Scam Merchants - Lets get rid of them??

[Finlayson]

to anyone who is truely sharing something of value, for that purpose, sharing. posts & comments intended as a bit of a jest or just seeking a bit of truth will be taken on the chin as a professional...think about this it is true....if you were asked to do a talk on a subject that nobody knew more than you....you would do it with confidence & no amount of heckling would phase you.

I have nothing personal against the guy starting this thread or any other guru. just seems that comments like we have seen so far are to be expected.....'you are gonna catch a few tomatoes''

I believe how they handle this will be a good indicator on how truthful & sound they are !

Jay

 

[Directional]

I'm surprised Zenda has cleared off so quick after becoming the focus of some mild ribbing.

The jibing, most of it good natured IMO has come from fellow T2Wers, surely Zenda would have been in for much more direct nastiness if his campaign idea had gathered some pace in the future. If he's cutting and running after some mild flaming from known T2W'ers then maybe he wouldnt have had the stomach to deal with the real scammers when they start feeling the heat and come looking for trouble.

Besides, much of the comments are perfectly justifiable questioning of the mantle Zenda is assuming - it would always have been difficult for a vendor of trading tutorage to champion a cause that so many feel so strongly about - so many people have been ripped off in various guises and at various times that someone who is also a vendor of the same making this their cause is a creating a veritable tinderbox of accusations, bias not least being one of them, and ulterior motives being another - publicity seeking & forum whoring are common scammer tactics seen here on T2W all the time, Zenda should know this and at least have realized that those very same accusations could have been levelled right back at him.

Whilst I think its certainly a nice idea, perhaps he hadnt thought it through very carefully - definately seems to be a case of putting ones head above the parapet and making oneself a very big target for both sides - "friendly fire" and from the people he is also shooting at.

 

[rols]

From Zendas list of praise:

This is just what I need to extend my portfolio of financial activities. This course kept me awake all day! You have no idea what praise that is. The cost of the course and professional approach is exemplary – John Welburn

like I said the perfect audience - he pays you £400 a day to keep him awake!

From the Introduction to Spreadbetting course

"Another one of my courses...in conjunction with the no.1 SB company Finspreads ..this course is great value priced at just £199.99....that's less than £200.....and less than what a barrister or a solicitor would charge you for an hours consultation where you do all the talking......."


Priceless!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDRgwcs31y8&mode=related&search=

 

[Finlayson]

value priced at just £199.99....that's less than £200..


well if they cant figure that out for themselves !!!! or maybe just directing it to a select audience

Jay

 

[SOCRATES]

Removed - never to contribute on T2W forums again I may submit articles for the benefit of those that appreciate it but there are some exceedingly nasty and jealous individuals here. :|

You are funny and very entertaining , I must admit.

You have forgotten to mention a supercilious plonker (your own words) from another thread entiltled "trading courses"....I have a memory like an elephant....you will not like this...

This "supercilious plonker" is now going to explain clearly what it is you are up to, because if no one can, or has not yet on these boards, this supercilious plonker has pinned it....

What it is....is not what it is made to appear to be....it is something completely different, and, to crack the riddle, you have to approach it from an angle no one yet has approached it from.

Only when you have done this does it become obvious.

Robert Newgrosh is a highly respected market technician. I will tell you he is the only contributor to the Traders' Lab for whose contribution, I felt deserved full marks, which I gave him. What he says is absolutely correct, perfect.

I also met him at the Society of Technical Analysts in London some time ago and was very impressed with his views.

I doubt very much if a serious gentleman like him and an accomplished market professional is going to be bothered as to who runs scams relating to spread betting courses or what have you. I very much doubt he has any interest in courses devoted to spread betting or who is scamming who.

I must remark, because it often happens, that individuals with an agenda of their own are apt to misquote others or, worse still to embroil them in matters alien to them, while the victim of this kind of insidious manipulation of perception is unaware of its real intent.

