Traders International - Feedback from members wanted!

[j0hnth0m]

No, what you don't get is that the people that are being targeted would never think to ask for login access to someone's trading account. Like all good confidence games they know the weaknesses of their marks and are only looking for the small percentages (maybe 1 to 3%) of the those that they pitch to actually commit. It's just human nature. You can call them stupid if that makes you feel better or superior if you like. Bully for you. But there is a con waiting for you just around the corner. Some very smart people with very superior attitudes have been taken for some pretty big rides (just ask any of Madoff's former clients).

What I don't get though, is why are people so S T U P I D as to fall for the BS and the dream?

I've heard of living in hope but it's ridiculous.

If you're so stupid, you deserve to get burnt! It's the only way you'll ever learn.

If anyone, and I mean anyone pushes systems or education or rooms on you, there is only one way to respond..

ASK THEM FOR THEIR BLOODY ACCOUNT STATEMENTS FOR THE LAST 3 MONTHS!!!!!!

I mean, surely you would only want to be educated by someone whom you know to be successful and consistently profitable in their own right, right? Would you want to be educated by a failure?

If the person trying to flog you something is for real (and they won't be) they wouldn't hesitate in forwarding them to you because it would guarantee a sale. DUUUUUH!

If they actually do send you their statements, then next ask them for the investor login details to their account to verify they statements are not fabricated. Tell them to change the password after an hour to protect their privacy (to prevent them using this reason as why they can't give you their login details).

Immediately they start to squirm on either count, tell them they're just another pathetic wannabee scamming BS con artist who should crawl back under their rock and that you hope they die a slow painful death from invasive cancer.

Simple as that.

Dealing with these parasites in any other way is just living in hope on your part.

 

[Pivotal Investing]

Just cause I'm prepared to call it as it is.. foolish, doesn't mean I think I'm superior.

And yes, there might be a con waiting around the corner for me, though if so I expect it will be $100, not $10,000.

I mean really, how could you, as a novice, consider paying up to $10,000 to learn from someone from whom you have no proof that they even know what they're talking about?

It's like letting someone operate on you just cause they said they know how to remove your tonsils.

Absolutely crazy, and sympathising with suckers is not going to do them any
good.

Best to be firm but fair to try and get them to wake up and stop living in hope.

No, what you don't get is that the people that are being targeted would never think to ask for login access to someone's trading account. Like all good confidence games they know the weaknesses of their marks and are only looking for the small percentages (maybe 1 to 3%) of the those that they pitch to actually commit. It's just human nature. You can call them stupid if that makes you feel better or superior if you like. Bully for you. But there is a con waiting for you just around the corner. Some very smart people with very superior attitudes have been taken for some pretty big rides (just ask any of Madoff's former clients).

 

[traderman1]

I am curious about this company. Can someone tell me where they are based, who are the people in charge and who are they linked with.
From what I can see from reading the various links and articles, Siimon Reynolds is in there somewhere and this David Barnett seems to have moved from being a saleman at Traders International to be a new "guru" at this LTG Goldrock.
Also Jamie McIntyre is mentioned.
Who else is involved and who are the main players in these dubious companies

Can someone explain a quick history of where it started and how it developed? And where are all these different guys based?

 

[Pivotal Investing]

Who cares?

All that matters is whether they make money and if they can prove it.

Bottom line: they don't and can't.

Don't waste your time.

I am curious about this company. Can someone tell me where they are based, who are the people in charge and who are they linked with.
From what I can see from reading the various links and articles, Siimon Reynolds is in there somewhere and this David Barnett seems to have moved from being a saleman at Traders International to be a new "guru" at this LTG Goldrock.
Also Jamie McIntyre is mentioned.
Who else is involved and who are the main players in these dubious companies

Can someone explain a quick history of where it started and how it developed? And where are all these different guys based?

 

[anley]

Now hoefully everyone who lost money to this crap will realise an important point re people selling anything to do with the markets and trading -

WORK OUT WHO THE TARGET MARKET IS, ie who is the course marketed to.

