Seeking advice from a professional trader.

[Bernard9]

First of all, thank you for your interest in my post. The idea (goal if you like) is pretty simple - I want to become a professional trader.

I am 21 years old, coming from a small country called Lithuania situated in east Europe. Just before I graduated my school (In Lithuania we get all the education in one school, take the national exams - GCSE if compared to UK and then we are going to the University straight away) all of my thoughts were strictly focused on art. Graphic design was my career choice, though after 1 long year there - I changed my mind. After that I came up with the idea about moving to London. So here I am, working as a bartender in a high class restaurant, in the o2 Arena.

Approximately 8 months ago I found out about trading. But after I dropped out with design I wanted to be a lot more careful before pursuing a new career. I did read lots of books, got familiar with trading, markets, specific terms and so on. Started paper trading and got most of my free time attention to trading and investing. I simply dive in to markets for hours and read about it for extended periods of time. There is no better feeling for me when I am opening the trade and closing it. Basically I spent almost one year getting familiar with trading and markets and got really pumped up of what I could do for a living. Therefore I believe this is the career I will pursue.

However I am facing quite a dead end since my grades were design based. I have excellent grades for art and languages although my maths and economics are far away from A levels. Good quality colleges have high expectations on my exam scores (I had couple of interviews and I have been told if I'm over 21 - adult student, therefore there might be an actual way of landing a college - although probably far from the top ones out there). Another option would be college and go for the GCSE's in London but I have a feeling that I am a little bit too old (21) for that. Another problem is - money. I do not have deep pockets and I have to pay for my own expenses. Of course I think I could get a loan for uni and living. Its quite a long topic to discuss but I just want to know your opinion if I should follow on this for the career in city (I know this is the only way to get in there).

Another way is more attractive for me. Trade my own money and treat it like my own small business. Than slowly evolve from a small part-time activity to full-time career. I know it is possible because internet is packed with information. I do have determination and I am pretty good at learning on my own. This way I could carry on working at my full-time job and save money as well. I started to draw a plan in my mind for educating myself for 1-2 years (including in deep learning of markets, trading, fundamental analysis, paper trading, finding my way of trading - basically building a nice background for trading) while saving money and then switch to trading part-time and carry on to full-time from there. I do understand that I will not make millions. I am very serious about money management and risk. Though I believe this way would never land me a job (no matter if I would be successful or not) in investment bank or similar.

To sum up, I know what I want and I am hoping that someone who knows this business inside out will help me out here. I am quite young therefore I don't want to come up with decision on my own. I have quite a nice grip of how everything works but the problem is - which way should I go from being a professional bartender to a professional trader. Is there a way for me to land a job in city (London) or my best option is to learn on my own and trade my money. Obviously trading at home more likely will not bring me bonuses and there will be no salary.

I know here in t2w forums are plenty of intellectual individuals therefore I decided to write all of this down so I could get best mentoring towards my future plans from veterans. I know one thing for sure - I will pursue trading. Question is - which way will get me there. I am desperate to make the best decision which is why your advice is vital for me. I want to focus on my studying without any doubts if I am going the right way.

- Bernard

 

[timsk]

Hi Bernard,
Welcome to the site.

Getting a job in an investment bank - or similar city institution - will be tough to impossible without the right qualifications. You might be able to get into a proprietary trading firm but, unless you buy your way in, you'll have to demonstrate that you have excellent market knowledge, trading skill and experience. Ideally, all this will be supported by broker statements showing a track record of consistent profitability. So, this isn't exactly an easy option either!

You're young enough to do a u-turn and go back to Uni and start over - and this would demonstrate to a future employer real commitment and dedication on your part, not least because, presumably, you'll have to fund your studies with your bar work. That's a long haul. A short cut might be to go down the DIY route. If you've not already done so, you can open a spread betting account with £100 and be trading in 5 minutes max. However, the time it takes you to become profitable may be a lot longer than the time spent on a course and any job you might get subsequently, in the event that you go down the 'official' route. So, far from being a short cut, it might turn out to be a cul-de-sac! There are no easy options I'm afraid, no guarantees and, even if you do get a clutch of good qualifications, you still might not land the trading job you want. Sorry if all this sounds rather negative, but it's better to be told doom 'n gloom and then find it's much easier and more straightforward than you were lead to believe - than the other way around.

