Ukraine invasion

CavaliereVerde said:
Yes Putin is invading Ukraine as revenge for the expansion of Nato in 2004.
Happens when you allow a dictator to stay in power for more than 20 years.
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tomorton said:
I didn't think Biden was this well informed. But confrontation with Russia due to NATO expansion has indeed been flagged up for years, yet we still sleepwalked into the Ukraine crisis.
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My open views are that it was a mistake for EU to recognise the brake away region of Croatia from the old Yugoslavia. What followed showed the merciless butchery of the Balkan region. Bosnian Muslims literally got decimated by the Catholic Croats and the Orthodox Christian Serbs. Russians in their blinkered support of the Serbs failed in their approach. After the dust settled, hey presto NATO accepts some of the old Balkan countries.

Here we are again but this time EU makes flirtatious noises to resource-rich Ukraine and NATO lifts up her skirt for Ukraine to enter both parties.

All parties knew, were told and with a catalogue of war history thought it was a great idea.

I would not phrase it as sleepwalked no definitely not. Enough material out there to suggest otherwise. Anything but sleepwalked.
 
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Atilla said:
Sir Rufus,

Would you be kind enough to provide us your sentiments re: the RFM comments about the attack below.

Would your perspective change if the hospital and schools were being used for military purposes?


Russia's Foreign Ministry on Wednesday did not deny the attack but accused Ukrainian "nationalist battalions" of using the hospital to set up firing positions after moving out staff and patients.

Lavrov reiterated the claim on Thursday.


Russians investigating the matter too.

www.themoscowtimes.com

Russia, Ukraine in High-Level Talks After Hospital Attack Sparks Fury - The Moscow Times

The foreign ministers of Russia and Ukraine held their first face-to-face talks Thursday after two weeks of war, amid international outrage over Moscow's bombing of a children's hospital that Kyiv says killed three people, including a young girl.
www.themoscowtimes.com www.themoscowtimes.com

PS. Also a note in that article about cars not to drive up to tanks.
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  1. If the hospital was being used for firing on Russians, the attack probably would be considered part of a plain old, everyday invasion instead of a war crime.
  2. It doesn't appear from inside the hospital that it had any military purpose (see twitter below).
  3. Russia has attacked other medical facilities. https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/10/europe/russia-invasion-ukraine-03-10-intl/index.html
    According to the World Health Organization (WHO), there have been 24 verified attacks on health care facilities in Ukraine so far.
    Click to expand...
  4. My understanding is there was supposed to be a cease-fire to let civilians escape at the time of the attack. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60675599
    Pavlo Kyrylenko, the head of the Donetsk regional administration which includes the port city of Mariupol ... said the attack happened during an agreed ceasefire with the Russian side, according to Interfax Ukraine.
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    If so, the Russians missed the "cease" part -- again.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1501579520633102349
 
The Russian attack on the maternity hospital in Mariupol is emotive but cannot be the deciding factor in whether NATO implements a no-fly zone over Ukraine as Ukraine wants. Tragic as this incident has been, NATO military involvement and the future of Europe cannot be triggered on the basis of one tragedy. Some Ukrainians seem to think it can.

In reality even the BBC seem undecided whether the attack was by rockets, missiles or bombs: they name all three. This makes a huge difference. Rockets are unguided and land where they will. Missiles can be ground-launched and may or may not be guided to a specific target. Bombs likewise may or may not be guided, though they are air-launched only. The report that several explosions occurred in one area does not indicate guided weapons and therefore does not prove targeting and/or intent.

Obviously, a no-fly zone has no immediate impact on ground-launched weaponry. Unless the enforcing aircraft or missile batteries target the launch sites. Bearing in mind these will be Russian-manned and may even be on Russian home soil, such pre-emptive strikes are plainly open war.
 
Atilla said:
www.themoscowtimes.com

Russian Cats Banned from International Shows Over Russia’s Actions in Ukraine - The Moscow Times

The International Cat Federation (FIFE) has banned Russian cats from its shows over Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, the Znak.com news website reported Wednesday. The Federation put up a statement on its website announcing that it has sanctioned all cat owners residing in Russia from exhibiting...
www.themoscowtimes.com www.themoscowtimes.com
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If this doesn't persuade Putin to stop the war, nothing will....
 
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/tb9a4r

Very interesting the first comment:

Brainwashed or not, there is simply nothing to gain from a Russian point of view in not supporting the war and that's the hard truth.

Admitting your own people are comitting atrocities is beyond most people capacity due to propaganda, lack of freedom and knowledge. People have been told these lands and people are part of Russia. They want to believe it, like americans want to believe in the american dream.

They want to believe they are good guys and that Russian people as a whole will be rewarded with more land, ressources and brothers for their support in a best case scenario. And that the threat of an enemy NATO army at their doors goes away.

Because the alternative is to realise the horror. That they aren't free and thay Poutine launched an attack because a former soviet country is now a democratic country at his door. That he is killing their so called brothers for nothing, destroying their lives, culture and history. Even confronted with facts and proofs, they will never take the risk to critic Poutine

Ukraine situation will never matter to most Russian people unless they suffer more from sanctions, from their husbands, sons, fathers dying from the war more than from criticizing the state, be branded a traitor or worse. Those who find the strengh to resist are incredible
 
Looks like quality of Russian military tactics and morale of troops both lower than expected. They seem to lack air cover and ground attack helicopter support, which suggests the level of Ukrainian surface to air missile threat is strong, thanks to western supply efforts. Pity we didn't supply the 2,000 Stinger kits they've now had a year ago.
 
There is news that the Chechen paid troops were used in an attempt to assassinate Zelensky but Russian soldiers informed the Ukrainians of their plans who were then killed or captured. Kadyrov apparently not happy.

This all sounds like spooks playing info/disinfo games to me but who knows.

There is also news that the Russians may use paid fighters from Syria (possibly Chechens again) if the struggle turns into the street house to house fighinting as they have a lot of experience and not many jobs in Syria.

Killings are likely to get much uglier if a cease-fire or peace is not achieved soon.
 
tomorton said:
Looks like quality of Russian military tactics and morale of troops both lower than expected. They seem to lack air cover and ground attack helicopter support, which suggests the level of Ukrainian surface to air missile threat is strong, thanks to western supply efforts. Pity we didn't supply the 2,000 Stinger kits they've now had a year ago.
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Tom,
Reading your posts on this thread I get the distinct impression that you're very knowledgeable about the military. Is this a particular interest - so you've made a point of being well informed about it - or do you have some connection to the armed forces? I ask as I don't recall you ever mentioning this, then again, my memory ain't what it used to be and it wasn't up to much to begin with!
Tim.
 
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