CYOF

Experienced member
1,114 32
CYOF said:
Yes Tim,

The white text was intentional - one has to look closely to read it - makes one think a little :cheesy:

There are many successful business models out there that large successful companies use - and one of the main focus areas is in CI - or CPD, and many other naming conventions - but all are more or less singing off the same hymn sheet.

lets take a look at Microsoft - the most successful business model there is.

A key to the success of Microsoft has been their development of the Microsoft Solutions Framework - the MSF model.

The MSF model is the most successful model for implementing IT solutions - and has also been used by many industries outside of the IT sector.

Have to go now - so I will pick up later.

Regards,

To finish - and to cut short - most successful businesses use a model or framework to assist with achieving their targeted goals and objectives.

Therefore, it may be wise to consider a similar approach for trading.

After taken Tim's comments on board - thanks for making me think some more Tim :cheesy: I have revised the PVG document as follows - so that the model now starts to encompass some trading specific concepts.

As with all endeavours, the final PLAN/S will be different for all traders - in the same way as different Companies will have their individual Business Requirements, based on what they actually do and produce.

But, the framework used will be the same in all cases, albeit in a different terminology or naming convention - proven models that deliver results.

There is no need to re-invent the wheel - but you must first be aware that these tried and tested frameworks are out there - just waiting to be used by those who have the insight to take notice!

Think outside the box - and always keep an open mind towards "There Is Always A Better Way To Do Things" - but one must be prepared to do some work, and not relying on other people to "SHOW ME" how to do it.

No matter what one is "SHOWN" how to, the end results will be totally dependant on how one carries out the required "ACTIONS", and how one carries out the required "ACTIONS" will be totally dependant on how one "THINKS".

So, as numerous trading demonstrations have shown (according to what you read), when you show 500 people in a room how to trade correctly using a proven profitable trading system, the results from these traders will vary dramatically - why - I will leave you figure that one out for yourself ;)

What is the real Holy Grail then, in relation to trading?

I know what it is for me, but then again, I do my own thinking as I have long realised that NO ONE ELSE CAN DO MY THINKING FOR ME!
 

CYOF

Experienced member
1,114 32
timsk said:
CYOF,
Even when I'm trading full time (soon, I hope) and I've got more wonga than a person heavily laden with muchos wonga, I'll still continue to go on courses, be they freebies offered by brokers or private traders offering high priced 1-2-1's. Obviously, there are some rip off merchants out there and care must be taken to ensure that one's money is well spent - regardless of how much one has to throw around. Caveat emptor and all that. Me, I want to know what you know, and you over there, and YOU as well! Some knowledge comes my way for free (thank you T2W members!) and some I have to pay for. That's life: swings and roundabouts.

Tim the above are some very good points for discussion:

Another well known tried and tested model in the Business Improvement Arena is the Lean Manufacturing or Lean 6 Sigma approach.

Purpose: Improve Business Performance, Reduce Costs and Eliminate Waste

One key aspect is to quickly identify time wasting so that you can save a lot of unnecessary time and money - this problem seems to be of enormous magnitude in the trading arena.

So, although you are right to seek as much information as you can, it may be wise to first identify what you actually need to know, based on an approach similar to that put forward in the PVG document :!:


Okay, so I've enjoyed a glass or two of wine this evening, but am I wrong . . .?
;)

We are all normal, but some of us tend to get carried away at times, especially here in Ireland :D

Tim.

Regards,
 

mcd

Junior member
14 4
This article appears heavily influenced by the writings of Van Tharp. That said, this excellent article has distilled the essence of what is really required for successful trading - good method and money management are crucial but real success lies disproportionately in the mind of the individual.
 

damianoakley

Established member
542 57
mcd said:
This article appears heavily influenced by the writings of Van Tharp. That said, this excellent article has distilled the essence of what is really required for successful trading - good method and money management are crucial but real success lies disproportionately in the mind of the individual.


I personally think that Van Tharp's books are some of the best available in the world of trading.


Thanks

Damian
 

cronian

Junior member
15 1
No matter what you think, believe, or anything unless you have an edge you aren't going to be profitable. If you can find an edge and consistently apply it with good money mangement, you will be profitable. Is there anything more to it than that.

As far as a holy grail is concerned, I'd consider that to be a black-box, which is consistently profitable. Presumably, it could even employ machine-learning algorithms to constantly tweak how it trades. You just turn it on, and it starts printing money in any market. If you had that, it would be pretty easy to be consistently profitable. Although, if you couldn't handle being rich, I suppose it is possible you wouldn't be able to handle being wealthy, which might lead to other problems.
 

MattF

Newbie
5 0
new_trader said:
Isn't this somewhat of a contradiction? If a Grail is a Grail then anyone should succeed with it, shouldn't they? What is the difference between the "someone" that doesn't succeed with it and the "Someone else" that will?

actually knowing what it does vs. taking it for "face value"?
 

