Logic Investments

[toonbarmy]

Hey guys. Just a quick question. I have been in contact with a company called Logic Investments with regards to the job of trainee stockbroker. They said to me that I would have to cold call several private clients and once proven would make my way up and end up taking exams. I have 2 questions really.

1) Are they legitimate?

2) Is this process of "account opening" normal?

Cheers guys

 

[anley]

Proper brokers don't cold call people.

Find out what the stocks are they're selling, if small penny type ones then you can bet they're up to no good.

 

[Depth Trade]

I would watch this video and work on your closing lines.

 

[pboyles]

Hey guys. Just a quick question. I have been in contact with a company called Logic Investments with regards to the job of trainee stockbroker. They said to me that I would have to cold call several private clients and once proven would make my way up and end up taking exams. I have 2 questions really.

1) Are they legitimate?

2) Is this process of "account opening" normal?

Cheers guys

Where are they based? If they are cold calling people in the UK selling shares then you can be sure they're a scam.

 

[toonbarmy]

Where are they based? If they are cold calling people in the UK selling shares then you can be sure they're a scam.

I am not selling shares, I am selling a service (initially). It is building a client base of which I would trade for and give advice on. I found them on the FSA register. They are based in Victoria.

 

[anley]

If they're not a boiler room then chances are they're the next one up, this is probably how they'll work.

They'll be rasing money and dealing shares in small UK penny stocks.

They'll raise say £500k-£1m from the company and receive part payment in shares at say 0.5p.

They'll then use their salesforce to sell these shares in a 'great and promising' company for 2p.

What they won't tell the poor people that are called is the company is the seller at 2p and is basically using their client base to make money off. If the shares then go up good, if not it doesn't really matter because the broker has made a good turn.

It's highly immoral of course but some people don't mind ripping off people as long as the money is good.

Not saying the above is the MO of the company but personally it sounds like it from what you've said.

 

[friday76]

I am not selling shares, I am selling a service (initially). It is building a client base of which I would trade for and give advice on. I found them on the FSA register. They are based in Victoria.

They appear to be legit as they have an FSA reg number. However, investigations show them to be operational from Broadway, New York, from the same place as richfieldorioninternational.com and litmuscmg.com. Do a search on these 2 organisations and draw your own conclusions. If you have been sucked in, you will be continuosly looking over your shoulder for the long arm of the law.
friday76

 

[Logic Investments]

Hi All,

We would like to put some concerns to rest, equally clarify who we are, what we do and end the speculation as to how we operate.

We are a legitimate advisory stockbroker based in London. We were previously based in Victoria but we are now based in Liverpool Street in London.

Firstly, we do not cold call anyone for any reason. We do have a dedicated business development team that will contact prospective clients and offer our services; we establish a relationship with these individuals by offering research via websites such as Reuters or the London Stock Exchange, those that are interested will provide their details and we will establish communication with them.

Secondly; we do not offer penny shares. We trade predominantly trade in the FTSE 100 and FTSE 250, we do occasionally trade more of the well know US companies. We do not involve ourselves in any placings (as referenced by Anley) of any sort.

We are regulated by the FSA (our number is 516459) and as mentioned we are based at 70 St Mary Axe, London. We do not operate from New York, you can come visit us if you wish, and are not associated with any company based in the USA.

Logic Investments has been invited to offer their opinions on Bloomberg and CNBC. Please see the videos below:

Monitise, Asos Favored at Logic Investments - Video - Bloomberg
Darren Easton, Director of Trading at Logic Investments, on Bloomberg 08022012 - YouTube

Darren Easton, Director of Trading at Logic Investments, on CNBC 20022012 - YouTube

I hope this clarifies who we are and ends speculations as to how we may operate.

Any questions please fee free to email us on [email protected]

Regards,

The Logic Investments Team.

 

[strokey tone]

Dear Toonbarmy,
You appear to have integrity and want to trained to be able to offer your future clients a service that is in their interest rather than how much leverage or how many trades you can persuade them to take in a day, you are to be applauded for this as true commitment to the client is sadly lacking at so many brokers these days!
I would suggest that you try to gain a position with a long established broker and if possible seek the opinon of some their clients as to the service they have received before accepting a position, for instance Hargreaves Lansdown or a bank such as Saxo Bank who offer excellent customer service to their clients rather than the high pressure double glazing sales tactics operated by many of the other brokers who may remain within the letter rather than the spirit of the law!.

 

[strokey tone]

Dear Toonbarmy,
Please see the following article on boiler room scams and cold calling which explains the regulations concerning the points you raised and this may explain why some brokers offer free information on certain stocks via adverts on the internet because when you request this free information then they can say that the person made contact with them first!

What is a Boiler Room?

Boiler Rooms are businesses that use high-pressure sales techniques to sell "sure thing" investments with the promise of massive returns. In fact, what they're selling is worthless stock in often unquoted companies that are either overvalued, or that simply don't exist at all.

How they work

Boiler Room operatives generally cold-call their targets, using phone numbers from publicly-available shareholder lists. Because it's against the law for brokers to cold-call in the UK, they tend to be based abroad (often Spain, Switzerland, or the US) where they're beyond the jurisdiction of the Financial Services Authority (FSA). They can approach anyone, anywhere.

Boiler Room techniques

A Boiler Room can look and sound legitimate. They may mention companies you've heard of, give themselves a UK address or phone number and possibly even have a professional-looking website. They're notoriously persistent and can hound a victim for months in the hope of a sale, catching out even seasoned investors. According to the FSA, Boiler Room Scam victims lose on average £20,000. The bottom line is that if an opportunity sounds too good to be true, then it almost certainly is.