The whole mystery of this sudden benevolence and kindness towards newbies and their plausible defence by way of "exposing scams" has an easy explanation.

It may not be the absolutely correct explanation, and if so, I stand to be corrected.

What you ought to consider, carefully consider, is the misguided attitude of pretending to protect the interests of newbies, cynically pretending to protect the interests of newbies, whereas in reality the agenda is a possibly a very different one indeed.

Consider the idea of someone launching a campaign to rubbish the competition, or at least, the percieved competition, whether real or not.

What could be the best strategy to carry this out while appearing to be acting within a moral framework for the benefit of the innocent, the unprepared and the complete beginner ?

Does in the end analysis all of this not suggest self interest ?

If it did work, think of the percieved possibilities to a vendor able to knock out the competition and have the entire market to himself....funny isn't it ?....that is what you have to carefully consider and put your attention on, rather than the merits or demerits of who is doing what or succeeding or not succeeding at success, I respectfully submit.

Earlier on, on this very thread, I mentioned a quote of yours on another thread, relating to your comment of how your wife, after many years, still regards what you are engaged in as gambling.

You had the opportunity to refute that, because I left an escape route open for you to take advantage of it, by intelligent application, which you have not availed yourself of.

The solution would be quite simple...You could simply reply that your wife has this impression because you pursue a policy of "limited value reporting", which many traders and successful businessmen are obligated to pursue to protect themselves from greedy and nagging partners. This would have been suffficient for you to gracefully let yourself off the hook ....elegantly.

I very much look forward to your response to all of the above should you choose to surface again to respond to this "supercilious plonker" as you choose to call me.

 

[fxmarkets]

Tom Cat Or ToM TiT?

From the Introduction to Spreadbetting course

"Another one of my courses...in conjunction with the no.1 SB company Finspreads ..this course is great value priced at just £199.99....that's less than £200.....and less than what a barrister or a solicitor would charge you for an hours consultation where you do all the talking......."


Priceless!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDRgwcs31y8&mode=related&search=

Tom Cat Or ToM TiT? I bet on the latter heres a bloke flogging Tom Cat trading And I can clock on the box , I assume it comes in a box as displayed of course, er it says its Ranked No. 1 ?


now also, finspreads is continued to be stated as the UK's number 1 spreadbet firm.. isn't there any control or shouldn't there be a little asterix next to these statements , along the long's of N0 1 based on uk sales monitored by or market cap of the firm etc or .. in a poll of 1 bloke who work's for finspreads with a gun to his head was asked etc.. ,

also this tomcat is ranked number one, of and by something, someone some entity etc, and its only £49.50 , but chucked in if you buy a course for £200.00 .

Thats a bargain right for being ranked number 1 ?? , so why do I think its Tom Tit. ? what am I not seeing?

Zenda your advertised number 1 rankings for tomcat and finspreads bookies etc, could you explain what they (the rankings) are based on etc, how and who has done the measure and who it's controlled or independently assayed by for us.

cheers.

 

[chrissutch]

I've been trading for nearly seven years now and during that time I have purchased many books, software and systems however I am still learning. Would I swap those formative years and the hundreds I spent just to learn the basics of trading for a one day course for 400 quid? Bloody right I would. It's only 40 pips at £10 a pip if you learn properly you'll make that back pretty soon now thats what I call a good investment.
No where in Johns promotions have I seen him state he will turn you into a super trader who will fill their boots everyday, I would imagine that would be up to yourself after you had left the course.
But hey! thats why everyone wants to trade, because they believe it can make them rich with very little effort.

Retire by tomorrow lunchtime, pip heaven, Secret system never released before only £19.99 SCAM

Learn to trade £399.00 HONEST INJUN.

The only reason I'm posting now is because I thought I'd have a long weekend but give a man a fish and he will eat for a day teach him to fish and he will spend the rest of his life dangling a piece of string in the water.

