Richard Hill Forex Net Trap

[peterf1966]

Hi Peter

I can hardly contain my excitement on getting in to the tax effects on trading

Anyway, I think that most people are aware that gains on gambling are tax free as a general rule and this includes spreadbetting.

I think that this point is included in the literature of most systems that are touted around including FNT.

However, lets assume that all goes well and FNT means that we can all give up work and focus on full time trading (spread betting) then at this point the gains become taxable.

It seems that the advice would be that even if you make a lot of money spread betting then you should maintain another income, even if that income is much smaller than the amount being earned through spreadbetting. In these circumstances the spreadbetting income will remain tax free, I think on the basis that HMRC would not dare to challenge it for fear of opening the floodgates on people wishing to claim tax relief for losses on gambling / spreadbetting.

The other thing to be aware of is that if you ever offer to manage someone elses cash by 'investing' it in FNT or any other form of spreadbetting then the income from that would be taxable as it would be deemed as a trade.

Assuming that you are still awake Peter after reeding the waffle above, I'd be interested in any comments.

Cheers

Phil

... what !! eh!!

Oh yes. Thanks Phil..this is similar to what some traders at Knowledge 2 Action told me, they did their job at K2A because they enjoyed it, AND to keep the taxman of the scent!
Offering to manage someone esles investment...one for the professionals, lots of legal implications with the FSA I would think - let alone tax ones!

 

[Wagtail]

tax is really intresting subject, more please.

Don't say you didn't ask for it!

From a specialist trading tax website...

Tax Question:

I want to start spread betting as a full time job, could you tell me the best way to arrange the taxes? is the income from spread betting going to be taxable? do i need to have a part time job? thank you for reply

Answer:

Gambling winnings aren't usually subject to UK tax. They are usually fully exempt from UK income tax, national insurance and Capital Gains Tax ('CGT'). Spread betting profits are classed as gambling income.

The only circumstance that gambling income could be taxed under the current legislation is if you were treated as a trader. However in practice the Revenue would not treat you as a trader even if you had no other taxable income and the circumstances where you could be a trader are very limited and are difficult to apply.

You should therefore be exempt from UK tax on the spread betting profits generated in your own name. You would not need to have a part time job.

 

[Nickpip]

Hi All,

I'm relatively new to forex, and I've spent all day reading most of this thread. I've managed, by piecing together what people have given away, what the system involves. It is obviously clear that the basic version is no longer effective. So it seems that improvements come from smaller profit targets and entering immediately at the trigger time rather than setting the pending order. So, I'm after some advice. Am I better off 1. buying forexmorningtrade, which it seems is getting excellent results, as the creator seems to adapt the strategy to current market conditions, or 2.buy Net Trap so that I can gain access to the private forum to benefit from the hard work done by members in there. My problem with this is that I will be paying someone for a system that i already know just to gain access to others work, but they won't see any of the money, which doesn't seem right, or 3. don't buy either and just backtest net trap with different profit targets to work it out for myself, with the obvious downside that it will cost me a huge amount of my time.

Can anyone who has experience of net trap or forexmorningtrade or both offer me any advice on which is my best course of action.

Thanks,

Nick.

 

[mark120169]

Hi All,

I'm relatively new to forex, and I've spent all day reading most of this thread. I've managed, by piecing together what people have given away, what the system involves. It is obviously clear that the basic version is no longer effective. So it seems that improvements come from smaller profit targets and entering immediately at the trigger time rather than setting the pending order. So, I'm after some advice. Am I better off 1. buying forexmorningtrade, which it seems is getting excellent results, as the creator seems to adapt the strategy to current market conditions, or 2.buy Net Trap so that I can gain access to the private forum to benefit from the hard work done by members in there. My problem with this is that I will be paying someone for a system that i already know just to gain access to others work, but they won't see any of the money, which doesn't seem right, or 3. don't buy either and just backtest net trap with different profit targets to work it out for myself, with the obvious downside that it will cost me a huge amount of my time.