If it's the man on the street, the one who probably knows little about the markets yet wants to get get involved then 90% chance it's a scam. And the beauty about the scam as many people here have found out is that they won't know it's a scam until many months (or a year) later, and of course having paid crazy money.

Learn from your mistakes everyone, the trick is always to see who the course/seminar/strategy is marketed to......

 

[Barramundi]

WORK OUT WHO THE TARGET MARKET IS, ie who is the course marketed to.

If it's the man on the street, the one who probably knows little about the markets yet wants to get get involved then 90% chance it's a scam.

So if a legitimate organisation was marketing a legitimate introductory course on trading (such as that offered by Traders International), who would they be marketing it to?

PHDs of finance. Hmmm....I don't think so.

 

[Pivotal Investing]

..not another sucker who persists in living in hope

You want to believe they exist.. legitimate organisations

So if a legitimate organisation was marketing a legitimate introductory course on trading (such as that offered by Traders International), who would they be marketing it to?

PHDs of finance. Hmmm....I don't think so.

 

[Barramundi]

..not another sucker who persists in living in hope

You want to believe they exist.. legitimate organisations

I never said they exist, mate, I just stated that if a legitimate organisation were to be formed, and offer a sound introductory course (I consider the course offered by TI to be introductory only), they're hardly going to be marketing it to full time traders like you and I, are they? We would have no use for it!

 

[anley]

So if a legitimate organisation was marketing a legitimate introductory course on trading (such as that offered by Traders International), who would they be marketing it to?

PHDs of finance. Hmmm....I don't think so.

No, but there are many excellent traders who also teach that don't come up with crappy selling the dream marketing lines such as -

"Are You Looking For A Roadmap to Financial Freedom?"

Just that one line is all anyone needs to know that this company is firstly a marketing firm trying to sell overpriced rubbish to gullible newbies.

So to clear everything up - if the site in question attempts to sell a dream then it's odds on you're dealing with a marketing company who's main business is selling and not trading and therefore most of the punters will stuffed up.

Forget about any 'awards' as a) who isn't an 'award winner' these days and b) most 'awards' are also given by publications where the company is a heavy advertiser. 95% of awards are therefore marketing crap these days.

Summary: 90% of the bad vendors are the ones who are heavily involved in marketing. If you see a site like this it's odds on you're being setup to buy worthless ****. The converse is also true, so if you come across a site that DOESN'T try to sell you the dream, that DOES tell you how hard the markets are and how HARD you've got to work then there's a good chance their products are good. You don't hear much about these people though because as I said above educating is probably not their main business.

If anyone wants to know a couple of good educators then please send me a message.

 

[erickendall]

So True what you've said here. I just finished a live trading webinar with TI. I really have to laugh at the names they give to moving averages to make it sound more complex and technical.

 

[Barramundi]

So True what you've said here. I just finished a live trading webinar with TI. I really have to laugh at the names they give to moving averages to make it sound more complex and technical.

And 'secret', like they have something really special and valuable.

 

[erickendall]

Re: Traders International

I know this is an old thread, but I only recently came in contact with TI and can't believe the rubbish they are peddling. Any company that uses "proprietary" indicators should be avoided at all costs. They do this to try to lock their subscribers in to their system.
All these crap indicators are nothing more than historical price data manipulation. Ie. Lagging indicators such as moving averages, etc. Don't be fooled by fancy sounding names for their indicators. Just remember, all these indicators are only derived from historical price and possibly volume data and have no bearing on the future price movements.

