U.s NFP later today

Saying "told ya" doesnt really mean jack when you wernt even trading it, aka having money were your mouth is.

Didn't you leave about a month ago in a strop? Why did you come back, just to post nonsense like this? Please go away again.
 
Saying "told ya" doesnt really mean jack when you wernt even trading it, aka having money were your mouth is.

Yes, you are quite right.

I should be useful posts, like yourself.

as for my spelling and grammar, everyone knows attacking someones spelling is the last refuge of a man who has lost an argument.

Quite right, too - glad to see you can rise above such nonsense...

1.30pm. if you cant get the time right, what hope is there..

errr....

People in glass houses...
 
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Ladies !

:spam:
Put away the handbags and lets get back to constructive comment on trading or set up a new thread

:drunk:
 
LMAO @ "Whisper number"

http://www.whispernumber.com/ - shhhhhhhh - don't tell anyone.

It's just more of the same - the releases, the estimates, the unofficial estimates, the whispers, the nudges, the winks and the tickles.

The whisper number makes certain people think they are 'on-side' and have info not available to the lumpeninvestoriat. In reality, it's all part of the same game - the fully managed pessimism-optimism cycle.

It keeps people trading doesn't it?

:LOL: never heard of that website before, just talking about standard rumours... and fwiw the rumours on these numbers that I hear tend to be about right more than you would expect by chance... they certainly do better than analyst predictions :)
 
:LOL: never heard of that website before, just talking about standard rumours... and fwiw the rumours on these numbers that I hear tend to be about right more than you would expect by chance... they certainly do better than analyst predictions :)

Absolutely - that is their point.

It's like peeling an onion.

The outer layer - the general public gets one set of numbers.
The next layer in - the prop traders gets the 'inside track'.

Now you have given both groups exactly what they want in order to trade. Prop guys need to feel they are trading ahead of the lumpeninvestoriat and so are fed these 'whisper numbers'.

End result - everyone trades, fees are collected and the brokers get just a little fatter.

The whisper number web site is something different entirely - it actually collects 'whisper numbers' from it's members and (I presume it's a pay site) sells them back to them.
 
Re: U.s NFP due out this Friday coming, Fri 7th Dec

Some decent data coming out of the U.s of late with the all importnat and eagerly watched Nfp number etc on Friday. I posted over at ff.com on Dec 4th, the day after the last release on Friday Dec 3rd, as below..

'...By the way, if anyone is offered long odds on a good NFP number in January (ie Decemecer's stats reported in January) with an upward revsion to Friday's number - it won't be worst value bet you'll ever take...win or lose...'

This followed the dissppaointing +39k headline number released on Dec 3rd annd with a good ISM services print today and the very optimistic ADP foreacst of the NFP number coming in at +297k, it will be interseting to see what happens.

If a good headline number is printed with positive private payriolls, manufacturing payrolls, upward revision to last month's +39k headline number and a drop in the un-emp rate from 9.8%, we could see some $ strength on the knee-jerk but I wonder also whether such a scenario might herald the hardening of risk apetite in the overall financial markets with more buying of what are considered (rightly or wrongly) to be riskier assets than/against the U.s. $.

Bernanke also up 1hr after the release, so might be an interesting day ?

As always, ...time will tell.

G/L
 
http://www.tradingfloor.com/posts/j...-monthly-nfp-preview-or-stab-in-the-dark-2386
John J. Hardy, FX Consultant, Saxo Bank

US Nonfarm Payrolls/ Unemployment Rate circus A look at the price curve in the equity markets (weeks without a meaningful correction) and a look at sentiment levels suggests that tomorrow’s US employment report will need to be a blowout indeed to add further layers of froth to this already very tall soufflé of a market.. The interesting thing for us FX mavens is this – what is the market looking for and what is already priced in?

This is always a guessing game, but safe to say that the market is looking for a fairly strong number – probably about halfway between the old payrolls consensus (around 150k) and the ADP (almost 300k). So let’s call baseline expectations 225k. Then we’ll also need confirmation from the household survey – which may not be forthcoming due to the likelihood that during the first phases of any jobs recovery, the participation rate often increases faster than payrolls.