Take a look at this FAQ as it covers much of this stuff in more detail and there are some links in post #3 that might be of interest: How Do I get a Job Trading?

On a more positive note, anything is possible and there are, right now, young men and women the same age as you who know less about trading than you do currently who will one day become very successful in this business. There's no reason why you shouldn't be one of them. So, follow your heart and go for it. As my late mum was fond of saying: 'where there's a will - there's a way!'

Tim.

 

[neil]

Without "A" Levels and other qualifications in the sciences your career opportunities relating to the finance world are virtually non existant. The majority of people in the UK have non science based degrees or "A" levels, and others have no qualifications at all. Thus your competition in this country for most jobs is far stronger than your lower end qualifications.Plus you are too old for a career in the city world of trading.
Maybe you should seek a career in catering services or the arts ?

 

[Bernard9]

Thank you neil and timsk for your responses. I have went through all posts in this forum related to what I am looking for. There are loads of good information but I want a specific opinion of what would you do if you would be in my shoes. Don't get me wrong - I understand that there will not be an easy way. But I am willing to go the hard way route and put all of my guts for as long as I will have to become successful even if it will be years to come.

I am not rejecting 'official route' but I'm afraid it could be too late ( I am 21, if I would start studying this/next year - college f.ex. 'ifs - risk management course' I would finish it around 25-26) what are my chances to get in the city or investment bank and more importantly would you personally go this way?

I don't mind educating myself through books, keeping up with news, getting familiar with trading on my own and becoming profitable. Spend years learning the markets and finally managing to start full-time trading from my home. I know there are quite a few individuals who achieved that. It might be close to impossible but someone still got there. That means it is possible.

Thomas Edison once said 'Success is 10 percent inspiration and 90 percent perspiration' so hard work and determination is what important. I am asking you to give me the best orientated advice considering yourself in my shoes at my age just if you were starting your trading career. What would you do? How would you approach it with the knowledge you already have if you would be in my shoes this very same day? I could bet you would not go after catering or arts career because trading is something you love and want to do.

Last but not least, I do not think that my nationality is relevant to this at all. I mentioned it only because I wanted to give you my best background possible. I still believe that UK judge by the qualification, determination and personality not by 'where you come from'. And I don't think I will be wrong by saying that manager wouldn't choose someone who's native but less sufficient rather than a person who's not native but more determined and hard working. That would be just very wrong.

Anyway, thanks again for your time. It is very valuable for me and I really appreciate it.

- Bernard

 

[Outside_The_Box]

I'm not going to give you advice, but I will tell you my story.

Here's the short version:
I graduated high school in 2000, did college for a year, enlisted in the military for 4 years, got out and went back to work in the food service while going to college. I decided to get into trading about 4 years ago because I didn't want to work for someone else for the rest of my life. I did extremely well in school, I made the Dean's List every term, but I dropped out because I just couldn't stand the grind, and knew I had more potential than just making $50-$80k a year for the rest of my days. LOL Trading appealed to me. Anyway, I have turned the corner in my trading and I am making money pretty much every week. Enough to live off of and to also keep growing my account at a meaningful rate. It can be done. But, don't quit your job prematurely. I did that once and fell on hard times because of it. I got overconfidant and cocky. Don't do that. LOL

Trading for a living is very possible, but just don't expect it to come easy. There is a LOT of hard work to do if you want to do it. You will spend thousands upon thousands of hours in front of the screen studying charts, reading, etc. There will be times when you second guess whether it's the right thing to do. You will fail repeatedly, and you will get very frustrated at times. You will burn out. But, just like with anything else in life, if you continue to apply yourself, learn from your mistakes, and stay the course, you can make it. Trading gets bad press because a lot of people, probably most people, try and fail one time and then throw in the towel. Well, if people took that approach to everything in life they would never succeed at anything, except for maybe throwing their vegetables at the wall when they don't want to eat them. LOL

