Please Help! Stop loss triggered even though the price only went up....

[Choppy69]

Hi,

Really hoping you guys can help as I recently purchased 215qty of 2AMZ at 4637 with Hargreaves Lansdowne and set a stop loss of 4350 (approx 5% lower). The ETP is offered by a company called leverage shares .com (all one word).

I have been told that the stop loss hit and my position was sold, however none of the charts are showing this to be the case and I feel there has been some kind of an error. Not only did the stop loss trigger even though the price for this stock continued to rise all day from the moment I purchased it, it sold for 2704 approximately 40-45% below the price.

I also had exactly the same thing happen with the same stock around 30 minutes later in my ISA account where I had bought the same stock.

Please can somebody advise how this is possible as I have lost a lot of money.

 

[tomorton]

Maybe the spread widened at that time?

 

[Trader333]

Why not ask HL what happened as they should know ? That said the volume on this is exceptionally low so it would make sense to check the bid - ask spread yesterday because if at any point it widened to the point that your order was triggered then that may have had an impact. It is good practice to not trade any instrument that has low volume as what happened to you is common place in low volume instruments.

 

[Choppy69]

Thanks for coming back to me guys. I have asked HL and they don't seem able to help, they are saying it could be down to gapping?

how can I check the bid - ask price?

I looked at the trades on the London stock exchange website yesterday and can't see any trades as low as 2704 but maybe im looking in the wrong place?

 

[tomorton]

What's important is your broker's bid-ask spread at the relevant time.

This would be a massive spread whereas I am seeing this usually might be about 20pts. Its possible the exit was triggered by bad data forming a spike down. The broker should provide more info.

 

[Choppy69]

What's important is your broker's bid-ask spread at the relevant time.

This would be a massive spread whereas I am seeing this usually might be about 20pts. Its possible the exit was triggered by bad data forming a spike down. The broker should provide more info.

Thanks, is there a way I can check? I cant find this info anywhere and HL are being really unhelpful.

 

[tomorton]

Thanks, is there a way I can check? I cant find this info anywhere and HL are being really unhelpful.

HL have a good reputation. As in any client-firm relationship, you may need to press them, make it formal and go higher in their hierarchy. I'm sure they'll provide the information needed.

 

[Choppy69]

Really appreciate all your advice Tom, this is quite a big worry for me and you've done more than anybody including HL to advise and help.

I spoke with them a few times and they said that a complaint has been raised but they won't give me any more info. Surely they can tell me what the spread was? If not is there any way I can check somewhere?

 

[tomorton]

Give it time. Sit tight.

 

[Choppy69]

I just found this on the London south east website....

Does it help prove my case?
Recent Share Trades for 2x Amazon Etp (2AMZ)

Date	Time	Trade Prc	Volume	Buy/Sell	Bid	Ask	Value
17-Apr-20	10:50:13	4,863.00	362	Buy*	4,823.00	4,863.00	17.60k	A
17-Apr-20	09:06:26	4,891.00	400	Buy*	4,868.00	4,891.00	19.56k	A
16-Apr-20	15:12:39	4,700.00	500	Sell*	4,700.00	4,705.00	23.50k	A
16-Apr-20	14:41:25	4,643.00	599	Sell*	4,643.00	4,671.00	27.81k	A
16-Apr-20	11:45:56	4,639.00	1,000	Buy*	4,619.00	4,639.00	46.39k	A
16-Apr-20	11:20:46	4,625.00	3	Buy*	4,603.00	4,625.00	138.75	A
16-Apr-20	09:14:48	4,612.00	553	Sell*	4,612.00	4,635.00	25.50k	A
16-Apr-20	09:08:31	4,592.00	629	Sell*	4,592.00	4,613.00	28.88k	A
15-Apr-20	15:32:05	4,493.00	2,085	Buy*	4,474.00	4,493.00	93.68k	A

 

[darktone]

Id suggest you edit your first post and remove those pdf files.
take screen snaps, blot out or remove the personal info and repost them

Not my playground but there must be a record of the trades someplace in time sales. Using a stop order in a thin market can get you wild executions.

