it as I can get) about what's really going on. Needless to say, whatever that is, it's a million miles away from what the liberal elite ruling class in the west are telling us. Ditto for Putin - I don't trust him one bit - they're all as bad as each other as far as I'm concerned. Thereafter, I'm looking for a practical, workable and realistic solution that will end the conflict. That's all I'm interested in: that's my agenda.
Tim.

 

[counter_violent]

I'LL BE BACK

https://twitter.com/x/status/1504426844199669762

 

[counter_violent]

The Ukrainian people will decide their future. Not Putin's Russia.

Ukraine's revolution of dignity: The dynamics of Euromaidan

This paper analyzes the civil revolution in Ukraine, which is also known as the Euromaidan Revolution. It is regarded as the Revolution of Dignity by …

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[timsk]

The Ukrainian people will decide their future. Not Putin's Russia.

c_v,
This is how things should be: the objective everyone wants. Except they don't - want it that is. You might want it, I might want it and all the subscribers to this thread want it, too. However, sadly, we're a tiny, tiny minority. The overwhelming majority - the prevailing view is - sadly, that if our national interests are best served by another nation state doing/not doing something, then we will do whatever it takes to make that happen - including going to war. Doesn't matter if the 'we' is the U.S., Russia, U.K., China or anyone else.

At an individual level, exactly the same principle applies. By way of example, some among the triple vaccinated think they have the right to demand that pure bloods like me are also vaccinated in order to protect them! Never mind the fact that transmission and infection are (on average) twice as likely amongst the vaccinated than amongst the unvaxxed. And, sadly, the powers that be agree with their demands, such that restrictions are placed on me and my ilk that negatively impact my life (because I refuse to be vaxxed).

The point being, in case it's not crystal clear, is that the precedent is set at both the national and individual level that a state or person has the right to make demands on another state or individual if they perceive - rightly or wrongly - that their safely is threatened. So, like it or not, (and I don't - not one bit), this now well established metric means that Putin has every right to make the demands that he has regarding Ukraine and to take the action that he has due to their non-compliance. I don't like it, I don't agree with it but, again sadly, that's the reality of the world we live in.
Tim.

 

[Atilla]

They dont' need Nato anymore, EU defense is the future.

OMG - do you seriously believe this nonsense?

Putin wants to take over Ukraine and weaken EU's defence. ROTFLMAO.

 

[counter_violent]

c_v,
This is how things should be: the objective everyone wants. Except they don't - want it that is. You might want it, I might want it and all the subscribers to this thread want it, too. However, sadly, we're a tiny, tiny minority. The overwhelming majority - the prevailing view is - sadly, that if our national interests are best served by another nation state doing/not doing something, then we will do whatever it takes to make that happen - including going to war. Doesn't matter if the 'we' is the U.S., Russia, U.K., China or anyone else.

At an individual level, exactly the same principle applies. By way of example, some among the triple vaccinated think they have the right to demand that pure bloods like me are also vaccinated in order to protect them! Never mind the fact that transmission and infection are (on average) twice as likely amongst the vaccinated than amongst the unvaxxed. And, sadly, the powers that be agree with their demands, such that restrictions are placed on me and my ilk that negatively impact my life (because I refuse to be vaxxed).

The point being, in case it's not crystal clear, is that the precedent is set at both the national and individual level that a state or person has the right to make demands on another state or individual if they perceive - rightly or wrongly - that their safely is threatened. So, like it or not, (and I don't - not one bit), this now well established metric means that Putin has every right to make the demands that he has regarding Ukraine and to take the action that he has due to their non-compliance. I don't like it, I don't agree with it but, again sadly, that's the reality of the world we live in.
Tim.

Putin the dictator who controls the narrative inside Russia has no authority to demand anything. He cannot demand anything of Ukraine. The Ukrainians are on a journey since the collapse of the Soviet Union. There have been bumps in the road and setbacks along the way, but the direction of travel is clear. They are resolute and prepared to fight to the death for their new found freedoms. Also, I've never seen in my lifetime, a more unified global response to the atrocities being committed. Everyone in the free world understands what is at stake here.

Have we not just been through our own battle with the establishment over Brexit. Not only did we defy the EU, we did the same to any and all of the established order in the UK. So much so, that they all ran away from the battle and folded like the Russian army will do.

The Covid and vaccine nonsense has not gone away. It's just been put on the back burner whilst this more pressing issue is resolved.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

OMG - do you seriously believe this nonsense?

YES

Putin wants to take over Ukraine and weaken EU's defence.

...and he is achieving just the opposit, EU is more united and stroger than ever.
I am almost certain that EU defense will be real after this war, no matter how it will end.
EU will be a superpower while Russia will not be a superpower anymore.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

 

[counter_violent]

Ffffin BBC reporter asking stupid questions as usual. Appeaser.

 

[timsk]

Putin the dictator who controls the narrative inside Russia has no authority to demand anything. He cannot demand anything of Ukraine.

Hi c_v,
It appears you've either overlooked and/or not understood the point I was making. Ordinarily, I'm not one to brag but, IMO, it's a really important one. Perhaps I didn't explain it clearly enough, so . . .

I/you no longer have sovereignty over our own bodies; others can dictate what's injected into them. The same principle applies to the nation state. E.g. the U.K. and U.S. can invade Iraq in order to protect their respective national interests and the Saudi's can bomb Yemen to protect theirs etc. Ergo, if they can do that - regardless of the rights or wrongs of the situation - and, at an individual level, others can demand that I'm injected with what I regard as poison potentially injurious to my health then, by the same token, Putin has the right to invade Ukraine. That you don't like him and think his reasons for doing so are total bollox completely misses the point. That's irrelevant. It's a matter of principle, one which must apply equally to one and all, be they individuals or nation states. (Note emphasis.) It's simply not acceptable to say that it's alright when we do it (because we're the good guys) and unacceptable when he does it (because he's evil scum). That's hypocrisy.

