Rugby world cup 2007

[JTrader]

What it did do is really show up the fact that rugby is far too technical and lends itself far too much to becoming a kick fest.

Thats why i prefer RL overall - for the greater mix of skill & entertainment - handling, kicking, running etc.

The solution for RU to encourage more attacking play is to reduce penalty & DK rewards from 3 to 2 points IMO.

Although in RL, i think they should increase DK points from 1 to 2 - for symetry - so that DK's & penalties are equal!

 

[yacarob1]

what separates Rugby from say the nancy boys of football is our ability to kick the shti out of each other and then go and have a beer with each other afterwards

Another area in which we agree.

Footballers are spiteful little whingeing nancy boys.

Put them on a rugby pitch and they would promptly sh1t themselves.

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

Anyway enough twaddle...where's the bet ?

I'm playing with free money now, after backing the Argies to beat the French in the opening game at 7/1 (see post 3 if anyone thinks I'm after-timing!). I've just laid the Kiwis at 1.69 on Betfair. Watching them play the Scottish yesterday, it's clear how the enormous passion they have for rugby and the weight of expectation they carry from home can be as much as a liability for them as a positive. Even though it was a second-string team, the Jocks really wound the Kiwis up, and provoked them into some poor play, mistakes, and bad decisions. Okay so it was a 40-0 loss, but for twenty minutes in the second-half there was not a point scored as the Kiwis got suckered into proving a point about the strength of their pack, rather than scoring points.

'Chokers' is a strong term, but I'm not convinced from the matches so far that NZ will rise to the occasion in a big match in the knock-out stages. I've already backed SA to win, and have just put some money on Australia at 10.5 who must be the value-bet of the tournament at this stage, particularly as England in the quarters is a shoe-in for Oz progression to the semis, sad to say.

Chump - Argies are 40 to back and 44 to lay if you want to follow the courage of your convictions!

 

[jacinto]

Another area in which we agree.

Footballers are spiteful little whingeing nancy boys.

Put them on a rugby pitch and they would promptly sh1t themselves.

i now know what you mean. where i come from, rugby simply doesnt exist. football is king.

this summer, during my yearly holiday in biarritz , a friend took me to watch a live rugby match. saw biarritz beat the xx out of bristol (i think). since then i started following it much more, and i am really liking it.

yesterday, was watching the aussies, and flicking to Roma vs Juve (good match by the way). i just kept going back to the rugby. it also made me see how exactly football is for whimps ......i still really like football though

j

 

[JTrader]

Granted, rugby is a lot tougher than football, and a lot of footballers act like babies by diving, crying, etc. etc.

However, i do not fully agree that football is for whimps. Football is actually a pretty tough contact sport - just ask Andy Cole (after Neil ruddock broke both his legs in one tackle).

Compared to rugby, sure, soccer looks soft, but i would argue that rugby is an unneccessarily macho sport, (especially RU).
EG. cauliflower ears. These appear to be a real status symbol in RU.
EG. The scrum. Why not do more of the players involved wear protective scrum caps to save from injuries like cauliflower ears? is it because on some level they want the cauliflower ears due to them being a status symbol :idea: ?, or they so crave attention & recognition, that they do not wish to obscure their appearance/peoples ability to recognise them with obscuring protective kit?

I have heard several ex-rugby players say that some incidents hurt like hell, but the rugby culture did not allow them to express their pain, or eg. anger at the foul play that led to the pain/injury (eg. a player is on the receiving end of a high tackle. The referee invariably will do little about high tackles, and the recipient invariably get up & gets on with it, with little-no complaint . So whats the point in partaking in a sport/activity where the participants feel unable to express their true thoughts/feelings/natural response to things such as pain, for fear of ridicule & the need to stick to a macho code of conduct?

So in a sense, the conduct of rugby players can be quite fake/un-natural.
At least in soccer, players feel able to express their natural responses to things like pain.

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

I wonder how much the IRB has to shell out to include the likes of Namibia, Portugal - LOL - to get them to throw a team together, and practise on their own for 4 years, just to make up the numbers come the WC, and try and make it look like RU is a popular sport across the globe :idea:

Did you see the Georgia v. Ireland game? Georgia has eight rugby pitches and 300 registered players apparently, and came within a gnats of a massive upset. This thing about rugby being massively biased towards the 'big' teams in a way that, say, football, is not, is a bit of a myth, IMO.