Assuming that the baseline is the correct scenario, it is likely priced in and we might consolidate on the risk front (equities lower) and possibly even on the bond front (rally in bonds). In FX, the situation is trickier. Generally, negative risk appetite has been USD positive over the last couple of years, but the last bout of USD strength rode on the back of improving relative US yields based on strong fundamental data. So either there is no losing scenario for the dollar at all (strong on strong numbers or strong because USD is still relative safe haven), or the USD could consolidate in the shortest term if the market puts a bid in the fixed income market and yield spreads falter.

The picture here is complicated by a struggling Euro as sovereign spreads blew wider today – actually a more important development than tomorrow’s US employment number and the reason that EURUSD was able to take out the 200-day moving average with ease today. Watch out for any further acceleration tomorrow, as again, developments there trump what is still an uncertain US jobs picture regardless of the number tomorrow.
Other scenarios

A negative payroll report (say below +150k) would probably be rather negative for risk and possibly short term negative for the USD, though any weakness could be relatively short lived. If bonds catch a bid as well, the JPY crosses could give traders whiplash once again (by strengthening) in this scenario.

A wildly positive payroll report (at least one prominent bank’s model suggests more than half a million job additions are possible) offers another challenge. That would seem most negative for bonds, which could set off another wave of consolidation lower in the JPY and likely see the USD generally stronger. But would risk celebrate the data or fret the new spike in yields? Risks leaning to the latter after a possible small additional run-up.

The above are a crude attempt at common sense logic. Unfortunately the market doesn’t always cooperate with common sense. We went over our misgivings in investing too much meaning in one month’s data in the first place in this morning’s piece. Our general view is that any USD weakness on the far side of the employment report, almost regardless of the outcome, would likely be short lived and our biggest focus at the moment outside of the currencies is in seeing where interest rates will swing now that bond yields have gotten stuck in a no man’s land (between 3.25% and 3.50% in US 10-year notes).

Bernanke will be out testifying before a Senate panel just an hour after the employment report’s release. It’s your equity rally, Mr. B - how much hot air do you want to keep blowing into this bubble?

Be careful out there. FX volatility is heating up.
 
http://www.forexcrunch.com/non-farm-payrolls-preview-high-hopes/
Courtesy of forexcrunch.com

The last Non-Farm Payrolls report, for November, was terrible. Only 39,000 were added, with weakness in all sectors. The expectations were for a much stronger rise. Weekly unemployment claims were falling, the purchasing managers’ indices were on the rise (including the employment component) and also the ADP was rising.

Why? It’s still hard to tell. An upwards revision of November’s figure is now expected. But November is already old news, and we’re looking at December’s report published on January 7th. Expectations are high once again. First and foremost, weekly unemployment claims, that usually serve as a great indicator, continued improving and even fell below the 400K just before the year’s end. Throughout most of 2010, weekly jobless claims ranged between 430K to 500K.

In November and December, we’ve seen improvement. No one time green shoots, but rather constant improvement. The last figure, 388K, isn’t only under the 400K mark, but also the lowest since July 2008, and so is the 4 week moving average.

Also other figures published recently, such as the Chicago and Philly PMIs, exceeded expectations and showed more economic activity. Even the troubled housing sector showed progress. So, the current consensus stands on a gain of 136,000. A gain of 200,000 won’t be a big surprise for me.

Impact on Forex: Unless we get really terrible news from Europe, or any major, bad unexpected event during the week, the reaction is likely to be “normal”, meaning that a big gain in jobs will boost the dollar, and a small gain will weaken it.

A figure well over 200K is likely boost the dollar, especially against the more vulnerable currencies such as the Euro and the pound. A weak result is due to weaken the dollar, especially against the Japanese yen.
The Canadian dollar will be a tricky play, as Canadian employment figures are released just 90 minutes before the American ones, and they will distort the movements of USD/CAD. The strong Australian dollar is likely to weather a strong jobs report from the US, and make stronger gains on a bad report.