 

[jimbo57]

.

 

[roguetrader]

...........as the rumble of distant guns dies down only the odd sporadic burst of small arms fire remains, and the smoke drift across the battlefield

 

[chrissutch]

Just got a new email.
Dear chris,

A quick update on that new course I mentioned last
week. It includes full training, 10 CDROMs and
bonus software to watch and study at your own
pace. But what is so impressive is the level of
ongoing support you get. Not just email and
phone support, but the very regular 'Market
Overview' reports telling you which markets to
watch and trade.

I've just finished going through the whole lot -
and WOW this is something really special. It
shows you very clearly how to track what the big
money professionals are really doing in the
markets. You don't have to rely on fancy charts
or complex calculations. And it isn't day
trading, so you're not glued to your PC
frantically watching the markets. All you need
is 20 minutes a day and a PC with an
internet connection.

http://www.fts4.com/earlywarning.html


Here's a snippet from Keith, the guy who wrote
the course:

"I stumbled across this completely by accident
back in 1997. You see, I'd missed out on a big
trade that could have easily pocketed me £16,000
in 2 weeks. I was so angry at myself for missing
this big move I had to find why.

I could have worked for decades trying to figure
it out! But I was lucky. For some reason one day
I was looking at a quite unrelated chart and
superimposed it on my missed trade.

Bingo! Something clicked and I realised that I
was seeing the markets as a professional insider
would. I used the same method to test other
markets and realised that this wasn't some fluke!

And no, this isn't some basic price pattern
you'll find in the charts - the kind that most
trading systems use to flag up trading
opportunities. It was only by 'superimposing'
these 2 unrelated charts together that I made a
connection.

When you see it for yourself, even if
you've never looked at the markets as a source of
income before, you'll realise right away that
this is like been given the green light by the
insiders to print money!"

********************
Launching Soon
********************
We're launching this course really soon but
because it includes excellent one-to-one support
there are only a very limited number of places
available. So to keep up to date before we
launch and to ensure you're one of the first to
hear when we go 'live' sign up to our special
'early warning' list now. Just click here:
http://www.fts4.com/earlywarning.html

Warmly...Dave

PS. My apologies for repeating myself to all
those of you who downloaded '10 Steps' recently
and joined the 'early warning' list then. I
appreciate your support and I'll reveal that
surprise I promised you very soon indeed!

http://www.fts4.com/earlywarning.html

FTS

13 Glenmore Road
Minehead, Somerset
TA24 5BQ
GB

Alarm bells ringing? yes.
Will I buy it? most probably.
Will I winge when it doesn't work? Not a chance.

The're just down the road from you Zenda you just might want to pop in with the inquisition.

How about a thread exposing the real deal, i'm sure that would be more constructive and helpful. especially if you have no financial connection.

 

[kenhetherington]

I applaud Zenda's public spiritedness. Rather than knock him, applaud him. There are plenty of deceptions that are covered by law. Now for instance mortgage misselling, but training seminars are unregulated. I am not saying that all are deceptions, far from it. Some make normal marketing exaggerations, but where gross claims are made that are not based on facts then it is time to act!

It is all well and good for people to say that a "fool and his money are soon parted" but that assumes very few people are guilty of foolish behaviour at some times in their lives. And we all cannot be experts at the beginning. So we rely on the integrity of vendors.

If you pay several thousands for a course, you have every right to expect that you will get the claimed benefits, and that the people running the show have the experience as claimed.

Would all those that knock Zenda, take the same stance if they bought a piece of electronics for £3k and found that it was worth just a few hundreds and that the claimed extras were fantasy. I submit you would be hopping mad.

So lets have some support for John's noble efforts.

 

[jimbo57]

.

 

[kenhetherington]

I am not saying that Jimbo. Anyone should spend all their money wisely. I think it behoves all of us to get corroboration that anyone training are able to deliver good value etc.