Can anyone who has experience of net trap or forexmorningtrade or both offer me any advice on which is my best course of action.

Thanks,

Nick.

I have FMT but have not yet traded it or looked at it. From what I know FMT is INT40/40 but uses it's own indicators different to FNT.

I beleive both open @ 6.30 and close @ 8.30am and FMT has an EA as standard.

We also now use some different indicators for FNT too, but no the FMT ones.

I have heard FMT broke even in January 2011 ? I made +200 pips with FNT variants and our official best trading variant (we have over 30 to chose from) which a lot of people trade made about +110 pips for Jan 2011 completely set and forget, managed fully buy our FNT Trader EA. You dont even have to get mout of bed, just leave the PC running overnight.

You must have the manual to get onto the FNT private forum, and you can always make a thank you beer donation to us if you like the work!

If you tell me the months results for FMT I will tell you our best results that compete with it. But I beleive ours was the only one of two GBP/USD systems to make profit in January 2011 qnd also the most profitable, especially for a morning trade only.

M

 

[mark120169]

I have FMT but have not yet traded it or looked at it. From what I know FMT is INT40/40 but uses it's own indicators different to FNT.

I beleive both open @ 6.30 and close @ 8.30am and FMT has an EA as standard.

We also now use some different indicators for FNT too, but no the FMT ones.

I have heard FMT broke even in January 2011 ? I made +200 pips with FNT variants and our official best trading variant (we have over 30 to chose from) which a lot of people trade made about +110 pips for Jan 2011 completely set and forget, managed fully buy our FNT Trader EA. You dont even have to get mout of bed, just leave the PC running overnight.

You must have the manual to get onto the FNT private forum, and you can always make a thank you beer donation to us if you like the work!

If you tell me the months results for FMT I will tell you our best results that compete with it. But I beleive ours was the only one of two GBP/USD systems to make profit in January 2011 qnd also the most profitable, especially for a morning trade only.

M

edit. Of course If once you buy FNT you don't think it's woking / worth the money you can return it for a refund within 60 days I think. I think FMT is cheap enough not to offer this?

 

[Nickpip]

I have FMT but have not yet traded it or looked at it. From what I know FMT is INT40/40 but uses it's own indicators different to FNT.

I beleive both open @ 6.30 and close @ 8.30am and FMT has an EA as standard.

We also now use some different indicators for FNT too, but no the FMT ones.

I have heard FMT broke even in January 2011 ? I made +200 pips with FNT variants and our official best trading variant (we have over 30 to chose from) which a lot of people trade made about +110 pips for Jan 2011 completely set and forget, managed fully buy our FNT Trader EA. You dont even have to get mout of bed, just leave the PC running overnight.

You must have the manual to get onto the FNT private forum, and you can always make a thank you beer donation to us if you like the work!

If you tell me the months results for FMT I will tell you our best results that compete with it. But I beleive ours was the only one of two GBP/USD systems to make profit in January 2011 qnd also the most profitable, especially for a morning trade only.

M

Thanks for your response Mark. Yes, the standard version lost in Jan and Dec, but there have been some great months, like June and July at 400 pips each, and Oct at 200. (www.forexmorningtrade.com/results). However, in the same way that Net trap has been tweaked, from reading the forum, fmt has too, with different stops and targets along with variable entry times to optimise results. It seems there is no set closing time as there is with net trap. Also there is an upgrade ea ,with a separate thread on here, where stops can be trailed, and partial profits taken along the way. so, looks like lots of variations on both systems. Looks like I've got some more research to do!

Cheers,

Nick.

 

[mark120169]

Thanks for your response Mark. Yes, the standard version lost in Jan and Dec, but there have been some great months, like June and July at 400 pips each, and Oct at 200. (www.forexmorningtrade.com/results). However, in the same way that Net trap has been tweaked, from reading the forum, fmt has too, with different stops and targets along with variable entry times to optimise results. It seems there is no set closing time as there is with net trap. Also there is an upgrade ea ,with a separate thread on here, where stops can be trailed, and partial profits taken along the way. so, looks like lots of variations on both systems. Looks like I've got some more research to do!

