Recommend me a mentor

[Pazienza]

Did you actually look at Bison's December statement Pazienza? That is proof. Now if you can provide proof about the deposit that would be good. In any case, even if he made one bad trade it doesn't invalidate that December statement. It's clearly a list of successive and successful forex and commodities trades. Show me any trader who hasn't made several bad trades.

No, I said that I didn't know anything about the episode, I was just going on what Black Swan said. For what it's worth, I think he's telling the truth. Plus it makes sense.

Now have some more Biohazard motherf***er!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUsqQnxg9K0

 

[counter_violent]

I have mentored newbies in the past with varying degrees of success, or to be accurate - failure on their part. What I have found to be amongst the most common traits/experiences of a newbie with respect to mentoring is;

a. The mentor can only teach what he knows...general mentoring is fine but the student is usually looking for is a shortcut and an immediate trading edge, whereas it would be better for them to learn all the basics and build/develop their own that suits their individual preferences/tolerances/needs etc...
b. Almost without exception I have found that the student is unwilling/unable to put in the required amount of work/screen time and prefers a trading edge being handed to them and live trading to start straight away.
c. Students generally have no idea what a trading edge is and what it can and can't do ...it can take years to fully accept this beyond an acedemic understanding of it. Consequently developing the psychological edge necessary to trade can also take longer than they understand.
d. Most fail and most are lazy....I am sure that that the former is partly because of the later.

Recently I had some one sit with me during a trading session and they were very surprised at the work that goes into determining a trade selection, let alone the preparation before a trading session starts, and the waiting for a suitable set-up to develop. they admitted that my style of trdaing would not suit them. I tried to get them to understand that my particular trading edge aside, that most of the work is in preparation and then waiting. Every few minutes they would say 'what about that one' or what about this one' just desperate to be involved in the market, and I could see their growing boredom and frustration with my systematic and methodical approach and my patience. They were viewing my patience at sitting out half formed set-ups as some kind of bottling out, particularly when they went in the right direction, and could not understand that I waited for over 2hrs to take the first trade of the day (it was that kind of day.)

To the OP: Good Luck with your search

Excellent post...lets hope the newbie takes this in although somehow I doubt it will land.

 

[Pazienza]

Excellent post...lets hope the newbie takes this in although somehow I doubt it will land.

It will do one day CV, the market or the bookies will make sure of that.

 

[noobietrader]

Pazienza:

Now that's a musician!

 

[Pazienza]

Widdly widdly!

Pazienza:

Now that's a musician!

 

[DashRiprock]

I posted this in answer to another question but the same applies here and what Dash is basically saying is this:

- Open a demo account, throw a load of indicators on your chart, trade, make some money

- Open a live account with your new found trading wisdom, lose all your money

- Re-invest, lose all your money again

- Go back to a demo account, read a load of trading books, hang around forums to learn all you can

- Open a live account again with all your knowledge of the markets, lose all your money... again

- Go back to a demo account and learn to really trade, properly, with everything you know, stop hanging around in forums where everything clouds your mind and just use the skills you have learnt over the past 3- 4 YEARS

- Open a live account again and trade with skill, patience, a good all round awareness of the markets and why they do what they do, make some money, slowly build an account

- Come back to forums and make **** posts like this one

it don;t matter what way you pick, really, if you just bl00dy stick with it. then, the magic ingredient is to learn about YOUR trading not SOMEONE ELSES. you need experience to cultuvate your edge. and you dont get experience all in one go like You get it bit by bit innit!!! :whistling

so obviously put the feelers out to find a way you won't doubt when losing. that is important. and then have enough of your account to lose and not go mad cos its too much for you while you are still trading and learning about the trades you are taking. The edge you get is partly in YOU and you need to REFLECT on what YOU ARE DOING to FIND IT bruv.

obviously you can do lots of practical things to help you like Masturbate, Exercise and then have Breakfast each morning, and have like set trading routines and things, all that stuff helps you to do the part of learning from yourself.

 

[Shikamaroo]

Pazienza. Has it occurred to you that perhaps a successful trader MIGHT actually enjoy teaching? Yikes! Do you think members of Trader_Dante's live room are paying him a monthly fee so they can lose money? Why would they stay unless their gains make it worthwhile?

well if u already all know this, y u askin? just give Trader Dante your money and join his room.