Okay, I lied. I am going to give you some advice, similar to what timsk said. Open an account with a very small amount of money, $50 or $100 (or Euros in your case?). Forex is perfect for that. You can trade for as little as .01 per pip. Get good doing that before you do anything else. It will get you used to trading real money but will be *basically* as inconsequential as a demo account. If you lose it all, oh well. Life will go on. LOL

 

[brettus]

Okay, I lied. I am going to give you some advice, similar to what timsk said. Open an account with a very small amount of money, $50 or $100 (or Euros in your case?). Forex is perfect for that. You can trade for as little as .01 per pip. Get good doing that before you do anything else. It will get you used to trading real money but will be *basically* as inconsequential as a demo account. If you lose it all, oh well. Life will go on. LOL

You're definitely not trading currencies. O2 arena is in London, home of the great british pound. American? Ignorance is bliss.

Anyway. My advice is go open a small account, and don't quit the day job. Trading is actually a lot easier with a job. You might find out that you're not interested in trading very quickly.

 

[timsk]

I am asking you to give me the best orientated advice considering yourself in my shoes at my age just if you were starting your trading career. What would you do? How would you approach it with the knowledge you already have if you would be in my shoes this very same day?

Hi Bernard,
Okay, I'll tell you what I'd do. First though, keep in mind that I'm a home based, largely self taught, retail trader. So, what I know about the pro' side of the industry can be written on the back of a postage stamp! . . .

I'd start by assessing all the options. That would include all the jobs related to trading - not just the job of trader itself. As you know, 'casino' banking has received a lot of stick since the financial crisis in 2008, and many institutions are slimming down their operations. Then there's the rise of high frequency trading (HFT) which, increasingly it seems, is dominating the daily traded volume. So, if I were to go down the 'conventional' route of getting qualifications, I'd want to know that there's likely to be a job waiting for me at the end of my studies. These days, my impression is that the qualifications IBs want are degrees in maths and physics rather than economics and that they are increasingly selective, awarding the best jobs to those with double firsts from Oxford or Cambridge. These are seriously clever people - are you one of them?

Part and parcel of my research would be to contact the Human Resources (HR) departments of the institutions I think I might want to work for - and ask them for sample specifications of trading related jobs, to include essential qualifications and experience. Google 'recruitment consultants' and find ones that specialise in the banking and financial sector. Ask them what their dream CV would be, knowing that if you were the man with said CV, they could place you anywhere at the drop of a hat. After that, try and talk to anyone who's actually working for an IB doing the job you think you'd like to do and ask them for advice. Where do they see the industry heading; who will the banks be recruiting in 3-5 years time? Look around these forums and check the profiles of the poster's who appear to be talking sense. Some of them are industry professionals who will be happy to help you via PM or e-mail - but may elect not to post publicly on the main boards.

If you decide to go down the prop' shop route, I'd do much of the above, but it will be a lot easier in some respects. With this sector, the harder job is selecting the right prop' firm that's really going to give you every possible chance of success. That's much harder, because prop firms range from being very good to borderline fraudulent scam merchants. So, this will involve gathering as much information as possible, so that you can make an informed decision. If I were you, I'd try and work out which firms I'd be happy to work with/for first, and then work out what I need to do to get in. Don't be tempted by the less good firm (in your eyes) which doesn't have such stringent entry requirements. Again, contact anyone on here who's actually worked at one and can offer you their first hand experience.

If, having done all of the above, you've drawn a blank - then the DIY retail route is the probable answer. You'll have to do something else for a living, so focus on career choice number two (Catering and Hospitality is an obvious choice for you). It's not what you ideally want to do but, you must be pragmatic and accept things as they are. You might well find you can have an enjoyable, successful and rewarding career in that industry, all the time trading from home in your spare time. If the trading really takes off then, at some point in the future, you may have the option of quitting your job to trade full time. That's the route that the majority of T2W members take - mainly because most of them have little choice in the matter.

That's it - let us know what you decide!
Tim.

 

[bevan118]

Hello there everyone.

My name is Lewis, I have just read this post with great interest, having joined T2W yesterday as an educational target that I set myself (to join trading forums and get communicating with people whos shoes I would like to be in.)

