Spreading FTSE PNF Style

[JonnyT]

Hi folks,

Here are todays mechanical trades on the FTSE using PnF via Deal4free.

The net result, 3 trades 28 points profit. This is an average day.

These results can easily be improved upon

Today trading the futures didn't give the third signal so the results from futures trades were not as good. This is because the Deal4Free cash price did and does move more than the futures at times. What did I hear you say?....Bias....no never

JonnyT

 

[tykoon]

When do you mark the x or o, is it on the close of the bar, using the 1 min. chart? What box size and reversal amount would you recommend trying on the Dow?

Thanks for the informative posts.

 

[JonnyT]

The O's and X's are marked as they happen. i.e. Not on the close of the bar.

As for the Dow, you will have to give it a go yourself as this is one index I have not tried to work on.

Please remember to use Futures data as the cash values will give completely different charts.

JonnyT

 

[Dr Mike]

Hi Jonny

Managed 66 gross in 3 trades today, our charts look comparable but seems like one of the few days when my tighter stops were advantageous, - negligible whipsawing. - I was almost going to reverse my first trade as you did but didn't feel confident enough so took the profit when the reverse occured and re-entered after the breakout.

Like you said the FTSE seems to offer one main trade in the morning and another after NY opens.

Cheers

 

[Henry]

What was the basis of the first and third entries? I thought you were using reversals from double tops / bottoms, so are these examples of the descending tops you mentioned?

Good posts, cheers.

H.

 

[JonnyT]

Hi Henry,

Today presented no double tops or bottoms but did present a descending top on two occaisons. The first trade was reversed after resistance went.

Hi Mike,

The drinks are on you then...

JonnyT

 

[Dr Mike]

Hi Henry

Here's my chart for today. I entered on plain breakouts/breakdowns and closed as soon as the 3 box reversal occured.

I found it very strange today, the index seemed to go at a very leisurely pace with no false breakout's or breakdowns.

Jonny gladly buy you a pint when we meet. If you hadn't stuck that comparison chart up I wouldn't have started down this road.


Cheers

 

[ianp]

Hi, Jonnyt

I am trading ftse futures via easy2 trade, I have been trading a
mechanical system based on bar patterns, I have looked at
p&f charts on sierra , but find them to hard to read, can you let
me know how you get d4free data onto excel ?
is there a program you can buy

thanks ian

 

[JonnyT]

Hi Ian,

Its called use thy fingers!

Seriously its easy, just open an account with Deal4Free and use there supplied charts for FTSE Cash and manually do the work in Excel.

I know some serious FTSE traders who use PnF just like this every day.

JonnyT

 

[Fluke]

Hi JonnyT
Your thread dated 13/2/03, you said you are paper trading.

Are you now trading for real.

 

[ianp]

Thanks Jonny,

I have a d4free sb account,

I tend not to use there charts as I don't trust there data and
they seem a bit "spikey" at times.

if you have a my-track feed have you tried ukz-l ?

I don't know if cmc skew ftse cash but I wouldn't be surprised.

In p&f charts a 3 x 3 chart , is that 3x 1 min boxes changing
direction to indicate a reversal ?

I am wondering how to plot on excel

thanks ian

 

[JonnyT]

Hi Ian,

I have MyTrack and use LZ the FTSE Future. The actual index doesn't reflect the futures or Deal4Frees prices so may not get you into or out of trades timely.

JonnyT

 

[ianp]

good point jonny,

are you planning to trade direct to market
or are you sticking to sb, I am only asking as I find you can
often get inside the spreads using direct limit orders ,
it also helps when your wrong to get out with a smaller loss..


ian

 

[JonnyT]

Hi Ian,

You cannot trade meaningfully with Spreadbets. £20 per point is really the max before they won't deal with you equally.

I'm in the process of setting up a Limited Company to do 'size' with futures.

JonnyT

 

[GreyingSurfer]

The first trade was reversed after resistance went.

Hi, JT, Mike.

Very interesting stuff, thanks for sharing it with us, and I'm glad it seems to be working for you.

I was wondering, JT, what you are using as defining "resistance going". On yesterday's chart the reversal coincided with a double top break, is that a signal you frequently use for resistance? I assume you would not open an initial trade on a double break? I.e., if you hadn't already been short before the break at 3657 you would not have used that as an entry? But had you been long already at that point you might have used it as a reversal signal?

 

[Trader333]

"Size" with Futures

Hi JT,

What does "size" with futures mean ?


Paul

 

[JonnyT]

Hi Peter,

You comments are right. An initial position is not opened on a Double Top or Double Bottom breakout. They are used purely when a trade has failed. They then rarely fail. Its rather like a shakeout formation.

Hi Paul,

Size with futures means multiple contracts. In my case initially 5 FTSE contracts. i.e. £50 per point

JonnyT

 

[RogerM]

JT - As a late comer this thread, 3 questions spring to mind.

When you say you enter data yourself on the spreadsheet, do you mean that you are actually sitting there manually putting "O" and "X" on the spread sheet thru your keyboard? If so, I am in awe of your concentration levels. Or have you a datafee going into Excel which is set up to plot the P&F's according to how you have programmed the spread sheet? If so, how? I know it is easy to drop IB data into Excel, so can you automate this?

Secondly, I'm trying to reconcile your figs for yesterday. You write that you had +28, but according to your spreadsheet you had -15, +6 and +28 = +19 ?

Finally, I can see the reason for entry long at 3678 and short at 3702, but not the initial short entry at 3666, which subsequently became a loser after being +27 in profit. I'm allergic to seeing a winner turn into a loser - so is the rationale that you are in the market all the time with no stop loss?

Interesting thread!

 

[RogerM]

JT - As a late comer this thread, 3 questions spring to mind.

When you say you enter data yourself on the spreadsheet, do you mean that you are actually sitting there manually putting "O" and "X" on the spread sheet thru your keyboard? If so, I am in awe of your concentration levels. Or have you a datafee going into Excel which is set up to plot the P&F's according to how you have programmed the spread sheet? If so, how? I know it is easy to drop IB data into Excel, so can you automate this?

Secondly, I'm trying to reconcile your figs for yesterday. You write that you had +28, but according to your spreadsheet you had -15, +6 and +28 = +19 ?

Finally, I can see the reason for entry long at 3678 and short at 3702, but not the initial short entry at 3666, which subsequently became a loser after being +27 in profit. I'm allergic to seeing a winner turn into a loser - so is the rationale that you are in the market all the time with no stop loss?

Interesting thread!

 

[JonnyT]

Hi Roger,

I'll address your points individually:

1) I use SierraChart with MyTrack / IB feed for futures. This does the PnF for you. Yesterday was an example on how this method can be spreadbetted using Deal4Free and manual PnF charts. Its not as intensive as you think!

2) The trades were -15, 21, 22. You are looking at the rolling profit/loss!

3) The initial short was taken on descending peaks. i.e. the market was not going up so therefor was likely to go down, which it duly did. In reality I do not let a 27 point winner become a loser, but the example was purely mechanical. I made a suggestion that the returns could be improved in my original post. That move yesterday wasn't normal though, more common is that you get a double bottom or acsending bottom thus getting you out before a loss mechanically.

4) The system was in the market all the time yesterday, but I get out on a 50 point profit in the morning and look for 30+ in the afternoons. There are always stops in place. For instance on trade 1 the stop was at 3678 (stop and reverse), trade 2 3660 (18 points is my max risk per trade) and trade 3 3714 which would also have been a stop and reverse.

Hope this helps.

JonnyT