As for Portugal - see here for an alternative view: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ma...1YourView&xml=/sport/2007/09/23/srport123.xml

The other teams being along for the ride? Maybe but is football much better? Only seven countries have ever won the FIFA World Cup...

 

[JTrader]

Did you see the Georgia v. Ireland game? .

Thats why i didn't mention Georgia .

 

[chump]

Jack,
That was a good bet on the Argies. Their track record in recent games against the French is enough to tell you they have a style that the French find very difficult. Two reasons for that..the Argie pack (particularly front 5) is now one of the very best and if you get on top of the French in possession through your pack you nullify their strengths with ball in hand. Second ,so many Argies play their Rugby in France that they know them inside out....bear in mind these factors won't be has beneficial against other opposition who have a different style of play to the French. I might also add the French made the wrong selection against the Argies ..a different boot alone would have changed the result.

 

[chump]

JT,
you just don't get it do you !
A true competitor is there to compete..first he's competing with himself and whether he can play better...second ,he's competing with someone else trying to do the same ..he'll either win ,or lose ...either way he first of all looks at how he did and respects what his opponent did and tries to learn how to beat them next time ......what he doesn't do is massage his fri..gin..g ego by diving all over the park to 'win' in a way that says nothing about his skill and performance at the sport and a lot about his dramatic ability.
It's not unlike trading ,or business really ...you 'play' ..you respect your opposition which means you study them ,learn their behaviour and next time you try to kick the shti out of them again..not because it's personal ,but because that's the nature of competition/business and just bear in mind in trading and business there is no ref to save the drama queens although the Fed might try.

 

[JTrader]

JT,
you just don't get it do you !
A true competitor is there to compete..first he's competing with himself and whether he can play better...second ,he's competing with someone else trying to do the same ..he'll either win ,or lose ...either way he first of all looks at how he did and respects what his opponent did and tries to learn how to beat them next time ......what he doesn't do is massage his fri..gin..g ego by diving all over the park to 'win' in a way that says nothing about his skill and performance at the sport and a lot about his dramatic ability.

I've not condoned diving footballers who wish to cheat their way to victory - i think they are a disgrace.

 

[chump]

"So whats the point in partaking in a sport/activity where the participants feel unable to express their true thoughts/feelings/natural response to things such as pain, for fear of ridicule & the need to stick to a macho code of conduct?"

I repeat you do not get it and no explanation would appear to suffice that you will ...so when you next take a trading loss by all mean express it ...if you have problems trading you need look no further than the above for the answer..I'm serious ,your para above contains a wealth of information for you and if you can dig through it you will be a better trader.

 

[JTrader]

"So whats the point in partaking in a sport/activity where the participants feel unable to express their true thoughts/feelings/natural response to things such as pain, for fear of ridicule & the need to stick to a macho code of conduct?"

I repeat you do not get it and no explanation would appear to suffice that you will ...so when you next take a trading loss by all mean express it ...if you have problems trading you need look no further than the above for the answer..I'm serious ,your para above contains a wealth of information for you and if you can dig through it you will be a better trader.

You make a good point with regard to applying that logic to trading/other areas of life - discipline - non-emotion/none over-reaction etc. but with the social freedom so that the participant feels able to react to/embrace the pain to the level that it merits, without inhibition.

But with rugby - eg. a high tackle, players could/should make a lot more of the pain they are feeling. I have seen rugby players get clothes lined, or their head stamped on, obviously be in pain, then they just get up & on with it. THIS IS NOT A NATURAL RESPONSE TO SUCH PAIN. In a way this is good. But in another way, this reduces the likelihood of the referee awarding a penalty/punishing the perpetrator.
In soccer, players take this to the opposite extremer by play-acting in order to gain the penalty/get the opponent punished etc.

WHAT i would like to see in all sport is a reaction (to a foul) that the situation/pain merits, without either an over-reaction or an under-reaction.

In rugby, i suspect that none expression of pain caused by an opponent is done for the reason of not giving the opponent the benefit/advantage/satisfaction of not letting the opponent know they have hurt you - which is good - in the competitive sense. Compared to eg. reactin to a twisted knee through slipping , not being caused by an opponent.

Soccer players have a completely opposite philosophy, and could learn something from rugby players "none-backing down to an opponent" type philosophy - for the benefit of foootball for everyone - referees, spectators, players etc.

