tencorp vs trader_dante - discussion

[chump]

vot can I say mon ami ...you wish no doubt to see the big fat WWWWW bottoms nes pas signalling zee the higher HH HL's however some of change to sentiment (not necessarily reversals) must be with zee slimline V bottom non ? not az wide and obvious az you vud like ,but infinitely more efficient for zee purpose of conveying disbelief....and zere is nothing more disbelieving than when the price zips past your contra trade entry zen the slimline v bottom needs wiping urgently.

 

[mp6140]

On a scale from 1-10.. how confident are you that your long entry level @ 1.0312 will be reached ?

easy to lose track on this thread, but to my way of looking, it should see 1.0655 within a month and well worth being in 3 days ago ===== needless to say, with my dislike of sl's, his wide sl point is of no concern !

my only thought is that this would have been a super play from a few days after NOV 1, if one wants to play that long a term.

my humble opinion

(ok, not really humble)

mp

 

[tencorp]

you can't be serious dante! you're so nervous that you have to make the same trade as me?

 

[nine]

This thread will contain discussion of the trading contest between tencorp and trader_dante.

I moved the posts over and undeleted those that I originally deleted. Please advise if you have a post in this thread that doesn't fit any more and you want it removed.

Cheers, Nine

 

[chump]

Seeing that this thread is going to be 'tidied up', let me ask you this. Why should a newbie use a stop at all? No stop would mean no risk according to your philosophy.

NT,
In my disguise as 10cor I reply ;
What he has actually said here is simple enough and accurate enough. Most newbies gravate towards short timeframes with tight stops. They do this in the belief this will cut their losses short and is in fact a quicker way to make money. The latter has some validity ,but not in the way they think. Other than that they are wrong. The use of tight stops on short timeframes when as a newbie you do not have enough experience to trade this style is a sure fire way to lose money. Essentially this is tied up with the velocity of money. Used with skill this style is capable of making great gains. Used without skill that velocity works against the newbie and that is the crux of it. Really nothing to do with using "no stops" and everything to do with a misguided notion of what is required to trade and make money in any style of trading. Note, "velocity" in this issue means having your money virtually always in the market and leaveraged.Without an edge that exceeds transactional costs the newbie loses and tight (but meaningless) stops to the newbie are part of that result.

 

[Crap Buddist]

I hold a pair of 4's

you can't be serious dante! you're so nervous that you have to make the same trade as me?

Wise man once said.

Always play the markets hand and never disclose yours


Good luck chaps.

hmmm thinking about it how many tasty stop orders are going in at that level ?-

 

[counter_violent]

you can't be serious dante! you're so nervous that you have to make the same trade as me?

Considering T D is already ahead....a copycat trade would make perfect sense...ness pahh

 

[chump]

It's worth noting that TD has made this trade on virtually the same setup/stop techs as 10cor ,BUT did it off what looks to me to be a 15m TF as opposed to dailies...I also suspect ( LOL) that is trailing stop man... at this point won't be significantly different from what 10cor will do if his potential trade triggers...
This is actually now an interesting 'contest' not from a win/lose viewpoint ,but from the fact that it is looking more like a 'contest' based upon trade management.
Over a period is it of a month ? it's not going to say much about which is the 'best' trader because the styles are so different on a TF basis...10cor looks much more like a position trader and as such we won't see any significant run of trades from him to test his consistency..just not enough time allowed for the contest for that ...TD on the otherhand could take quite a few trades in this time and if he's consistently good enough amass quite a tally ,BUT with higher transactional costs....it's the old hare and the tortoise issue again.
Over a year we'd see who achieved the best trading record based upon return proportionate to risk taken ,but over a month it won't happen ,too short a time period.
Still it's interesting and streets ahead of the usual trading speak.

 

[tencorp]

It's worth noting that TD has made this trade on virtually the same setup/stop techs as 10cor ,BUT did it off what looks to me to be a 15m TF as opposed to dailies...I also suspect ( LOL) that is trailing stop man... at this point won't be significantly different from what 10cor will do if his potential trade triggers...
This is actually now an interesting 'contest' not from a win/lose viewpoint ,but from the fact that it is looking more like a 'contest' based upon trade management.
Over a period is it of a month ? it's not going to say much about which is the 'best' trader because the styles are so different on a TF basis...10cor looks much more like a position trader and as such we won't see any significant run of trades from him to test his consistency..just not enough time allowed for the contest for that ...TD on the otherhand could take quite a few trades in this time and if he's consistently good enough amass quite a tally ,BUT with higher transactional costs....it's the old hare and the tortoise issue again.
Over a year we'd see who achieved the best trading record based upon return proportionate to risk taken ,but over a month it won't happen ,too short a time period.
Still it's interesting and streets ahead of the usual trading speak.

the problem many traders have is that they mess around with things too much. they always want to be interfering with the trade rather than letting it play out. they can't just sit on their hands. they have to try and guess when the move is over rather than letting the market show them it is. i've always been attracted to systems because they remove the emotional element which is the downfall of many a trader. even the ones that have remarkable insight into the market and make excellent analysis, fall victim to the ego.

dante made an early entry into dollar/canadian in anticipation of a breakout and now hes out of it for 35 ticks. case in point really.

as chump says, my system calls long term trends and as such doesn't trade regularly. this dollar/canadian trade may be the only signal i get this month and even that may not trigger. but i don't think dante wants to go against me over the course of a year. does he? and if he doesnt then maybe there is no point...

 

[trader_dante]

dante made an early entry into dollar/canadian in anticipation of a breakout and now hes out of it for 35 ticks. case in point really.