In many ways I feel I am in a similar position to Bernard and am looking for similar advice in terms of what you would do in my shoes, though my goal is very much to continue working whilst educating myself and trading in my spare time until perhaps in 10-15 years or so I could afford to give up work and trade full time from home should i want to give up my job. I am 22 years old and work as a bricklayer which i genuinely enjoy and am now finally getting somewhere with after years of being in and out of work and only really labouring most of the time. My problem with my career is that it doesn't offer the opportunities I would like it to and I don't think I'm cut out to be as good at it as I would need to be to succeed much further than what I have. It can also on top of that be largely a who you know, not what you know business. I also believe I am capable of doing better things in other areas but up until now I just havn't found anything I'm passionate about learning, besides health and fitness, and i am now a qualified personal trainer though after learning what succeeding in that field would involve decided bricklaying would probably be more lucrative for me.

I have only been learning about trading for 5 or 6 weeks but I am totally fascinated by everything I've learned and read so far. I genuinely believe I have many of the personality traits required to become a successful trader, though by no means am I underestimating the hard work, time and dedication required. I also believe there couldn't be a better point in my life to stumble across a passion for learning this stuff as I have all the time in the world to get it right, I live the life of Riley at home with my parents whom I get on very well with and have no intentions of that changing in the next few years. I have no responsibilities at all, besides working 8a.m to 4.30p.m weekdays my time is mine to do whatever i want with and I have nothing to lose but disposable cash of which i currently have none of, which I see as a good thing as it means my only option if i'm fascinated by trading is to educate myself about it. The reason I have nothing is that I've just finished paying off money I borrowed to do the things I wanted to do whilst young knowing that i was living beyond my means and I'm now ready to save hard and knuckle down on making a future for myself one way or another, I now earn more than I ever have though still a very modest amount, that said i have no outgoings at all except a phone bill and having to run my car and van. I could very realistically put away, and afford to say goodbye to although of course thats not the intention about £10k a year.

My question to anyone with some knowledge or an opinion on routes i should take is where do i go from here. I currently have a couple of hundred pounds to my name, I am fascinated by trading and wish to learn what styles would suit me best, which means i wish to learn about them all. I feel I've learned quite a bit so far considering 6 weeks ago i didn't really know what the term trading meant, which is why when i recieved an offer through a voucher website to take a foundation trading course for £20 I decided I was interested enough to spend the money to find out a little bit about it. The course consisted of explaining the basic terms, a little bit on fundamental analysis, 5 hours of technical analysis, setting up a demo account and showing how to use a few of the indicators, then an hour each on risk management, journalling and psychology. It seemed like fairly impartial information in favour of breakout trading, making trades over a few days at a time to begin with, but it didn't explain any plans, strategies or methodologies at all, just stated the importance of having them and at the end of the course tried to sell their advanced "how to trade" course for much more than £20, which i chose not to take as i'm completely new to trading and do not wish to trade solely from what one source of information suggests that i do, nor do I wish to throw large amounts of money at things I don't understand. Though in hindsight from what my google serches have returned it may well be fair value and I probably will take some sort of educational course maybe with them, maybe not, in the near future. Since then I googled books for beginning traders and have read and completed the study guide for "come into my trading room" by Alexander Elder which again i found very informative. I have started documenting the things I am doing to learn and setting myself educational targets just to get used to journalling my activities as it's clearly of paramount improtance in trading. I have ordered the book and study guide for "technical analysis of financial markets" by john J murphy as technical analysis particularly fascinates me and that book just keeps popping up in my searches, I have joined T2W and read through all the "essentials of first steps" followed up on the links (I feel the draft trading plan, having read through it, will be particularly helpful when i get that far) I have read many of the FAQ's and now i am here on a thread introducing myself and asking for advice. If you were in my shoes what would you do, having to fund my trading education as i earn what comes first? books, software,I know i need a better computer as all i have is a half broken netbook and an iphone, finding a course from a reputable vendor, finding the instruments i am likely to start trading so i can follow them for a year or so before i actually start trading, paper trading i know is important, i have made a few practice trades just to show i know how to use indicators and place a trade knowing what it's worth and set a stop loss, limit etc but I feel that for it to be of any value it needs to be carried out in exactly the same way live trading would be and I feel at the minute my time is best spent digesting the seemingly invaluable information that I'm spending all my free time sourcing. In which order would you do things and is there anything I particularly need to focus on or not miss out?