If you stick to the line you're taking (that I've quoted), then you must be consistent and accept that the invasion of Iraq was wrong, ditto for Yemen and that every wo/man has sovereignty over their own bodies and the right to decline vaccines without sanctions being imposed against them. If you accept this then you must further accept that this is the minority view not subscribed to by the vast majority of people. Ergo, Putin can invade Ukraine if his justification for doing so is to protect Russian interests.
Tim.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Defending Kuwait in the fist war in Iraq was right while invading Iraq in the second war was very wrong.
After 9/11 the world allowed US to do everything as revenge and US brainwashed people blaming Iraq that had nothing to to with the events of 9/11.
We were brainwashed with the new concept of war to terrorism and pre emptive war, all that stuff is BS.

 

[tomorton]

Defending Kuwait in the fist war in Iraq was right while invading Iraq in the second war was very wrong.
After 9/11 the world allowed US to do everything as revenge and US brainwashed people blaming Iraq that had nothing to to with the events of 9/11.
We were brainwashed with the new concept of war to terrorism and pre emptive war, all that stuff is BS.

I'd love to argue the toss with anyone concerning the basis for the 2003 invasion of Iraq, but this thread should stay focused on Ukraine's woes. I would hate it if arguments I might raise in support of the Coalition's invasion were to be be mistaken for justification of Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

So, when the Ukraine issue is ever settled Iraq could be a decent topic.......

 

[CavaliereVerde]

'Russia sacks one of its own generals' amid stalling Ukraine invasion

General Roman Gavrilov, the deputy chief of Vladimir Putin's Rosgvardia force - or National Guard - was detained amid claims he had 'leaked information'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Atilla]

YES

...and he is achieving just the opposit, EU is more united and stroger than ever.
I am almost certain that EU defense will be real after this war, no matter how it will end.
EU will be a superpower while Russia will not be a superpower anymore.

Russia does not want to take over Ukraine but divide Eastern Ukraine, to protect its fleet and access to the Black Sea. This is a very important matter of defence for her naval fleet.

This is in no way about weakening EU defence. Why do you insist on rephrasing the BIG lie as this being some kind of tactical offence to weaken the EU is beyond me. US actions and embargoes weaken the EU. Loss of energy supplies and raising expenditure on useless military weapons, to be supplied by the US, UK and France.

It is NATO and the US that wishes to weaken Russia's defence by sticking NATO weapons in Ukraine and compromising her naval fleet through militarizing Nazi factions.

I'm afraid the number of nuclear warheads that Russia has, coupled with hypersonic missiles it tested prior to invading Ukraine, clearly demonstrates it will continue to be superpower.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

'm afraid the number of nuclear warheads that Russia has, coupled with hypersonic missiles it tested prior to invading Ukraine, clearly demonstrates it will continue to be superpower.

I think you are underestimating the size of the BS Putin has done invading Ukraine....
The world cannot accept a nuclear power using nukes as threat to invade and and expand an empire.
Putin regime is doomed.
Russia will be divided and denuclearized.

 

[counter_violent]

Hi c_v,
It appears you've either overlooked and/or not understood the point I was making. Ordinarily, I'm not one to brag but, IMO, it's a really important one. Perhaps I didn't explain it clearly enough, so . . .

I/you no longer have sovereignty over our own bodies; others can dictate what's injected into them. The same principle applies to the nation state. E.g. the U.K. and U.S. can invade Iraq in order to protect their respective national interests and the Saudi's can bomb Yemen to protect theirs etc. Ergo, if they can do that - regardless of the rights or wrongs of the situation - and, at an individual level, others can demand that I'm injected with what I regard as poison potentially injurious to my health then, by the same token, Putin has the right to invade Ukraine. That you don't like him and think his reasons for doing so are total bollox completely misses the point. That's irrelevant. It's a matter of principle, one which must apply equally to one and all, be they individuals or nation states. (Note emphasis.) It's simply not acceptable to say that it's alright when we do it (because we're the good guys) and unacceptable when he does it (because he's evil scum). That's hypocrisy.

If you stick to the line you're taking (that I've quoted), then you must be consistent and accept that the invasion of Iraq was wrong, ditto for Yemen and that every wo/man has sovereignty over their own bodies and the right to decline vaccines without sanctions being imposed against them. If you accept this then you must further accept that this is the minority view not subscribed to by the vast majority of people. Ergo, Putin can invade Ukraine if his justification for doing so is to protect Russian interests.
Tim.

Don't think i'm missing anything Tim.

Posted plenty in the past regarding the Wests useless leaders. Played my part, by law abiding means, in bloodying the noses of politicians who didn't have our country's interests at heart. Signed the Bliar revoke knighthood petition. Made the case on LBC, which was read out by the presenter and put to the guest scientific expert, who failed miserably to rebut the point raised, about natural antibody immunity being superior to vaxx immunity.

I think i'm doing my bit. It's everybody else I worry about.

 

[counter_violent]

I think you are underestimating the size of the BS Putin has done invading Ukraine....
The world cannot accept a nuclear power using nukes as threat to invade and and expand an empire.
Putin regime is doomed.
Russia will be divided and denuclearized.

Well the Putin regime is certainly doomed, but divided and de-nuked is pushing it a bit far !