But, as far as I know all mentors say the same thing "individual results may vary". The most important one though "No course is a guarantee of success". I think some 95% of course takers probably still fail.

Aye allyuh nubies real great. Ah million man on the board say dont give mentors money. Nobody profitable say do it, but u still waiting to find one to give your money to. Don't worry though, in time everyone changes their perspective!

 

[JahDave]

well if u already all know this, y u askin? just give Trader Dante your money and join his room.

But, as far as I know all mentors say the same thing "individual results may vary". The most important one though "No course is a guarantee of success". I think some 95% of course takers probably still fail.

Aye allyuh nubies real great. Ah million man on the board say dont give mentors money. Nobody profitable say do it, but u still waiting to find one to give your money to. Don't worry though, in time everyone changes their perspective!

The only thing I have ever spent money on has been books. Although it took me 4 years to become profitable, I am very glad I did it that way. I would never spend the thousands that most of these guys want to take their courses, because it is obvious that if they are selling courses then they can't trade. If they were great traders then they would be mentoring for free, just to give back.............

 

[Sang Froid]

The only thing I have ever spent money on has been books. Although it took me 4 years to become profitable, I am very glad I did it that way. I would never spend the thousands that most of these guys want to take their courses, because it is obvious that if they are selling courses then they can't trade. If they were great traders then they would be mentoring for free, just to give back.............

Totally agree, I also see the losses I made in the early years as par for the course and money well spent. Fee's of learning if you like. Couple of blown accounts, few hundred quid here and there but well worth it in the long run. Would rather have lost that money my way, by learning how not to trade than giving it to some crackpot calling himself a mentor who also can't trade.

 

[Shikamaroo]

Same thing i did Sang Froid, though I guess I have to thank those trading mentors who spammed me the knowledge about trading opportunities in the first place. @Jah Dave- hope i get profitable like u.

 

[JahDave]

Same thing i did Sang Froid, though I guess I have to thank those trading mentors who spammed me the knowledge about trading opportunities in the first place. @Jah Dave- hope i get profitable like u.

Well, as I have said here on other threads. I have been self employed now for 27 years and working towards trading full time. At some point I am confident that I will have amassed enough capital to sell my business and just trade full time, but that is not now...........Until then I will be patiently gaining until I reach that point..........I have been studying now for 6 years and I did cross that line a few years ago..........I am confident that you can cross that line as well.............It does not seem to take extraordinary intelligence to do it (If it did I could not do it)...........Like everything else in life it seems to take an open mind and persistence and experience.........I have never doubted that I would be successful and if I fall down 100 times, then I get up 100 times and keep persisting..........My biggest problem is still believing what I am seeing on the charts...........

Good Trading,
JahDave

 

[JahDave]

Totally agree, I also see the losses I made in the early years as par for the course and money well spent. Fee's of learning if you like. Couple of blown accounts, few hundred quid here and there but well worth it in the long run. Would rather have lost that money my way, by learning how not to trade than giving it to some crackpot calling himself a mentor who also can't trade.

I consider the hundreds I lost in the first several years far less than tuition.........LOL

 

[Sang Froid]

I consider the hundreds I lost in the first several years far less than tuition.........LOL

Exactly, trading is a journey and one that aint easy. It's a real rocky path an absolute minefield. Paying for a mentor or tuition is money wasted, that money is better spent on a micro account and just trial and error, seeing what works and what doesn't. Stick a few hundred quid into a spreadbet or micro account and just see what it feels like to trade with real money, see how your emotions change when it's your actual money on the line. If you blow the lot it's okay, you know what doesn't work. Keep going until you find what does work.

NEVER PAY FOR ANYTHING THAT YOU CAN GET FOR FREE BY HARD WORK

 

[BeginnerJoe]

Thanks. I sent you a PM.

I was only joking. I thought you needed some hope, that's all. If you read my posts, it would become obvious I don't believe in trainers. Although I do believe in those who want to give back. I am like that myself, except in other fields. If I receive alot, I would have no trouble giving back some. Although I have received diddly squat from this forum so far. I think the place is full of noobs, losing money. Consequently they are stingy.

 

[JahDave]

I was only joking. I thought you needed some hope, that's all. If you read my posts, it would become obvious I don't believe in trainers. Although I do believe in those who want to give back. I am like that myself, except in other fields. If I receive alot, I would have no trouble giving back some. Although I have received diddly squat from this forum so far. I think the place is full of noobs, losing money. Consequently they are stingy.