I am not commenting on Zenda's products or what he teaches. I have no knowledge of it at all. What I am saying is that he is right to criticise the sort of situations where people are persuaded to shell out a lot of money on the basis of unproven claims.

And he is right to do something positive, rather than just moan as some do.

Not sure what you are saying Ken. Are you saying the fact he charges only £200 or £400 or whatever it is, and not $3k or $4k is OK. That because its only a few hundred pounds the mug punters shouldn't expect too much?

If that is what you are saying, then that is nonesense.

 

[jimbo57]

[.

 

[dc2000]

I am not commenting on Zenda's products or what he teaches. I have no knowledge of it at all. What I am saying is that he is right to criticise the sort of situations where people are persuaded to shell out a lot of money on the basis of unproven claims.

I would be willing to bet that those he is criticising are more able to prove claims than he is of his own claims having looked through other utube posts of his and his website I suspect the telephone conversation he mentioned went more like "doesn't it p@@ you off that others can get hundreds of delegates at £2k+ a head and we can only get a few at £400 ph

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

 

[trendie]

Ken,

the very nature of trading, is that even PROVEN claims are meaningless, because "past performance is no .......". markets can and do change their nature.

most of these courses are classed as "educational", and fall outside of any FSA regulation.

can YOU make a clear definition of what a scam is?
can you define the framework within such courses can be structured into, with respect to standards and checks and balances?

If you cant, this thread will become another vague and insubstantial thousand-post "cant-deal-with-a-loss" Secker-clone. The only difference being this thread has a better sense of the ridiculous, and a better sense of humour. The guys here really know how to stick-it-to-'em.

Do you know what a stop-loss is?

FUR CANAL!!

 

[kenhetherington]

I agree with most of what you said. However I am unwilling for legal reasons to define anyone's style in public as a scam, regardless of what I think.

However despite the rights or wrongs of John's style, he is right to raise the issue of scams (whatever that might mean - and we all know what that is) and right that it needs regulation. And he is right to seek to publicise it.

Regarding your question. I am a successful trader. Does answer you question!

Ken,

the very nature of trading, is that even PROVEN claims are meaningless, because "past performance is no .......". markets can and do change their nature.

most of these courses are classed as "educational", and fall outside of any FSA regulation.

can YOU make a clear definition of what a scam is?
can you define the framework within such courses can be structured into, with respect to standards and checks and balances?

If you cant, this thread will become another vague and insubstantial thousand-post "cant-deal-with-a-loss" Secker-clone. The only difference being this thread has a better sense of the ridiculous, and a better sense of humour. The guys here really know how to stick-it-to-'em.

Do you know what a stop-loss is?

FUR CANAL!!

 

[SOCRATES]

Its Sad But I will let my students talk for me - because of the content in some of the posts I shall again refrain from posting again in this forum - I don't need to.
What they say about the Forex Workshop

John is a fabulous Teacher humerous,easy going, kind, understanding but above all a man of huge integrity with real knowledge THE BEST I HAVE EVER ATTENDED Superb value for money.- George Seago-13th Oct 06

Excellent for beginners NO Bull**** or selling system, just practical down to earth advice, its reasonably priced and will save you a fortune going elswhere!! Neil Prior 13th Oct 06

Very easy to follow. excellent content Very thorough, Fantastic value with all the extras given at the end of the course - FANTASTIC TEACHER!! VERY FREINDLY!! THANK YOU - Mathew S-13th Oct 06

Simply presented and good relaxed atmosphere. Good build up from light start to dealing withg more complex issues Richard Care- 13th Oct 06

The Best course on Forex they can attend - A.M.