The unemployment rate, will continue to play second fiddle, and is expected to tick down from 9.7% to 9.6%. Only a jump above 10% will weigh on the dollar, and so will a drop to 9.2% or lower. Anything in between will leave the focus on the Non-Farm Payrolls.

In any case, the monthly circus around this event means that trading conditions are far from normal. I highly recommend reading my 5 notes for Non-Farm Payrolls trading.
Good luck!
 
Quite surprised that such a seasoned pro. as yerself is getting all excited re NFP...thought you'd find it a pain tbh.
 
Quite surprised that such a seasoned pro. as yerself is getting all excited re NFP...thought you'd find it a pain tbh.

Lol. With volatility comes potential opportunity. Wouldn't it be great though if we saw a definate reaction like the old days, ie a 300pip move (gbpusd for eg) and no turning back.

G/L
 
By Greg Robb, MarketWatch
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Expectations are mounting that the December job report will be strong given a flurry of positive signals this week, economists said on the eve of the report.

“We’re optimistic we could see a decent number on Friday,” said Chris Low, chief economist at FTN Financial in New York. Economists polled by MarketWatch are now expecting 175,000 nonfarm jobs created in December, up from 143,000 just a few days ago.

The unemployment rate is expected to remain steady at 9.8%. The Labor Department will release the data at 8:30 a.m. Eastern on Friday, and President Barack Obama will comment on the report from a Maryland manufacturing facility later in the day.
Many analysts lifted their estimates for job gains in the month after a record-breaking 297,000 increase in private sector jobs in December reported Wednesday from payroll firm Automatic Data Processing Inc and Macroeconomic Advisers. See ADP report.

For example, FTN’s Low said he doubled his December nonfarm payroll forecast to 200,000 from 100,000 after the ADP report was released. Another factor leading analysts to expect a good job number has been a decline in initial claims for state unemployment insurance. See story on claims. Analysts said the “whisper number” among traders on Wall Street is somewhere north a 200,000 gain in jobs in December.

Not everyone has jumped on the bandwagon. A few economists are expressing skepticism about the ADP data. They note that the payroll data used by ADP goes through a seasonal quirk every December because that is the month that companies purge their payroll records of already laid-off workers.

Goldman Sachs economist Andrew Tilton said he was sticking with his estimate of a 100,000 net gain in payrolls in December. " Most [indicators] still point to a gradual rather than an abrupt labor market acceleration,” Tilton wrote in a note to clients.
Low of FTN Financial credited the compromise in Washington to extend the Bush-era 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for the surge in employment in December.

The ADP surge was concentrated in small and medium-sized businesses. These firms were waiting for the uncertainty over taxes to end before hiring, Low said.
Of course, the ADP report is only on the private sector — the nonfarm payrolls report includes government workers, and the financial woes at the state and local level is expected to weigh on the broader report.

Most of the high-frequency economic indicators have shown steady improvement in recent weeks, leading economists to raise their growth forecasts for the final three months of 2010 and 2011. Economists think that growth accelerated in the fourth quarter to over 3% rate. The data will be released on Jan. 28. Actually, the one fly in the ointment was the November unemployment report, which showed a disappointing 39,000 gain in nonfarm payroll and a spike in the unemployment rate.

Many economists think the November report was an aberration and predict the weakness will be revised away in the strong December data. Robert Brusca, chief economist at FAO Economics, has revised his forecast for December payroll gain to 300,000 from 220,000. “On balance there is not much reason to ignore the super strong labor market signals we are getting. There are a lot of them and they are clustered together,” Brusca said in an email. Joel Naroff, president of Naroff Economic Advisers, has penciled in a increase around 225,000. “The labor market is coming around,” Naroff wrote.

Analysts caution that the excitement over the December job report should be tempered by the reality that the improvement in the labor market from the deep recession is still expected to be extremely slow. There were still 15.1 million persons unemployed in November. That number could rise in the next few months as many job seekers re-enter the labor market.
 