 

[chump]

Let me help...the reason why you are wrong is it is about discipline, and controlling your actions in your own interest...the player who makes more of something or reacts without control may find himself penalised and that is not in his ,or his teams best interests ..in trading he is in fact penalising himself....unfortunately discipline and self control are not like clothes...you put them on and take them off when it suits you....you either develop discipline /self control and keep adhering to it's use,or you don't have it..it's that simple...and you better believe it applies to sport and trading in equal measure.

By the way..a straight arm tackle ,or tackle round the throat doesn't take any play acting ..you're too busy trying to breathe

 

[chump]

Talking about this just brought back a great memory of England playing OZ...right on topic..

Matt Rogers committed a foul on Josh Lewsey. Lewsey got up and trotted away. Later in the game Rogers took a pass on the wing and Lewsey came speeding up and hit him with a tackle that nearly cut Rogers in half AND it was a perfectly legal textbook tackle.
In fact it's one of the hardest tackles I've ever seen given the relative weights of the guys involved. Now that's how you respond .

Zidane should have played out of his skin and beaten the Italians in the world cup after greaseball mouthed him..that would have been the perfect reply and failing that he could have just waited until after the game and banjoed him...instead he did what ?.. and the rest is history.

 

[JTrader]

Talking about this just brought back a great memory of England playing OZ...right on topic..

Matt Rogers committed a foul on Josh Lewsey. Lewsey got up and trotted away. Later in the game Rogers took a pass on the wing and Lewsey came speeding up and hit him with a tackle that nearly cut Rogers in half AND it was a perfectly legal textbook tackle.
In fact it's one of the hardest tackles I've ever seen given the relative weights of the guys involved. Now that's how you respond .

Zidane should have played out of his skin and beaten the Italians in the world cup after greaseball mouthed him..that would have been the perfect reply and failing that he could have just waited until after the game and banjoed him...instead he did what ?.. and the rest is history.

Good examples.

 

[PKFFW]

Well it looks like Larkam is out for at least the next two matches with his knee surgery getting infected! Might even be out for the rest of the cup. That will make things very difficult for us. We should still win those next two games but if we do he really needs some game time before the semi final against the All Blacks.(most likely)

Berrick Barnes is doing very well in his first couple of games but it is a huge step up taking on the All Blacks. Not sure if he is up to it. Guess time will tell.

Australia has always struggled with a lack of depth. Hopefully we can use this set back to fire up!

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[chump]

"a lack of depth"...as I have said earlier in the thread I don't think North understands how RU is only about what 4th game in Oz and it's not 'rich' ? You could even say those that can't play rules/cricket ,or League well enough play RU...LOL forgot about the swimmers and golfers so maybe 6th in rank. Not withstanding surfing ,croc hunting etc .

The lad did well the other game. Let's put it this way I wish England had him
I'd like to see OZ go on to meet the AB's. The tournament and the public need that game. For me it would be the final in the sense I'd see the best two attacking teams in the world go head to head on a big occasion. It would be a two bottle of red match which is the highest compliment I can pay it.

 

[PKFFW]

"a lack of depth"...as I have said earlier in the thread I don't think North understands how RU is only about what 4th game in Oz and it's not 'rich' ? You could even say those that can't play rules/cricket ,or League well enough play RU...LOL forgot about the swimmers and golfers so maybe 6th in rank. Not withstanding surfing ,croc hunting etc .

The lad did well the other game. Let's put it this way I wish England had him
I'd like to see OZ go on to meet the AB's. The tournament and the public need that game. For me it would be the final in the sense I'd see the best two attacking teams in the world go head to head on a big occasion. It would be a two bottle of red match which is the highest compliment I can pay it.

RU is definitely the 4th ranked ball game here in Oz. Such a pity really as we were riding a huge wave of enthusiasm and success after '99 and '03 world cups. Then O'Neill left and we got Flowers in charge and somehow they managed to stuff it all up, waste $20mil and run the game into the ground both on and off field! Not sure we will ever get back, though having O'Neill back in charge is a good start. So is the new ARC if the old boys club behind the scenes can just back it and give it a go rather than being scared it might erode some of their power!

I'm looking forward to the Aus V AB game too if we can make it. I think we will and I think it should be a great game. We always lift when we play the AB's and I think Gregan is just itching to say those immortal words again......."Four more years boys! Four more years!" hehehe Best sledge I've ever heard.....so simple, so sweet.

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[chump]

LOL...did I also mention the Ozies are the best wind up merchants in the game bar none ! I think Campeses must still be training them in that skill.

 

[yacarob1]

Good performance by England against Tonga but Australia will be a different story I feel.