Cheers,

Nick.

Good results in the past are a system vendors bread an butter. You can never trade them and they may never happen again.

What is more important is what are you acheiving last month as such. Plus we are not sytem vendors, we are just the system traders so have our own profit motivation in maintaining performance.

All the tweaks mentioned on FMT could be done on FNT. Nothing forces you to close @ 8.30am, but as has been proved it can lead to some nasty loses if London wants to play with GU after 8am every morning.

M

p.s. Also as we are ahead in 2011 so far I am happy to have a performance competition with FMT for 2011. I am on +285 as of today for 2011.

 

[phil8]

Don't say you didn't ask for it!

From a specialist trading tax website...

Tax Question:

I want to start spread betting as a full time job, could you tell me the best way to arrange the taxes? is the income from spread betting going to be taxable? do i need to have a part time job? thank you for reply

Answer:

Gambling winnings aren't usually subject to UK tax. They are usually fully exempt from UK income tax, national insurance and Capital Gains Tax ('CGT'). Spread betting profits are classed as gambling income.

The only circumstance that gambling income could be taxed under the current legislation is if you were treated as a trader. However in practice the Revenue would not treat you as a trader even if you had no other taxable income and the circumstances where you could be a trader are very limited and are difficult to apply.

You should therefore be exempt from UK tax on the spread betting profits generated in your own name. You would not need to have a part time job.

Hi Wagtail

I think the best advice here is that no one knows for sure.

This is only my interpretation of my research but it would seem that if you don't have any other employment and purely trade full time then you would be liable to tax.

However the reality is that the person trading would not declare the income and if challenged argue that it is income from gambling and therfore tax free under UK tax law.

HMRC could argue this and say that you have made profits from a trade but the reality is that they are unlikely to take the chance for fear of opening the flood gates to those who trade and make losses (whether they have another income or not) as they would be requesting an offset of losses against other income.

Essentially I think it would be up to HMRC as to whether they wanted to challenge.

My approach would be to keep some form of alternative income (even part time) to avoid being challenged.

Phil

 

[Wagtail]

Hi Wagtail

I think the best advice here is that no one knows for sure.

This is only my interpretation of my research but it would seem that if you don't have any other employment and purely trade full time then you would be liable to tax.

However the reality is that the person trading would not declare the income and if challenged argue that it is income from gambling and therfore tax free under UK tax law.

HMRC could argue this and say that you have made profits from a trade but the reality is that they are unlikely to take the chance for fear of opening the flood gates to those who trade and make losses (whether they have another income or not) as they would be requesting an offset of losses against other income.

Essentially I think it would be up to HMRC as to whether they wanted to challenge.

My approach would be to keep some form of alternative income (even part time) to avoid being challenged.

Phil

Hi Phil,

I've read that HMRC have made challenges to people in the past at a local tax office level, but as you say, fear of opening the floodgates to those many net losers who can offset their losses will always force them to back down. My accountant is happy with the tax free status of SB, but although I trade full time Mon-Fri, I also work a day job on Saturdays and NFP Friday, to keep an income so that I can still fill in a tax return. My feeling is that dropping to zero income will ask for attention from them, and who needs the hassle even if things would get resolved in the end.

W.

 

[Nickpip]

Good results in the past are a system vendors bread an butter. You can never trade them and they may never happen again.

What is more important is what are you acheiving last month as such. Plus we are not sytem vendors, we are just the system traders so have our own profit motivation in maintaining performance.

All the tweaks mentioned on FMT could be done on FNT. Nothing forces you to close @ 8.30am, but as has been proved it can lead to some nasty loses if London wants to play with GU after 8am every morning.

M

p.s. Also as we are ahead in 2011 so far I am happy to have a performance competition with FMT for 2011. I am on +285 as of today for 2011.