There is potential for this number to dissappoint. If, as in November this number comes in way below forecasts (which have generally been ammended upwards all week leading to the release.) We could see $ coming under pressure on the knee-jerk reaction. Conversely, any print of +200k jobs and similarly positive component parts (private jobs and to some extent manufacturing jobs) and a decrease in the un-emp rate could see some $ strength on the knee-jerk.

My favoured scenario is for a definate reaction on the release and to get involved in any momentum created by the release via the 1 or 5min trigger...Then it would be sell the first hi/buy the first lo and buy/sell respectively, the first pullback from that hi/lo.

Of course there are so many variables not least revions to previous, deviations from forecasts as well as the headline number, component parts and ancillary release, so PA on the release will be king and will guide any trading decisions. I am equally as happy to stay flat should no high probability opportunities/set-ups develop.

G/L
 
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The voice of reason ?

Perhaps the most sober pre-data comment / hype I have read comes from an analyst at saxo bank:

07 January 2011
http://www.tradingfloor.com/posts/mads-koefoed/macro-kickoff-its-nonfarm-day-2389

Macro Kickoff: It's Non farm payrolls day!Mads Koefoed, Macro Strategist, Saxo Bank
It’s Nonfarm day again and what an exciting day it promises to be with the exceptional ADP Employment report out a couple of days ago showing payrolls growth of 297,000.

U.S. labour market to stage a comeback:
The ADP Employment report, which showed 297,000 new payrolls on expectations of 100,000, has further added to risk appetite ahead of today’s labour market report. The ISM Non-manufacturing report did not manage to pour cold water on sentiment, and expectations have been building that the number will surprise to the upside and the consensus forecast has in fact moved higher and higher ever since Wednesday’s ADP report. Especially after reports that at least one large bank expects the net addition to payrolls to exceed half a million.

While the ADP report was impressive, other data releases have been less convincing. The Monster Index, which attempts to measure the amount of job ads on the internet has been declining for several months. Initial jobless claims likewise have not improved materially in December to 420,000 from 441,000 a month before when you look at the week in which the BLS’s nonfarm payrolls survey is conducted.

Similarly, both the ISM Non-manufacturing report, which was released a couple of days ago, does not correlate with the ADP report as it printed 50.5 – down from 52.7 the month before. Therefore it seems likely that the ADP report was a victim of its own methodology, which relies on up-to-date payroll information. We thus expect payrolls to show robust – but not sensational – growth to the tune of 165,000 and a slight decline in the unemployment rate to 9.7%.
 
Pffttt!! You want "sober"?

Ron Paul: "The U.S. Government Must Admit It Is Bankrupt"

Any time you bring the two Pauls together in an interview, and start discussing items such as the debt ceiling, government spending, and monetary policy you know the results will be good. Sure enough, in this rare ABC interview with father and son, the sparks fly, and among the topic touched is the most popular story on Zero Hedge from yesterday, namely President Obama fabulous hypocrisy, who after bashing the debt ceiling as a senator 4 years ago, has bet the outcome of his entire economic policy on maxing out every single credit card available to him. Paul's response: "we have to face the fact that we are bankrupt and we can't pay our bills." Not exactly bedtime material if one's name is Hu Jintao. That said you know the Paul-led interrogation of Bernanke will be something else, even if it is ultimately totally fruitless.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/ron-paul-us-government-must-admit-it-bankrupt
 
and for the purposes of balance my advice (fwiw) in *playing NFP figures* as a retail punter remains steadfast, don't fookin do it, if you're in a swing cool (maybe), if not sit on your hands and wait until after the 13:30 (15 min) candle has 'done it's thing'...The slippage, the bad fills, orders not getting filled, the mess and chaos...none of it sits well for me..

Now watch how I sit on the fence and the new savant kids on the block come back with 200 pip gains in the fifteen mins I suggested sitting it out...LOL...

News Headline Summary

Market talk this morning of a stronger nonfarm payroll report with a whisper number of +320K
http://ransquawk.com/headlines/113495
 
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