Ukraine invasion

[Atilla]

NATO finally announced Ukraine membership not happening.

This headline makes it sound like Zelensky is reporting the news and what a reasonable chap he is.

Ukraine will not join Nato, says Zelenskiy, as shelling of Kyiv continues

Ukrainian president’s statement comes as three EU leaders arrive in city to express solidarity amid heavy bombardment

www.theguardian.com

Why it took Russian invasion, despite all the communications and warnings to reach this decision should be asked by you all.

I do not see Russia as the threat here. I see it more as a balancing power.

I fear US likes to think EU needs it's services. When the dust settles and a few years from now as East ascends and the sun sets in the West we will look at these events in a different light.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Taking him out will solve nothing - for the reasons Tom points out. Also, remember the Arab spring and the toppling of those leaders? Creating a power vacuum in Russia is about the most dangerous and irresponsible thing that could happen. Look at Iraq after they got rid of Saddam!

Russia is not an arab country, it is Europe, there will be a coup like with Ciausescu or like the transition from Gorbaciov to Eltsin.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Why it took Russian invasion, despite all the communications and warnings to reach this decision should be asked by you all.

Ukraine in Nato was only an excuse, Putin dreams a Russian empire with a puppet gov in Ukraine, like Belarus.
After this invasion Putin has lost all the international credibility, nobody wants to deal with him anymore.

 

[Atilla]

Ukraine in Nato was only an excuse, Putin dreams a Russian empire with a puppet gov in Ukraine, like Belarus.
After this invasion Putin has lost all the international credibility, nobody wants to deal with him anymore.

Forgive me CavaliereVerde but in your last few posts, you seem to be replying to not what is said or presented but what you think and feel.

There are many people who want to deal with Russia and Putin who currently leads it.

As West shuns Moscow, officials say India eyes more cheap Russian oil

India may take up a Russian offer to buy crude oil and other commodities at a discount, two Indian officials said, in a sign that Delhi wants to keep its key trading partner on board despite Western attempts to isolate Moscow through sanctions.

www.reuters.com

NATO WAS NOT AN EXCUSE! Hate to shout it out but there have been enough meetings and newspaper reports all over the World. In fact, NATO weapons were the MAIN! reason. Redline!

Kremlin says NATO expansion in Ukraine is a 'red line' for Putin

The Kremlin warned on Monday that any expansion of NATO military infrastructure in Ukraine would cross one of President Vladimir Putin's "red lines", and Belarus said it had agreed to take action with Moscow to counter growing NATO activity.

www.reuters.com

That last link is from 2021.


Yes Putin is a dictator but how Russia and China operates and promotes leaders are a whole different kettle of fish. That is for the Russian and Chinese people to deal with imo.

 

[timsk]

Forgive me CavaliereVerde but in your last few posts, you seem to be replying to not what is said or presented but what you think and feel.

I've noticed that too, At'.

CV - you're becoming the master of the non-sequitur. If you have to resort to this in order to avoid addressing the points head on that I, At' and Tom et al make - then that ought to tell you that your argument is, well, not as watertight as it could be! So . . .

Let's be crystal clear here. Two simple binary questions for you - for which a simple 'yes' or 'no' is all that's required:
1) Is it your view that this is Putin's war and that if he was removed (by whatever means) then the war would end?
2) If yes, is it also your view that the best/most likely way to get rid of him would be via a coup or some sort of popular uprising by the Russian people?
Tim.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

1) Is it your view that this is Putin's war and that if he was removed (by whatever means) then the war would end?

YES

2) If yes, is it also your view that the best/most likely way to get rid of him would be via a coup or some sort of popular uprising by the Russian people?

YES

 

[Atilla]

Interesting news out of Russia...

They are suggesting backing the Rouble with gold in trade with other countries, to break West's embargoes and restrictions over international payment systems.

That'll hurt the dollar I reckon.

 

[timsk]

YES

YES

Thank CV for being so candid.


There is little sign that Putin's going to be removed anytime soon and, meanwhile, his forces are closing in on Kiev. Sure, there are some small wins here and there for Ukrainian forces (I'm thinking of the drone video you posted) but, at the end of the day, this is a battle of a cornered mouse against a cat - and we all know how that ends. This then begs the question: do you have a plan B?
Tim.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

 

[CavaliereVerde]

I think Putin has already lost the war.
It was clear from day 3, the plan was to replicate Crimea invasion on bigger scale and blatantly failed.
The anly successful tactical operation was bombing airfiedls on day one but despite it Russia hasn't the control of the sky after 3 weeks.
Hundreds of tanks without fuel because the plan was to occupy Kiev in 3 days.
It is 3 weeks that they are "closing on".
Of course he has a big army but it is not infinite and has to protect the biggest coutry in the world.
The second stronger army ON PAPER, but much worse on the filed, probably because of corruption.
The only thing he can acheive now is Ukraine neutrality, and even if he acheives it his career is at the end.
Maybe he can sell it as a victory for the people but siloviks and oligarchs know that the special operation has been a disaster.