If anyone has read this far then thanks for your time and any positive input will of course be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again

Lewis

 

[libertas]

You have to look at like this Lewis and Bernard. If you were looking to become a professional golfer or tennis player or brain surgeon or professional whatever how much time and commitment do you think it would take? If you are both looking to become consistently profitable traders i.e. professional you are looking at exactly the same level.

Trading is not a 'game' that can be paid lip service to, if you want to make this your calling. I am talking about thousands of hours of study, practice and real experience. The markets are a brutal environment and only the well prepared and strong survive, let alone prosper.

If you decide to go for it then it will be one hell of an odyssey and it will take you places within yourself that you probably never knew existed.

Best wishes and good luck if you decide to 'go for it' , you won't regret it whether you fail or succeed.

 

[bevan118]

Thanks for your reply Libertas,

I fully understand the amount time, commitment and discipline someone who knows very little about the markets will need to give to become a consistently profitable trader is pretty much all of the time commitment and discipline they have in them and even then if they're not the right sort of person that would not be enough. I believe I could be one of the few that succeed and am willing to do everything within my power for this to eventually be the case.
I also believe from what I've learned that the markets are so big and so vast with so many different people having different approaches to them that one could never know everything there is to know, and in fact a great many people will probably spend years dedicating their time to doing things in a silly and sometimes dangerous way just because they have failed to sieve through the garbage fed to them on their way to becoming unsuccessful. I do not intend on becoming one of those people, however when you know nothing, deciding what information is garbage and what is valuable can obviously be very difficult, which is why i decided, given that i know very little i should join forums and seek out people who know a lot more than I do and ask them to point me in the right direction, so to break things down. what would you suggest is the next educational target i should set myself?

once again thanks for your time it's much appreciated.

 

[libertas]

Thanks for your reply Libertas,

I fully understand the amount time, commitment and discipline someone who knows very little about the markets will need to give to become a consistently profitable trader is pretty much all of the time commitment and discipline they have in them and even then if they're not the right sort of person that would not be enough. I believe I could be one of the few that succeed and am willing to do everything within my power for this to eventually be the case.
I also believe from what I've learned that the markets are so big and so vast with so many different people having different approaches to them that one could never know everything there is to know, and in fact a great many people will probably spend years dedicating their time to doing things in a silly and sometimes dangerous way just because they have failed to sieve through the garbage fed to them on their way to becoming unsuccessful. I do not intend on becoming one of those people, however when you know nothing, deciding what information is garbage and what is valuable can obviously be very difficult, which is why i decided, given that i know very little i should join forums and seek out people who know a lot more than I do and ask them to point me in the right direction, so to break things down. what would you suggest is the next educational target i should set myself?

once again thanks for your time it's much appreciated.

Firstly what you will read on this subject will be 99% rubbish. Some is just ignorance other stuff is pure misdirection designed to ensnare newbies into herd beliefs.

In my view a good first step is to just observe the markets. Start to consider why markets move as they do. Who and what is it that moves markets and for what purpose. Try to stay away from easy answers i.e. indicators and avoid shortcuts because there are none.

I'll PM you the names of a few people who used to frequent these boards who are far more knowledgeable and skilled than me at this time.

Best Wishes

Dan

 

[FringFX]

To Lewis and Bernard,
I'd also suggest that you go trade an account while working. The income from your job will serve as "fuel" to your "fire" (passion for trading). Another fuel is continuous learning.

Lewis,
as a bricklayer, you are familiar with what's needed in trading: laying "bricks" or foundations... taking small steps prior to undertaking the big steps ahead of you.