 

[Choppy69]

Id suggest you edit your first post and remove those pdf files.
take screen snaps, blot out or remove the personal info and repost them

Not my playground but there must be a record of the trades someplace in time sales. Using a stop order in a thin market can get you wild executions.

Thanks, Didn't realise there was personal info attached...

I can only find the trades with the bid prices in my previous post and the daily range on Bloomberg only shows a range that I would of expected.

 

[darktone]

Ideally you want to find your trades, maybe someone else can help with that but ultimately its on you. A stop order is essentially a market order when triggered. If theres no liquidity you can get a horrible fill.
Ie you could have the market at 4470-4490 with your stop at 4350.
There could be only 10 bid at 4470
Someone could sell 10 at market
If the next price is 2700 the market will go 2700-4490, triggering your stop.
Youll get filled at 2700 or worse.

Example is extreme but trying to show how it might have went down.
Didnt watch all but might help.

 

[Choppy69]

Ideally you want to find your trades, maybe someone else can help with that but ultimately its on you. A stop order is essentially a market order when triggered. If theres no liquidity you can get a horrible fill.
Ie you could have the market at 4470-4490 with your stop at 4350.
There could be only 10 bid at 4470
Someone could sell 10 at market
If the next price is 2700 the market will go 2700-4490, triggering your stop.
Youll get filled at 2700 or worse.

Example is extreme but trying to show how it might have went down.
Didnt watch all but might help.

Thanks, I will take a look at the video link.

I think I kind of understand how this could've happened but my issue is the lack of evidence to corroborate what's gone on, surely if the price went this low it should show in the charts?

 

[darktone]

Thanks, I will take a look at the video link.

I think I kind of understand how this could've happened but my issue is the lack of evidence to corroborate what's gone on, surely if the price went this low it should show in the charts?

Yep, im not sure what info your broker is obliged to give you but there must be record somewhere.
The charts may show it, but it depends on what price its built from. Say you had a line chart built from bid and ask data, youd have two lines (ask - bid) with a gap in the middle (spread). Your executions should be easy to spot on a chart like that.

 

[Choppy69]

yep, but I cant find any charts anywhere that show it dropping at all, let alone all the way down to 2704 from around 4700...

 

[Lampooka]

Hi,

Really hoping you guys can help as I recently purchased 215qty of 2AMZ at 4637 with Hargreaves Lansdowne and set a stop loss of 4350 (approx 5% lower). The ETP is offered by a company called leverage shares .com (all one word).

I have been told that the stop loss hit and my position was sold, however none of the charts are showing this to be the case and I feel there has been some kind of an error. Not only did the stop loss trigger even though the price for this stock continued to rise all day from the moment I purchased it, it sold for 2704 approximately 40-45% below the price.

I also had exactly the same thing happen with the same stock around 30 minutes later in my ISA account where I had bought the same stock.

Please can somebody advise how this is possible as I have lost a lot of money.

Choppy69 - How long ago is recently? On April 15 it traded a low of 4275.

 

[barjon]

Yep, im not sure what info your broker is obliged to give you but there must be record somewhere.
The charts may show it, but it depends on what price its built from. Say you had a line chart built from bid and ask data, youd have two lines (ask - bid) with a gap in the middle (spread). Your executions should be easy to spot on a chart like that.

Not sure what chart you’re using, it may be configured on mid-price. See if you can configure your chart on bid price and it should show up. If not raise merry hell with HL.

 

[Choppy69]

Choppy69 - How long ago is recently? On April 15 it traded a low of 4275.

Like yesterday!! Even 4275 is way above 2704.... I just don't get it?

Bought Qty 81 @ 4625 at 11:28
Bought Qty 215 @ 4637 at 11:32

Sold Qty 81 @ 2704 at 12:50
Sold Qty 264 @ 2704 at 12:39 (264 because I already purchased 49 previously)

 

[Choppy69]

Not sure what chart you’re using, it may be configured on mid-price. See if you can configure your chart on bid price and it should show up. If not raise merry hell with HL.

I've looked at just about every chart I can find but Trading view seems to hold the most info hour by hour and still the lows are nowhere near 2704..