Rugby world cup 2007

wasp

Legendary member
5,107 877
Damn patriotism....

Why I would make bets that england would do better than the Kiwi's is beyond me... just cause we were lucky last time around! Oh well, go England!!!!

In reality, I think its the Kiwis or South Africa's cup this time around.......
 

jacinto

Senior member
2,374 101
Damn patriotism....

Why I would make bets that england would do better than the Kiwi's is beyond me... just cause we were lucky last time around! Oh well, go England!!!!

In reality, I think its the Kiwis or South Africa's cup this time around.......
for the same reason you pay what you pay for bad food :cheesy:

for the same reason real estate is overpriced in the UK :cheesy:

and for that reason you went to live to Kiwiland :cheesy:

hope you are well.

j
 

Jack o'Clubs

Experienced member
1,554 342
Damn patriotism....

Why I would make bets that england would do better than the Kiwi's is beyond me... just cause we were lucky last time around! Oh well, go England!!!!

In reality, I think its the Kiwis or South Africa's cup this time around.......
Heart says England, head says Oz.

But odds on either not attractive, so betting man backs South Africa, lays New Zealand and backs Argentina now to lay them off later as they embarass the French on Friday... Oh well, we'll see...
 

chump

Senior member
2,212 274
Off this weekend to watch the first round matches.
Seedings on current form should be ;
NZ
SA,FR
AUS
IRE

It is not inconceivable that England won't get past the first round. Clearly I would take SA to beat them on aggregate and if we don't raise our game from recent levels we might well get turned over by Samoa. It used to be the case that we could wear them down and after 50/60 mins their defence would tire and we would run out in relative comfort as winners. So many of these guys now play their rugby abroad that the fitness issue is no longer has evident as it was so I expect it to be tighter than we would like and if it tips the wrong way we'll be out.
In any case the odds are for a qtrs exit latest. We're paying the price for not doing what should have been done straight after the last world cup and it's a bit late in the day I think to do more than a patch up job for this event. I feel for Jack because he really does not have the same depth of class of player as we had 4 years ago and he's not had enough time and continuity free of injury to forge what we do have into a solid team of journeymen who play their socks off for each other.
Early bath expected.
 

yacarob1

Experienced member
1,471 181
I believe that if we come second in our group ( and that is a big if ) we will more than likely play Oz in the quarters in which case we would have somewhat less than no chance at all.

I believe that England are paying the price for excessive self congratulation after their fluke win 4 years ago, very similar to the England cricket team and their fluke Ashes victory a year or three ago.

At least there's not much chance for the England football team to indulge in self congratulation..they never win anything except piles of money as a reward for being losers. Better they lose to Israel and get the pain over early rather than let the whole thing drag out.
 

chump

Senior member
2,212 274
It wasn't a fluke win..anything but. We'd had years of preparation to forge a side that was supremely confident/ fit, cohesive , and tactically could play to a style that denied the oppostion the ball to such a degree that winning against us required a team of highly skilled try scorers on the top of their game..not something that teams can pullout everyday and the world cup simply confirmed that. We also had a 'boot' that was worth at least 9 points a game over and above the average kicker on aggregate.Put the two together and we were playing high probability rugby which is why it was no surprise to the other teams playing that we won.

Contrast that with where we are now and it is simply a tribute to a manner in which clubs and the games rulers have managed to sabotage the greater good of the national game.Add in an inability to replace quality with similar quality for retirements , long term injuries to other quality not yet restored to former achievement levels and you get mediocrity in terms of 'world class' . Throw in poor decisions making appointments after the last cup and you have....living proof of Murphy's Law.
 

JTrader

Guest
5,741 506
Had the last WC been played in 2002, Englad would have won it easy, as thats when that side was at its peak & flying high. They just managed to squeeze it in in time in 2003, but the game by game points tallies had been declining over the year leading up to it.
 

yacarob1

Experienced member
1,471 181
It wasn't a fluke win..anything but. We'd had years of preparation to forge a side that was supremely confident/ fit, cohesive , and tactically could play to a style that denied the oppostion the ball to such a degree that winning against us required a team of highly skilled try scorers on the top of their game..not something that teams can pullout everyday and the world cup simply confirmed that. We also had a 'boot' that was worth at least 9 points a game over and above the average kicker on aggregate.Put the two together and we were playing high probability rugby which is why it was no surprise to the other teams playing that we won.
Maybe you are right but the indisputable thing about England in the last WC is that they played boring old English style cauliflower-eared rugby, because they did not have the flair and talent to play exciting expansive rugby like the Southern Hemisphere countries.