As I mentioned in my previous posting I did not follow Dale Kazan trading room. As you know, Dale’s calls are discretionary and he does not follow mechanical system. If you look at the results there is no 2 point profit, 2 point stop rule. I do not know how you can back test discretionary trading? And talking about TI back testing, you mast remember the new TI indicator - JTI (Just Take It – obviously black box). You must remember what they said about it – “It was back tested for 6 months with fantastic results”. It supposed to be money making machine. All they talked about was how much would they charge members to use it. It did not work. In the first two weeks they have changed it 4 times. Every time TI has changed the way to follow JTI indicator they repeated one statement over and over again: “This was tested for the last 6 months” and after 2 weeks it was taken off the trading rooms. I do not know about TI back testing but I definitely know about curve fitting for black boxes. You can find hundreds of businesses like TI. They make money from new members. They focus very much on signing up new members while the old ones go away from them. I am not complaining, I trade on my own following my on system. I simply try to warn people from making uninformed decision. Think twice before you pay your hard earned money. On the weekly seminar they tell you can easily make $400 a week trading one hour a day, one S&P contract. And if you invest $5000 and trade 5 contract you can easily make $2000 a week. Isn’t that great? $2000 in 5 hours. And it is so easy. Click the button when moderator say “buy” and click the second time when he says “sell”. If that is correct why the hell all of the human beings are not with TI. As I sed I did not meet anyone who is making many consistently using so called “TI methodology” I do not believe there is one. None of the room use 2 point stop 2 point profit method TI teaches in the course. And again this very wrong risk to reward ratio.
So if you have to develop your own trading plan and back test it, why do you pay $7000 for? The divergence method is very well known and you can read about it in any book about trading
I do not want to repeat again what I already said about Rich Malcolm. He even admitted himself that he does not trade, he only makes a calls for you to trade. How can you trust someone like him? I am afraid I have to disagree with you about Traders International.
Anyhow good luck and good trading.

 

[erickendall]

So true Barrumundi, 21st century E minis is another company I came across recently. Their return claims are pretty out there. I lodged a formal complaint with ASIC and passed on their details to Current Affair. Nothing will probably come of it. I also watched a video of "Aussie Rob" and his "Lifestyle Trader". He had probably 150 people in the seminar room and had them all eating out of his hand. The system is simple, buy when this squigly line crosses this other squigly line. So easy. Anyone can make money doing this. I kind of feel sorry for these people, but by the same token, people have to take responsibility for their own actions.

And 'secret', like they have something really special and valuable.

 

[Barramundi]

Re: Traders International

I know this is an old thread, but I only recently came in contact with TI and can't believe the rubbish they are peddling. Any company that uses "proprietary" indicators should be avoided at all costs. They do this to try to lock their subscribers in to their system.
All these crap indicators are nothing more than historical price data manipulation. Ie. Lagging indicators such as moving averages, etc. Don't be fooled by fancy sounding names for their indicators. Just remember, all these indicators are only derived from historical price and possibly volume data and have no bearing on the future price movements.

majster is on the mark with what he said there. I was suckered in at the same time, and like him trade my own system. I learnt pretty early on that there was a better way of doing things, fortunately. I've never been a fan of the MAs. As for their proprietary stochastic and proprietary MACD, you would do just as well with the standard parameters. All that they were trying to keep 'secret' in regard to the parameters for these was that it was sales gimmick. I wouldn't go as far as to say that indicators have no use, but a crucial point is that you need price to confirm what they are 'indicating'.

 

[erickendall]

Re: Traders International

Well said Barramundi, I would tend to agree there

majster is on the mark with what he said there. I was suckered in at the same time, and like him trade my own system. I learnt pretty early on that there was a better way of doing things, fortunately. I've never been a fan of the MAs. As for their proprietary stochastic and proprietary MACD, you would do just as well with the standard parameters. All that they were trying to keep 'secret' in regard to the parameters for these was that it was sales gimmick. I wouldn't go as far as to say that indicators have no use, but a crucial point is that you need price to confirm what they are 'indicating'.

 

[erickendall]

Here's just another little snippet regarding TI. The supposed trading professional or moderator of the live webinar, (who by the way said he traded his own system as well as the TI strategy) told me he had not heard of Larry Williams or Edwards and McGee when asked. Obviously this guy is still wet behind the ears.

 

[robosizer]

I also am an ex TI memeber, I'm lucky I got off for less than 10K. It is a total waste of your time not to mention, your hard earned money. Stay clear of TI you'll be $$$ ahead.

 

[Janiceps]

this is a good room guys
very informative

Informative is good. but bottom line is Are you making good money like they say you will ???