Thanks Joe,

I say that we should learn well and drain the banks, because they already have our money anyway, and we can use it for more good than they can..............

 

[Black Swan]

Can I just say this thread is one of the best on mentoring I've seen/read...but not in the obvious sense...

 

[L0ck_St0cK_B0LL0cks]

Ok so here is my story.

When i started i was suckered into knowledge to action with greg secker, a complete waste of time and money, gave them up after 2 weeks and managed to get my money back. Thereafter i found tradethemarkets.com and left after 4 months because I didn't learn anything apart from needing to buy their proprietary indicators at $600 a piece and also DVD sessions at 1k a piece.

After that I was suckered into fxbootcamp, still very new and naive. I spent 3 months with a guy who couldn't stop talking about how wonderful he was but never showed any good material. Thereafter I tried some guy I can't even remember his name, supposed bank trader, his setups never worked and as a result he suspended them saying he is working on tweaking them. Luckily it wasn't a lot of money spent and I cut my losses.
I then found tim morge and spent about a year with him. I left his teachings because I wasn't making any progress. I then found James16 where I spent another year, I started finding some success with his material but didn't find pin bars very useful at all.

At this stage, about 4 years into trading I felt frustrated. I wanted to give up but the pull was to much. I finally did the right thing and went it alone. I started experimenting with my own methods and I found I was increasingly getting better although not entirely there. My charts were completely blank and price action with support was my only tools. My success came as winning streaks of 2 to 5 weeks where I end up blowing up. I spent about a year studying the charts and trying setups that I noticed repeated over and over again. Not your typical type of setup but rather subtle patterns in price that you don't find in books or anyone teaching.

I started to include fundamentals as a filter and that's where I started to turn a leaf. Instead of winning streaks followed by losing streaks, I started to slowly climb in profit. I spent a year in this frame slowly improving and tweaking my skills and I have managed to improve my growth by a great deal.
Today I follow 2 of my own setups with more success than all of those mentors\vendors put together. I have done a full circle in my trading in terms of strategy and indicators (don't use any).
I don't know if all my blunders assisted in my journey or if I would've found my way without them. Frankly speaking I don't care because I am no longer losing money. Thus far I have 7 successful months in a row.

My thoughts on this are mixed. I do suggest that you explore the market yourself however, it may take many years of frustration before you make any progress. Mentors didn't work for me and I tried several as you can see. What I discovered was a long list of what didn't work and who to avoid.

 

[timsk]

Hi noobietrader,
Welcome to T2W!

In your search for a mentor, my view is that the most important thing is to be very clear what 'mentor' means to you and, therefore, what you expect to receive from anyone you approach (or approaches you). The majority of people in the training game teach how they trade - which is a very different kettle of fish to mentoring someone from scratch. The difference between the two is discussed in this FAQ: Can You Recommend a Mentor, Coach or Trading Course?

One person who you might like to add to your list of possible candidates is Phil Newton ('Newtron Bomb' here on T2W). I don't trade the FX market and I've not had any training from him myself, but a lot of people speak highly of him - and his contributions to this forum are very good. You can get a flavour of his approach from this thread: Phil Newton's Range Break Out strategy

The generally negative attitude towards trainers that runs through most of the replies you've received is not without good reason. Even if you get past the scammers and find someone who really 'knows his/her onions' to crib Pazienza's phrase, the chances of success are slim for the reasons mentioned by bbmac in his excellent post earlier on - and those discussed in the FAQ linked above.

Anyway, best of luck and I hope you find what you're looking for!
Tim.

 

[noobietrader]

Hi noobietrader,
Welcome to T2W!

In your search for a mentor, my view is that the most important thing is to be very clear what 'mentor' means to you and, therefore, what you expect to receive from anyone you approach (or approaches you). The majority of people in the training game teach how they trade - which is a very different kettle of fish to mentoring someone from scratch. The difference between the two is discussed in this FAQ: Can You Recommend a Mentor, Coach or Trading Course?

One person who you might like to add to your list of possible candidates is Phil Newton ('Newtron Bomb' here on T2W). I don't trade the FX market and I've not had any training from him myself, but a lot of people speak highly of him - and his contributions to this forum are very good. You can get a flavour of his approach from this thread: Phil Newton's Range Break Out strategy

The generally negative attitude towards trainers that runs through most of the replies you've received is not without good reason. Even if you get past the scammers and find someone who really 'knows his/her onions' to crib Pazienza's phrase, the chances of success are slim for the reasons mentioned by bbmac in his excellent post earlier on - and those discussed in the FAQ linked above.