Splitlink

Legendary member
10,850 1,234
MattF said:
actually knowing what it does vs. taking it for "face value"?

The "American Dream" has, at least, made thousands of multimillionaires. The Holy Grail hasn't been found yet and, being "Holy", I doubt whether it will be of any use in share trading. The Euromillion lottery has a pot of 120 million euros tonight. I suggest that while waiting to find the Holy Grail, punters who buy a ticket might have a better chance of getting rich.

Split
 

new_trader

Legendary member
6,665 1,489
cronian said:
No matter what you think, believe, or anything unless you have an edge you aren't going to be profitable. If you can find an edge and consistently apply it with good money mangement, you will be profitable. Is there anything more to it than that.

As far as a holy grail is concerned, I'd consider that to be a black-box, which is consistently profitable. Presumably, it could even employ machine-learning algorithms to constantly tweak how it trades. You just turn it on, and it starts printing money in any market. If you had that, it would be pretty easy to be consistently profitable. Although, if you couldn't handle being rich, I suppose it is possible you wouldn't be able to handle being wealthy, which might lead to other problems.

Maybe, but I still can't understand why the "black box" must be a machine. Like the article says, that black box already exists inside your head but it seems that many traders continue searching for it elsewhere.
 

c6ackp

Well-known member
441 28
There are definitely plenty of Holy Grail "black-box" market models out there.

But, of course, they are not in the public domain. Search the web for Jim/James Simons. He runs the most successful hedge fund in history and it's all black-box quantative trading - 100's of trades per day in all asset classes. They don't interfere with the model - if they try to trade manually, it costs them money...

I was working at Goldmans last year and some of the most successful hedge funds were the statistical arbitrage boys who were grinding out the cash from 1000's of trades per day.

These worlds are very secretive, so it's up to you to do the homework to find good models which are robust enough to commit capital to.

c6
 

new_trader

Legendary member
6,665 1,489
c6ackp said:
There are definitely plenty of Holy Grail "black-box" market models out there.

But, of course, they are not in the public domain. Search the web for Jim/James Simons. He runs the most successful hedge fund in history and it's all black-box quantative trading - 100's of trades per day in all asset classes. They don't interfere with the model - if they try to trade manually, it costs them money...

I was working at Goldmans last year and some of the most successful hedge funds were the statistical arbitrage boys who were grinding out the cash from 1000's of trades per day.

These worlds are very secretive, so it's up to you to do the homework to find good models which are robust enough to commit capital to.

c6

But by definition there can only be one Holy Grail otherwise it's just another successful trading system- A standard Grail, nothing Holy about it.

To me, a Holy Grail trading system would be one that you place 100% of your capital on every trade without any stops. If you can't do that, it isn't Holy.
 

c6ackp

Well-known member
441 28
new_trader said:
But by definition there can only be one Holy Grail otherwise it's just another successful trading system- A standard Grail, nothing Holy about it.

To me, a Holy Grail trading system would be one that you place 100% of your capital on every trade without any stops. If you can't do that, it isn't Holy.

Oh, I see. No, that's (probably!) impossible. IF it did become possible then markets would cease to exist. It's possible to get 90%+ but because nothing is absolutely certain (death even?) you would still need a stop loss.

Everything is probability. According to quantum dynamics, even the existence of the fingers used to type this message is probabilistic.

A Holy Grail would need to be a model of the world which incorporated an exquisite level of detail. This would include everything from all nature, weather, all neurons in all human brains, etc.

If you believe in God, then this model would be something close to God, so I guess that's where the Holy bit comes in.

c6
 

CYOF

Experienced member
1,114 32
At Last -The Real Holy Grail Of Trading

All,

Stop right now what you are doing

Guess what - I have actually found The Real Holy Grail Of Trading.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Apologies as I have to take a break - you will see why. :eek:
 

trendie

Legendary member
6,841 1,400
maybe the Holy Grail is to become a broker.
That way you take a commission for every trade your clients make, irrespective of whether they make a profit or not.
Guaranteed money? 100% hit-rate ?

So......., how easy is it to set up a brokerage? :)
 

CYOF

Experienced member
1,114 32
Important Creative Talents For Trading?

Just in case some traders did not find my last post humorous :LOL: - here is something a bit more serious that some may find interesting?
 

CYOF

Experienced member
1,114 32
trendie said:
maybe the Holy Grail is to become a broker.
That way you take a commission for every trade your clients make, irrespective of whether they make a profit or not.
Guaranteed money? 100% hit-rate ?

So......., how easy is it to set up a brokerage? :)

Or maybe a Vendor? General statement - not directed at any Vendor on this site.

Do we actually have an annual $ figure for the Trading Education Market worldwide?

My guess is that it is in the very high $Millions - could it be in the $Billions??

It is something that also makes me wonder about traders - if a trader is so good at what he/she does, then why would he/she need to sell information.

Is it Greed or Failure?
 
 
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