The reason I am out of Usd/Cad is that I got a reversal signal (albeit on the hourly) coming into the KEY resistance formed by the top of the sideways range.

And considering I am ahead by close to £400 you might do better to concentrate on your own trading rather than the "mistakes" that I am making.

as chump says, my system calls long term trends and as such doesn't trade regularly. this dollar/canadian trade may be the only signal i get this month and even that may not trigger. but i don't think dante wants to go against me over the course of a year. does he? and if he doesnt then maybe there is no point...

I've got better things to do than call trades on here for a year to prove a point. However, if your system is as good as you seem to constantly make out it is, then you should consider making live calls here for the duration of a year. There are many newbies that are willing to pay out for an easy way to make money and I don't think anyone WOULD or even COULD argue that your system is BS and not worth paying for if it makes a good profit over a full year.

 

[pelzar]

Go on Dante..me old son!!

 

[chump]

the problem many traders have is that they mess around with things too much. they always want to be interfering with the trade rather than letting it play out. they can't just sit on their hands. they have to try and guess when the move is over rather than letting the market show them it is. i've always been attracted to systems because they remove the emotional element which is the downfall of many a trader. even the ones that have remarkable insight into the market and make excellent analysis, fall victim to the ego.

dante made an early entry into dollar/canadian in anticipation of a breakout and now hes out of it for 35 ticks. case in point really.

as chump says, my system calls long term trends and as such doesn't trade regularly. this dollar/canadian trade may be the only signal i get this month and even that may not trigger. but i don't think dante wants to go against me over the course of a year. does he? and if he doesnt then maybe there is no point...

10cor ,
you're the one who started the thread and made the promises of what you would do...so why don't you just do it otherwise it's just going to look a lot like the usual 'crap' that vendors post...if you don't wish to be lumped in with them just do what you said you would do and leave TD to do what he wishes to do as it does not have any bearing on your original post.
I wouldn't like to see my earlier post taken to be a means for cutting short the 'contest'. It certainly wasn't intended for that purpose.
Surely it would be very useful for newbies, to see this contrast of styles in play simply if only to give them an idea of what it takes to trade these different style ?.

 

[timsk]

Tencorp,
While I think you are to be commended for laying yourself open to public scrutiny in this way, you do yourself no favours whatsoever by appearing to be critical of trader_dante's trading. He is not the one with anything to prove here, you are. If, at the end of the exercise, you highlight some trades which you held for a lot longer than t_d did and, as a consequence, enjoyed a significantly larger profit - then it might be worth pointing out the difference in the two trading styles. But to imply that your style is better than t_d's or that there's anything inherently wrong with t_d's methodology is preposterous. The other problem that you've got is that on the evidence available so far, t_d is likely to be well ahead of you in $ terms after the month is completed - or whatever the time period is. As a result, it is he who is likely to be flooded with PM's from newbies wanting to buy his system and not you. And, from your perspective as a vendor, the real salt in the wound is that t_d's 'system' is completely free! This is your thread - your show - so you can do as you please. However, if I were in your shoes, I'd focus on my own trading and not comment on t_d at all, other than to compliment him on his trading so far.
Tim.

 

[FXSCALPER2]

I can't belive you guys are taking this stuff seriously. It is such a hilarious affair.:cheesy:

 

[Crap Buddist]

yah makes sense buying that usdcad cheap as chips if one believes the markets positioning long.

hmm as for buying opinions, thousands of pro fund managers are paid for them and thousands underperform, lag and lose. And these are professionals ? I cant get my head round it. Maybe the passion is lacking in them. Well lets face it most get paid regardless of whether the fund makes money or not, no reason for them to give a toss...

Well there was that guy who guarnteed backing any loss in the first 12 months for his customers. Good chap. All pro managers should offer that no ? lol

Money goes up money goes down, but its always around.

 

[Crap Buddist]

Well according to my Vince Winters course book it says flogg gbpjpy @ 199.55/60.

naturally its call the VW method, you get to wear the badge too.

 

[trader_dante]

Yup. Agreed. I was bored today so I waded through it.

Agreed. It's as boring as hell waiting for tencorp to do something.

I'm out of here

 

[tencorp]

As a result, it is he who is likely to be flooded with PM's from newbies wanting to buy his system and not you. And, from your perspective as a vendor, the real salt in the wound is that t_d's 'system' is completely free!

i'm not trying to have a go at dante i just think you get what you pay for. there is nothing to stop dante cherry picking trades and falling back on the fact that it all comes down to "discretion". so when someone gets a losing trade he can say "i would never have taken that..."

when you've got a system with rigid rules there is no such excuse. everyone sees the same entry and the same exit.

 

[trader_dante]

i'm not trying to have a go at dante i just think you get what you pay for. there is nothing to stop dante cherry picking trades and falling back on the fact that it all comes down to "discretion". so when someone gets a losing trade he can say "i would never have taken that..."

when you've got a system with rigid rules there is no such excuse. everyone sees the same entry and the same exit.

Valid point so you'll have to judge me by my live trades.

 

[tencorp]

In short, the world of trading is simply never as black and white as 99% of people see it, and THAT imho is why these systems are a pile of doggy doo.

unfortunately, you have no idea what you're talking about.

do you want to join the challenge too?

thought not.

why? i wonder. perhaps because it's a "waste of time", you've got "nothing to prove"...yeah, yeah. all convenient excuses for the simple fact that you couldn't make a return anywhere near as good as my system. i reckon you've been burnt a few times in the past by vendors so you think you're suddenly the expert on systems trading.

you're the one that is seeing things black and white mate. you lot make me laugh.