 

[Atilla]

I think this was deliberate and executed to obtain the desired result. Ukraine will enshrine in her constitution to remain neutral outside of NATO.

I do think Putin will be going soon as he is 70+. He will have set the tone for future consequences for Russian bordering nations not to consider joining NATO.

Also, the new body coming in to replace him will smooth out the diplomatic channels to continue as before.

Increasingly, I'm thinking Russian strategy is not to take over the Towns at all but simply control the country as is now with the two break away regions and Crimea under Russian control. Lessons will have been learned. Drones are in. Tanks are out.

Peace looks to be on the horizon and all sides can hopefully reach agreement and implement cease fire soon as.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Ukraine will enshrine in her constitution to remain neutral outside of NATO.

They dont' need Nato anymore, EU defense is the future.

 

[Mumpsimus]

Thank CV for being so candid.


There is little sign that Putin's going to be removed anytime soon and, meanwhile, his forces are closing in on Kiev. Sure, there are some small wins here and there for Ukrainian forces (I'm thinking of the drone video you posted) but, at the end of the day, this is a battle of a cornered mouse against a cat - and we all know how that ends. This then begs the question: do you have a plan B?
Tim.

Regretfully, it would seem to me that there are only two probabilities in the nearer future; the first being that the Russians are able to flatten enough of the Ukraine that the latter have to sue for peace just to stop the destruction, and the second is that the Ukrainians are able to hang on thanks to increasing quantities of weaponry from the West as the Russians run out of steam. If it's the second scenario then it's entirely possible that Pooters will opt for the novichok treatment as it's already quite apparent that he has no qualms about targetting civilians on a massive scale.....the s*** show continues.

 

[timsk]

I think Putin has already lost the war.

CV,
It sounds to me as if you think you have a good handle on how this is conflict is going, i.e. who's 'winning' and who's 'losing'. What's that based on - do you have access to information that the rest of us don't? A rhetorical question, because it can only be based on western propaganda. I fear you're still under the spell of the BBC and their ilk, thinking that you can take everything they say at face value. Big mistake. Huge. Massive! They've lied to us day in and day out for the last two years - what on earth makes you think they're suddenly going to start to live up to their mission statement, tell the truth and inform us of the facts?
Tim.

 

[counter_violent]

Biden's war criminal label for Putin "unforgivable" Kremlin says​

As we just reported, US President Joe Biden called Russian President Vladimir Putin a "war criminal" for the very first time.
According to the TASS news agency, the Kremlin says Biden's comments are "unacceptable and unforgivable rhetoric".

 

[CavaliereVerde]

I have seen many videos about Russians defeats BS tactics and mistakes.
On which facts do you believe Russia is winning there?
In the beginning I thought they were holding their best part, going gently or cheaply, but now after 3 weeks where is this almighty army?

 

[counter_violent]

Anyone thinking there's a peace deal solution is dreaming. Far more likely that the situation escalates as more atrocities occur daily.

Time for some more MSM.

 

[tomorton]

I have seen many videos about Russians defeats BS tactics and mistakes.
On which facts do you believe Russia is winning there?
In the beginning I thought they were holding their best part, going gently or cheaply, but now after 3 weeks where is this almighty army?

Conditions are ripe for cease-fire and peace talks. Russia is winning but at an embarrassingly slow pace and with heavy costs. The mirage of their powerful tank armies and high-tech air force has evaporated.

On the other hand, Ukraine cannot kick them out and NATO isn't going to keep dumping weaponry on Zelensky. In the end he runs out of debt to pay for it because his economy is shattered.

We are 2 weeks away from a partitioned Ukraine.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Just the oppostite, Western countries can provide weapons and cash to Ukraine indefinitelly, in the meantime Russia is pretty close to bankrupt.
Russia is destroying a couple of towns but Ukraine army is getting stronger.

We are 2 months away to the end of Russia as we know.

 

[counter_violent]

Russia can't sustain this invasion.
Little wonder they are now trying to negotiate a settlement and beat a hasty retreat.

Zelensky needs to recognise this and continue on with his efforts.
Ukraine is winning.