If you don't lose your FIRE, you WILL make it NO MATTER WHAT. I guarantee you that Good luck to both of you

 

[Bernard9]

I had couple days of what I like to call 'living behind the bar' haha. Was covering in Richmond Gaucho. If one of you lives in London or Richmond I would recommend to go there - nice river view, great food and awesome drinks! Location is 10 feet from Thames so you won't be disappointed!

Awesome! I've got some great responses to my questions!
Outside_The_Box,
Great story. I remember watching Million Dollar Traders when I just started getting to know trading. I've heard that ex military usually are great at trading because of the discipline. Its nice to know that you managed to live out of trading and even grow your own account. I wish I could be there next to you with my process, haha.
timsk,
I can not express in words how grateful I am to you for this decision making post. That's exactly what I was looking for when I was writing down the very first post of this thread. I will follow your advice to find out if I am still capable going the traditional-official route or if I should go the way as most of t2w members went. I will let you know what I will be able to find out (in this thread probably?) in time. Although you've never said your opinion on this. Would you 'go pro' or you would go trading with your own funds if you would be in my shoes? Great guide, but what would be your own choice? I will explore my options obviously but I want go for the best one. Anyway thanks for spending your precious time helping me out on this, respect. +
bevan118,
Nice to meet you. We're in the very same route you and me. Its always nice to meet someone who's pursuing their dream. Good luck learning how to trade and maybe one day both of us are going to be traders!
libertas,
I never had problems investing extensive amounts of hours in to something I am really passionate about. It happened more than once when I found myself planning to go to sleep but still reading about what trading is and eventually staying till morning dawn not falling asleep before that a-ha moment hits. If you've seen the masterpiece called 'The Nightmare Before Christmas' directed by Tim Burton and remember the scene when Jack stayed overnight until he realized what Christmas actually is (There are some downsides to this though, I hate when this it when I have to be at work tomorrow - zombie, haha).
FringFx,
I was considering this option for a while now. I am somewhere around 10% profit at the moment on my demo account. Although rather than going live with forex trading, I was considering spread betting option with forex. Its way more efficient on wins, unfortunately loses as well however no taxes has to be paid since its betting. If you will do it right - I don't need such a massive amount of budget to do it rather than actual stock/currencies buying/selling to get the bigger profit/loss. Although I want to be 99% confident before I start trading my own money (I am not scared to lose 100£ but I want to do all I can before getting there in the first place). That fire you're talking about is exactly what brought to this forum in the first place.

I think I've got my answer towards what steps should a person take to get in to the city and become a professional trader. Although bevan118 approached it from a different perspective. What you personally believe would be the best way to get in to trading on your own to become professional? It is a rhetorical question obviously since there are no rules to do it - everyone chooses their own way. I think its pretty much like trading itself - every trader trades differently. Some guidelines from professionals could help us out a lot, I believe. What books would you recommend to read and analyse that guided you the way you're as a trader right now? What exactly you found out when you were learning how to trade specifically rewarding on the subject? Once again I understand how wide and massive this topic is and I do not expect you to write another book in here just because we could use your help. However some pointers or guidelines (like book titles f.ex.) would save us loads of time on searching. Therefore you're more than welcome to share what you think would be educating towards the right direction. Thanks !

P.s. If one of you are in London - feel free to show up (PM?) in o2 arena, Gaucho. I am looking forward to meet anyone who's trading for a living. On my behalf I will award you with my drinks, haha.

- Bernard

 

[Outside_The_Box]

As far as books go, I recommend anything by the following authors:

Mark Douglas
Alexander Elder
Jack Schwager (the Market Wizards series)
Steve Nison

And these:

Reminiscences of a Stock Operator by Edwin Lefèvre
The Intelligent Investor by Benjamin Graham
Trading and Exchanges - Market Microstructure for Practitioners by Larry Harris
Trade Your Way to Financial Freedom by Van K. Tharp
Encyclopedia of Chart Patterns by Thomas N. Bulkowski

There's more but this is what comes to mind right now. My coffee hasn't quite kicked in yet. LOL

 

[bevan118]

Been too busy reading all day to thank everyone for their replies.