And it has become worse and worse ever since.
 

chump

Senior member
2,212 274
'beauty' is in the eye of the beholder.... Rugby at a winning level is about bringing together a set of skills ,experience and tactics that utilise the former. For those who appreciate that and the tactical nature of the game we played 15 man rugby of 'beauty'. For people who think the best team,the most 'beautiful' rugby, is simply the one who scores the most tries,well we will never see eye to eye in that respect. Arguably England of 4/5 years ago were playing AllBlack 15 man rugby from 30 to 40 years ago.It's very noticeable that the AB's changed their emphasis from allout 12man freeflowing rugby after that to bring the front 8 back more into their style of play.
Denying the opposition the ball by relying on the strengths and superiority of your front 8 is an integral part of the game. We had it then and we don't have it now and we are struggling because of it...in essence we have lost our 'edge' and indeed other teams have now 'worked us out' tactically from that time.
 

JTrader

Guest
5,741 506
I agree that England were as boring as hell winning the last WC, and things ain't much prettier since. With the best player (J Rob) retiring from Rugby after this WC, and other ageing illustrious players likely to follow soon such ad LDal & AFar, you have to question if they have any hunger to do well.....
 

yacarob1

Experienced member
1,471 181
Rugby at a winning level is about bringing together a set of skills ,experience and tactics that utilise the former. For those who appreciate that and the tactical nature of the game we played 15 man rugby of 'beauty'. For people who think the best team,the most 'beautiful' rugby, is simply the one who scores the most tries,well we will never see eye to eye in that respect. Arguably England of 4/5 years ago were playing AllBlack 15 man rugby from 30 to 40 years ago.It's very noticeable that the AB's changed their emphasis from allout 12man freeflowing rugby after that to bring the front 8 back more into their style of play.
Denying the opposition the ball by relying on the strengths and superiority of your front 8 is an integral part of the game. We had it then and we don't have it now and we are struggling because of it...in essence we have lost our 'edge' and indeed other teams have now 'worked us out' tactically from that time.
Technically you are quite correct in what you say.

But personally, I watch sport for the sheer excitement and exhilaration of it and the England rugby team just does not excite me.

Same with the England cricket team and most of all the England football team.

Not to mention the Davis Cup Team.

Maybe the England Crossword team could deliver the goods, who knows !!!!!!
 

tafita

Guest
191 23
Some well informed and interesting points. England were simply unbeatable anywhere in the world and in any weather conditions before the last world cup, since then a lack of creative flair in the backline coupled with the points raised so far and a win of only 3 games away from Twickenham since the last WC has contributed to the lack readiness for this years competition. Personally, I do not rate Farell and Dallalio is not match fit. Why Andy Robinson did not decide on a solid team of newbies and get them game time and caps enough at the end of the last WC is beyond me. Ashton has a tough job as has already been said. Berkley needs to step up to the plate and start making the right decisions under pressure which so far he has been unable to due to lack of experience. I do not want to rubbish England as I am a fan and too much of it has been going on in the press lately which has not helped them prepare this time around. Winning consistently can be boring hence the boring style of rugby they were criticized for in the past. Let us support them in their endevours to defend a cup that no team has ever successfully defended.

Regards

Tafita
 

yacarob1

Experienced member
1,471 181
Let us support them in their endevours to defend a cup that no team has ever successfully defended.
After yesterday's performance against the USA, I think we can safely assume that they will not successfully defend the World Cup.

They were inadequate, unexciting, lacking flair and miserably boring.

I cannot support this team.

Bring on the All Blacks and OZ.
 

yacarob1

Experienced member
1,471 181
Ladbrokes have England at 9-2 to beat South Africa and South Africa at 1-8 to beat England.

That is some difference in a 2 horse race and truly reflects just how bad England have become.
 

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