As Usual John excellent content, well presented in plain language, no hype, great freebies would recommend you anytime, excellent value – Mike Lucas

Very good course lots of information conveyed clearly. Good common sense. John is very patient with absolute beginners. – Jan Wrigley

A very good course. The practical down to earth approach was particularly welcome. Concepts were put across clearly and the use of a ‘Live’ Trading platform meant that knowledge is easily applied. Good humour and enjoyable throughout. – Chris Gordon

Excellent venue, food was amazing. Very down to earth and realistic, John tells it “Like it is” in an easy to understand format. Great Value – Paul Taylor

Excellent Venue with a tasty choice of snacks/lunch. Certainly preferable to any London Venue. Much appreciated day of Forex information and trading techniques. Good presentation of a complex subject with vital tips and recommendations. – Mike Raines

Initial doubts and fears dissolved about Forex trading. John has a genuine desire to help. I feel I am not alone. John is doing great work and great value – Paul Holman

John is an excellent instructor, explaining Forex in plain English with no BS – Marc Virgo

I came with an open mind and was pleasantly surprised. John you are excellent, the course was explained fully, easy to understand, good visual displays. Amazed at the amount of material we received, this course is well recommended- Barbara Purville

A fun and information packed day with the basics of forex trading explained by a teacher and coach who walks his talk. John’s ability to communicate so many aspects of this fascinating and lucrative subject represents great value for money. A great day – Malcolm Horsey

This is just what I need to extend my portfolio of financial activities. This course kept me awake all day! You have no idea what praise that is. The cost of the course and professional approach is exemplary – John Welburn

I really loved it. I’m a real beginner, I would never imagine that I could enter this fantastic world , thanks John, - Maria Teixlira

Surprised to find that almost anyone can do this, I have now decided that this is for me after a one day course. I will not pay a penny for some of these so called professional systems wonderful way of presenting the course and so easy to understand Good value for money. – Peter Gould

Prior to attending the course I knew nothing about trading. I now feel equipped to pursue this as a possible business venture. I also love the idea of being able to practice trading using the demo sites provided. The course was clear and concise. There was ample information provided to enable a first timer like myself to get off the ground without feeling confused by all the info on the market. Ms C Williams

This is PR NONSENSE.


Every tutor without exception who is able to stimulate the enthusiasm of his students is able to recieve these plaudits, and showers of Xmas cards, and birthday cards and praise, and promises, and asssurances and fawning admiration . This is no big deal. It is to be expected. They are done on the spur of the moment and as a consequence of their excitement at what they have just learnt.

Now, this is not even early days...it is just "birth".

What matters now is the time line.

What matters is what these people will have to say about themselves, their experiences, and their process of maturing as fully fledged traders 8 or 10 years down the line.

Not all of them will make it for different reasons.

But it would be interesting to revisit them and interview them 10 years hence.

The ones that are able to stick at it and remain, that is.:cheesy:

These testimonials rendered immediately after a course has finished are useless.

They only serve to attract more attention, and are frequently used for that purpose because the temptation for the promoters to resist is too great. Therefore they have little or no value.

But what is priceless is when these testimonials survive the test of time, many years after the event, and remain rock solid.:cheesy: despite everything or anything akward twits may say to contradict. and what is more, when the original attendees even though they have specialised in different aspects of market interest, remain united by association, in a very close bond, like a band of brothers....and sisters.

And that is what really matters and not testimonials impulsively delivered on completion of the course, as I have explained above.

 

[jimbo57]

.

 

[SOCRATES]

so you gonna post some of yours socco?

No, I do not use testimonials and never have.

I have the real thing.

I have students who remain loyal and in close contact daily, weekly and not restricted to this country either. Some of them are into their 7th 8th 9th or 10th year having been schooled and mentored by me during all this time.

Tonight, for example I have one of these very special guys flying into Gatwick from another country.

He will stay here in my home as my guest for 2 days.

The reason for his visit is to attend the funeral of our technician who passed away last week after having been terminally ill for some time.

That is what I mean by a band of brothers.

He is not the only one travelling a long distance to fulfil a mission.

They are all like that. I want to publicly record I am very proud of you all, and the ladies too.