Great start to the year then! For a true performance competition though,maybe you should compare results to the variations of the FMT system rather than the basic. I read on the thread that one guy was posting his trades on zulutrade as he was doing so well, and had tons of followers.

Maybe see you in the private forum soon.

Cheers,

Nick.

 

[Nickpip]

Just to add, if the 100 ema is broken by any of the wicks of the candles in the time period outlined by the net trap manual, then this is also a No Trade.
If you reduce your profit target slightly, this will also improve you're monthly pips.

Hi HHiggins,

Intrigued by your use of the 100ema as an extra filter. Have you found that this has increased your profits significantly?

Cheers,

Nick.

 

[mark120169]

Great start to the year then! For a true performance competition though,maybe you should compare results to the variations of the FMT system rather than the basic. I read on the thread that one guy was posting his trades on zulutrade as he was doing so well, and had tons of followers.

Maybe see you in the private forum soon.

Cheers,

Nick.

Do you have a link to the fmt variants thread?

M

 

[mark120169]

Yipee the Tax man can sing for his cash!

M

Don't say you didn't ask for it!

From a specialist trading tax website...

Tax Question:

I want to start spread betting as a full time job, could you tell me the best way to arrange the taxes? is the income from spread betting going to be taxable? do i need to have a part time job? thank you for reply

Answer:

Gambling winnings aren't usually subject to UK tax. They are usually fully exempt from UK income tax, national insurance and Capital Gains Tax ('CGT'). Spread betting profits are classed as gambling income.

The only circumstance that gambling income could be taxed under the current legislation is if you were treated as a trader. However in practice the Revenue would not treat you as a trader even if you had no other taxable income and the circumstances where you could be a trader are very limited and are difficult to apply.

You should therefore be exempt from UK tax on the spread betting profits generated in your own name. You would not need to have a part time job.

 

[Almontana73]

Hi mate , I got in the private forum last week and I can only say the support is amazing . Any problem then one of the guys will help ! To me that's invaluable , so if the other system can't offer this backup then I'd go for FNT if I were you!
I'm still testing the system and now I have the other variants I'm sure it will make better returns .
Good luck mate

 

[ritzn75]

Thats great!!

I am just waiting for my approval. Have answered the questions.

See you there soon

Hi mate , I got in the private forum last week and I can only say the support is amazing . Any problem then one of the guys will help ! To me that's invaluable , so if the other system can't offer this backup then I'd go for FNT if I were you!
I'm still testing the system and now I have the other variants I'm sure it will make better returns .
Good luck mate

 

[mark120169]

Thanks for your response Mark. Yes, the standard version lost in Jan and Dec, but there have been some great months, like June and July at 400 pips each, and Oct at 200. (www.forexmorningtrade.com/results). However, in the same way that Net trap has been tweaked, from reading the forum, fmt has too, with different stops and targets along with variable entry times to optimise results. It seems there is no set closing time as there is with net trap. Also there is an upgrade ea ,with a separate thread on here, where stops can be trailed, and partial profits taken along the way. so, looks like lots of variations on both systems. Looks like I've got some more research to do!

Cheers,

Nick.

Nick, FYI a copy of a post I just did on our private forum comapring our best variant in 2010 to the FMT 2010 results. And we made more profit! Can't vouch for the tweaked FMT's though as I have seen no data. We have data logged for every valid trade for 2010 x 30 variations so we know our results are accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob the bank
Forex Morning Trade Results:
Month Profit in pips
Jan 10 160
Feb 10 80
Mar 10 200
Apr 10 80
May 10 160
Jun 10 400
Jul 10 400
Aug 10 41
Sep 10 149
Oct 10 200
Nov 10 54
Dec 10 -177

SL 40 & TP 40 how does this compare with Forex Net Trap?

Ok as we know these results blow VNT out of the water, but then this is a different sytem and much more like our INT , using INT40/40 as such. I make the FMT total for 2010 to be 1747 @ 2.67% risk.