Libertus- I'm only a little way into searching the names and threads you reccommended to me but certainly find what I've read some of the most enciteful pieces, and clearly carried out by good people who are far more intelligent, experienced and successful than i could ever hope to be. I'm trying as i learn, to educate myself about contrasting points of view at the same time so i can keep an open mind and take the best out of all the sources of information i come across and i believe this has definately opened my eyes to different ways of thinking before the convential education i'm undertaking has closed them, thanks for the pointers!

Fring FX- This is definately my plan as i enjoy my job and would only consider giving it up for the freedom being a successful trader could offer me in the distant future, also, i know the markets are a harsh environment but you do have control over what you do within them. If i fall over at work and break my leg or the houses aren't selling on the site i'm working on so the company decides to cease the work for a bit, i don't get paid for a bit, and while being the lucky individual with no responsibilities that i am it is ok, i wouldnt want to bring my future children into the world knowing that full trust in myself simply isnt enough to enjoy a sustained way of life, and I just don't see a scenario where the passion i've found for learning about trading (or fire as you describe it) dissappears and i decide it's not a viable option for me and there's no money in it anyway, lol! so thanks for the support in the early stages of being the novice that i am.

Bernard- I'm probably one of the few people on this forum who is less experienced than yourself so there isn't really much advice i could offer but i would suggest we keep in contact with each other along our journies as we're both in similar positions and clearly passionate enough about learning to stay up all night, and as we've by now realised there is no holy grail then 2 heads are better than one in finding useful sources of information as novices, we could probably help each other out along the way!

outside_the_box- Cheers for the reccommendations, I have recently read "come into my trading room" by alexander elder and found as a beginner it definitely solidified my opinion that risk management, dedication, discipline and the psychology behind human behaviour are all equally as important if not more so than your trading methods themselves, and some useful methodical information aswell.
Reminiscence of a stock operator keeps coming up everywhere i look also, may have to make it my next read. If it's not out dated by now it's probably worth my time.
I have just finished reading the naked traders guide to spread betting, which isn't a book i was reccommended or planned to read but was the only trading book i could find in my local WHSmiths so i decided to give it a read whilst waiting for the technical analysis book i've ordered to be delivered which has turned up today and i'm about to open, the naked trader does seem a bit of a wideboy and he does make it sound easy but there is some useful stuff in there for someone like myself too, will be sure to look into the other books you've reccommended!

Thanks again for the support everyone!

 

[Fuzzybid]

I think the post of Brettus is the 1 if would take if i where in your guys shoes right now. I remember back when i started also whent 1 time fulltime didnt worked out so well was your guys age. Now i am back in a job and trade longerterm trends sometimes go monkey long or monkey short when my gut tells me. But to create that gutfeeling took me years offcourse i have certain entry rulles etc. But i dont really care about tech analysis they can be some guide but at the end it all depends what the central banks do. Especailly with currencies intrest rates inflation is all you need to knwo and all represented on that dump chart you look at. Trying to figure out somekind of code on that chart is a wast of time and never gonna work it represents the hearthbeat of a country or coomoditie or whatever you trade. Remember inflation growth and intrest rates all you need to know. that stuff you aint gonna see on a 5 min chart or tick chart thats for the daytraders who eventually all blowup or dont make a penny at all. Also great for the gamblers they like to add colours etc so it represents more a slotmachine. AAh enough of my talk

 

[Bernard9]

Good late evening guys, I was just wondering across youtube watching educational stuff (Tedx - TED: Ideas worth spreading if you have never heard of them, they have loads of independent informational sessions filmed and uploaded to youtube channel when professionals are talking about different subjects) and stumblon upon these two videos:

TEDxConcordia - Yan Ohayon - The Impact of Algorithmic Trading - YouTube

TEDxNewWallStreet - Sean Gourley - High frequency trading and the new algorithmic ecosystem - YouTube

and I got a little bit worried. Numbers are not just concerning but shocking - 2/3 trades in the entire world are done by algorithms. There are thousands of traders but none of us are as fast as systematic machines of massive dealers. My question is how do we compete against it? Can we still win or we're just small fishes in a big pool?

 

[Fuzzybid]

just dont dayrade suckers game anyway