Anyway, best of luck and I hope you find what you're looking for!
Tim.

Thanks for your excellent post Tim! I am very much aware that an excellent trader does not necessarily make a great mentor for the reasons you ably describe. It could often be the case that a mentor has developed what works for him but that his student cannot adapt to that trading style or has a different temperament, etc. As I pointed out earlier, I am under no illusions that a mentor will guarantee success. Mentoring might increase the probability of being successful or it might not.

However, I was disturbed by the high degree of negativity in response to my post. Why do so many (like pboyles) readily dismiss mentors yet they suggest reading books! The same logic would apply: if you are good at trading why bother going to the trouble of writing books others can learn your techniques from? Who mentors the thousands of institutional traders? Are they all failed traders because they are training traders at investment banks and hedge funds? Are there mentors who are scammers? Of course! But this doesn't justify throwing the baby out with the bath water.

I believe that while some can learn from courses/books, and trial and error, when you are competing against trained professional traders there must be some value in their training by a mentor (or whatever one wants to call them) before they are let loose to trade millions in institutional funds. How many lawyers, accountants, doctors, etc learned their craft from reading books and trial and error? Didn't they need uni lecturers and then practical training by mentors both in their studies and later at their law, accounting firms, hospitals, etc? And yet so many dismissive comments about ANY mentor. The key is do one's due diligence and try to determine if a prospective mentor (such as Phil Newton whose record can be checked and mentoring possibly independently verified) could be helpful. Again, I wholeheartedly concur that being mentored by Phil or any other person of his caliber would not necessarily guarantee my or anyone else's success.

Thanks again!

 

[L0ck_St0cK_B0LL0cks]

Thanks for your excellent post Tim! I am very much aware that an excellent trader does not necessarily make a great mentor for the reasons you ably describe. It could often be the case that a mentor has developed what works for him but that his student cannot adapt to that trading style or has a different temperament, etc. As I pointed out earlier, I am under no illusions that a mentor will guarantee success. Mentoring might increase the probability of being successful or it might not.

However, I was disturbed by the high degree of negativity in response to my post. Why do so many (like pboyles) readily dismiss mentors yet they suggest reading books! The same logic would apply: if you are good at trading why bother going to the trouble of writing books others can learn your techniques from? Who mentors the thousands of institutional traders? Are they all failed traders because they are training traders at investment banks and hedge funds? Are there mentors who are scammers? Of course! But this doesn't justify throwing the baby out with the bath water.

I believe that while some can learn from courses/books, and trial and error, when you are competing against trained professional traders there must be some value in their training by a mentor (or whatever one wants to call them) before they are let loose to trade millions in institutional funds. How many lawyers, accountants, doctors, etc learned their craft from reading books and trial and error? Didn't they need uni lecturers and then practical training by mentors both in their studies and later at their law, accounting firms, hospitals, etc? And yet so many dismissive comments about ANY mentor. The key is do one's due diligence and try to determine if a prospective mentor (such as Phil Newton whose record can be checked and mentoring possibly independently verified) could be helpful. Again, I wholeheartedly concur that being mentored by Phil or any other person of his caliber would not necessarily guarantee my or anyone else's success.

Thanks again!

Learning to trade is no different than doing a degree or even a phd in some cases. Everyone has to start somewhere and everyone has different learning speeds and natural talent. All a mentor is going to do is show you methods and outlay an overall strategy. In the banks they start out as assistants and slowly work their way into trading. Their journey is only different from ours by the banks strict disciplines.
I read a post on here the other day from a trader who worked in the institutional side. Basically they do the same as us but their punishment is more official. At the end of the day you can go to 10 of the best mentors, spend a year with them and still not get it.
My experience is that you cannot transfer experience only knowledge. The problem with this is that it is the experience that gets you to your goal, knowledge alone isn't enough. Plan on spending a great deal of your time gaining experience through mistakes and success. Some people get it faster than others.
I'm no pro yet but I have 7 winning months in a row which has taken me since 2004 to achieve. All I can say is that it isn't the mentor that made the difference it was learning about myself and how I see the market that did. Good luck anyways