 

[Janiceps]

Re: The Truth About Trading Rooms

Here is the truth about the TI trade room and every other scalping trading room out there. Observing what is going on in the trading room is not sufficient to evaluate whether the signals are profitable - you have to trade the signals on a live account. When you try to actually trade the signals you will find it is impossible to get the same fills as the moderators claim to have gotten. It is as though they buy on the bid / sell on the ask. This will leave you in the position of either accepting a worse price, and hence greater risk and less profit on the trade OR you wait for a retrace which results in you missing some of the winners but ensures you get on all the losers.
I know this is my 1st post in here but I have been trading for over 9 years. I personally did not get suckered into TI however attended a seminar which was enough for me to see Andrew Barnett is a scammer. How do you know Andrew Barnett is lying? His lips are moving! I hung around till the end of the seminar where the hard sell took place and befriended a guy who did part with the 7.5k and signed up. We exchanged business cards we have remained in contact. He put his heart & soul into making TI work for about 6 months. He forked out the extra $300/month to extended his membership to the trade room too. Bottom line is this. YOU WILL BE UNABLE TO REPLICATE THE RESULTS IN THE T.I. TRADING ROOM. It is dubious whether the moderators actually even get the fills they claim to have gotten. If you 'fluff' 1/2 point on the entry and 1/2 point on the exit it's pretty easy to post profitable trading results.

they lowered the price now to ~$3300 and only $150 per month for the trade room. and when i asked them "Can you duplicate the trades exactly as the master trader/moderator is doing, accounting for Slippiage ??" they did NOT answer. they just said all results Vary. :cheesy:

 

[wookie39]

Traders International are only 'analysts' and only 'marketers' who sell indicator-based systems using 'hyped' returns but provide no 'hard evidence' to backup their returns in their trading rooms. They use facebook/twitter to market what other trader’s are saying 'but' they avoid/never talk about their own personal trading - because it does not exist. I personally have asked the hard questions which keep getting ignored. The CEO Afshin, Lachlan Elsworth and staff at Traders International do not all trade what they teach/preach with their own 'personal' money. They ‘collate/use/steal’ ideas/screen shots from their members/other traders who email them screenshots, see what's working at the time, and then come up with systems and they take the credit for it – however Traders International moderators do ‘not’ give back = they don’t send their own screen shots back to their members who initially give to them. Also, Traders International will not ‘coach’ you unless you fork out ‘more’ money to their trading room subscription. The moderators ‘live’ trade using a 'test' account, however, none of them trade with their own personal money on what they teach. Traders International do not 'walk the talk'. Do not believe the hype - ask the two most important questions you can ever ask anyone who makes 'bold' statements about returns and/or tries to sell you a product - Q1. do they actually trade what they preach? Q2. if yes, ask them to show you the evidence of all their trade’s 'screen shots' and their personal 'live account statements' to confirm their ‘so-called’ returns? If they do not show you this – ‘walk away’ and save your hard earned money to learn from someone who actually does walk the talk and can 'show' you the evidence to backup their 'hyped' returns! I have been trading for ‘five’ years my own personal signal/system which is only ‘price action’ based – with ‘no’ indicators because all indicators ‘lag’. Stay away from trading education companies who try to sell you a trading system with ‘indicators’. All indicators ‘lag’ and there is ‘no’ consistency in profit returns over the ‘long term’ when trading off indicators – I know this because I have been backtesting for ‘five’ years trying all sorts of indicators. ‘Price action’ alone is ‘king’ – when you know how to read price action ‘only’ – then you will start to trade successfully and will ‘never’ need to use any indicators again! Stay ‘away’ from Traders International – their explanation of trading methodologies are ‘not’ consistent as individual moderators ‘nor’ between each other = this is usually first sign of people not walking the talk themselves when they change the rules/methodology specifics and ‘contradict’ themselves on a ‘weekly’ basis. There are better trading education companies out there who charge a lot 'less', are more consistent and disciplined in their trading methodolgies, and also do ‘not’ charge for access to their trading rooms - however you should never 'shadow trade' from trades called by any trading room moderator - otherwise you will never become an independent trader. Do your ‘thorough’ due diligence before parting with your ‘hard-earned’ money!