We also know a 40 stop is 2.67% risk , we also know that out INT 40/30 AI RT made +1809 in 2010 @ 2.67% risk (see my AI thread). So basically this out performed FMT.

We also know that our current best performer INT30/30 AI RT made +1467 in 2010 @ 2% risk. So to get then to the same risk we either divided INT by 0.75 or times FMT by 0.75.

So here they are like for like for 2010. As neither FNT, FMT or INT was tradable in 2009 no point in that comapison IHMO.

2% Risk per trade

INT 30/30 AI RT +1467 for 2010 @ 2% risk.

FMT 1747 @ 2.67% = (1747 x 0.75) = 1310 @ 2% risk.

or

2.67% risk per trade

FMT +1747 @ 2.67% (40 stop)

INT 30/30 AI RT +1467 @ 2% risk = (1467 / 0.75) = 1956 @ 2.67% risk.

And also as FMT has made a loss in Janauary too so far conclusive proof that with the right settings and indis we have a more profitable variant then (V)FMT .

M

 

[mark120169]

Hi mate , I got in the private forum last week and I can only say the support is amazing . Any problem then one of the guys will help ! To me that's invaluable , so if the other system can't offer this backup then I'd go for FNT if I were you!
I'm still testing the system and now I have the other variants I'm sure it will make better returns .
Good luck mate

Glad you like it.

M

 

[mark120169]

Thats great!!

I am just waiting for my approval. Have answered the questions.

See you there soon

I see you are in now. Happy reading.

M

 

[mark120169]

Hi Peter

I can hardly contain my excitement on getting in to the tax effects on trading

Anyway, I think that most people are aware that gains on gambling are tax free as a general rule and this includes spreadbetting.

I think that this point is included in the literature of most systems that are touted around including FNT.

However, lets assume that all goes well and FNT means that we can all give up work and focus on full time trading (spread betting) then at this point the gains become taxable.

It seems that the advice would be that even if you make a lot of money spread betting then you should maintain another income, even if that income is much smaller than the amount being earned through spreadbetting. In these circumstances the spreadbetting income will remain tax free, I think on the basis that HMRC would not dare to challenge it for fear of opening the floodgates on people wishing to claim tax relief for losses on gambling / spreadbetting.

The other thing to be aware of is that if you ever offer to manage someone elses cash by 'investing' it in FNT or any other form of spreadbetting then the income from that would be taxable as it would be deemed as a trade.

Assuming that you are still awake Peter after reeding the waffle above, I'd be interested in any comments.

Cheers

Phil

Phil did you actually talk to a Tax man about this ??

 

[mark120169]

Bump Again

Weekly Bump for this for anyone who want's into the private forum.

Yes my tip is Join the private forum asap. Details below. Wait until you have the manual in your hands though, without it you wont be able to answer the security question.

For those finding there way here via google and wish to join the new private forum where all the action is. Joining instructions if you own a copy of Forex Net Trap.


1) go here to this link ;

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/members-private-forums/

2) You will see a list of private forums, starting with "Real Live Trading" , 2nd from the bottom is ours "Forex Net Trap" the text looks like this ;

Forex Net Trap (XX Viewing)
A private forum for the discussion of Forex Net Trap.
Request access "here" if you wish to join.

3) On the "Request access "here" if you wish to join" click on the "here" link.

4) Forex Net Trap Members is the third one down (Fourth is Forex Signal Providers, please don't apply to join that one). To the right of each Forum name is a column that says "join" and a circle that if you click will turn into a blue dot.

Once you have the blue dot go to the bottom of the screen and in the centre is another button that says"Join Group" .

Click this, then you get another screen where you can leave a cheery polite message and click another button, but I cant remember now what that is called so if you fail this last bit you are beyond help!

5) After you have done this send a PM to SA Trader and request the security question for entry.

6) Once you have received the security question reply to SA Trader in a PM with the answer then wait a few days and you should have access. Both SA Trader and myself have full time jobs so please be patient.

M