The advice is simple. If you think you're being targeted by a Boiler Room, the FSA's advice is not to worry about being polite - just hang up. You should then call the FSA contact centre on 0845 606 1234 with as much detail as you can remember. You'll find more information about Boiler Rooms on the FSA website Financial Services Authority

 

[strokey tone]

If I were you Toonbarmy I would read this FREE bookhttp://monkeywithapin.com/
You are wasting yor time wanting to work for Brokers as they just gamble with their clients money and charge a fat fee for the privalege no matter how poor their performance!

 

[strokey tone]

Cheap Share Dealing - Trade UK Shares for 0.1% minimum charge £8

Whether you trade daily or once in a blue moon, whether you trade Shares, CFDs or FX, our Execution Only service will ensure that you are equipped with the right information and tools to help you make your own decisions.

Our Execution only service allows you to trade 12,000 shares on 20 major exchanges across the world, over 6,000 CFDs, 19 Index-tracking CFDs, over 155 FX crosses, Gold and Silver, ETFs and ETCs as well as FX Options, Futures contracts and other derivatives, all on one platform.
To support your trading and management of your portfolio we will provide you with the facilities to place orders either via telephone or online.

If you would like to register online it can be done in minutes, please click here and follow the onscreen instructions.

or

If you prefer to receive our details by post then please contact us on 0203 137 8585 or email us on [email protected]

Many thanks,

Research Team


Logic Investments Ltd
70 St Mary Axe
London
EC3A 8BE

Switchboard: +44 (0)203 137 8585
Fax: +44 (0)203 137 8586

Email: [email protected]
Web: Logic Investments - Investment & Trading Advice
Disclaimer
This communication contains information which is confidential, and is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this in error please contact the sender immediately and delete it and all copies from your system. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Logic Investments Limited unless otherwise specifically stated. This email and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus but it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure this.

Risk Warning Notice
The value of shares can fall as well as rise; you may not necessarily get back the amount you invested. Past performance is no guarantee of future performance. Trading in derivatives such as Contracts for Difference or Foreign Exchange (FX) may not be suitable for all types of investor as they carry a high degree of risk. You may lose all of your initial investment and in some cases you may be liable for a greater sum than this. Extended runs of losses as well as profits can occur. Only speculate with money you can afford to lose. Changes in exchange rates may also cause your investment to go up or down in value. Tax laws may be subject to change. Please ensure that you fully understand the risks involved. If in any doubt, please seek independent financial advice. To view our full Risk Warning please Click Here

Authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. FSA Registration No. 516459

 

[strokey tone]

Anyone filled in the web form for one of those offers of a free report on Oil, banks, etc and then received calls trying to get them to sign up for a CFD trading account , some of the brokers doing this are Galvan, Collins Sari Statham and Logic Investments and whilst they may not be boiler rooms scams and these firms are registered with the FSA the sales tactics used by them are deplorable

 

[pboyles]

Hi All,

We would like to put some concerns to rest, equally clarify who we are, what we do and end the speculation as to how we operate.

We are a legitimate advisory stockbroker based in London. We were previously based in Victoria but we are now based in Liverpool Street in London.

Firstly, we do not cold call anyone for any reason. We do have a dedicated business development team that will contact prospective clients and offer our services; we establish a relationship with these individuals by offering research via websites such as Reuters or the London Stock Exchange, those that are interested will provide their details and we will establish communication with them.

Secondly; we do not offer penny shares. We trade predominantly trade in the FTSE 100 and FTSE 250, we do occasionally trade more of the well know US companies. We do not involve ourselves in any placings (as referenced by Anley) of any sort.

We are regulated by the FSA (our number is 516459) and as mentioned we are based at 70 St Mary Axe, London. We do not operate from New York, you can come visit us if you wish, and are not associated with any company based in the USA.

Logic Investments has been invited to offer their opinions on Bloomberg and CNBC. Please see the videos below:

Monitise, Asos Favored at Logic Investments - Video - Bloomberg
Darren Easton, Director of Trading at Logic Investments, on Bloomberg 08022012 - YouTube

Darren Easton, Director of Trading at Logic Investments, on CNBC 20022012 - YouTube

I hope this clarifies who we are and ends speculations as to how we may operate.

Any questions please fee free to email us on [email protected]

Regards,

The Logic Investments Team.

Actually that's exactly what boiler room scams do, advertise free newsletters on investments, shares, gold etc and then gather the e mail addresses and phone numbers. Then you have some small print that says you are allowed to contact the victims, then you cold call them. Of course according to you that isnt cold calling.

Anyhow this is all a bit irrelevant now that your horrendous performance has been exposed here.

 

[strokey tone]

Actually that's exactly what boiler room scams do, advertise free newsletters on investments, shares, gold etc and then gather the e mail addresses and phone numbers. Then you have some small print that says you are allowed to contact the victims, then you cold call them. Of course according to you that isnt cold calling.

Anyhow this is all a bit irrelevant now that your horrendous performance has been exposed here.

That is exactly right, Logic operate just within the letter of the law but not the spirit!

 

[DT]

To be fair the post by Logic Investments seemed quite reasonable... it wouldn't raise any alarm bells if they were just providing an advisory service on investments in blue chip equities (FTSE100) etc... Its not unreasonable either for a broker to send out marketing and then call people who respond.

Advisory CFD service though... that does seem very dubious. It would seem, if you were a skeptical person, that it might be an excuse to basically churn a clients account with lots of short term trading recommendations....

Ask yourself this - if you could make money from short term trades would you either
a) set up a CTA and go make millions

or

b) hire an office and some keen sales people hungry to earn commission and try to sell your recomendations to a bunch of retail clients?

Also if you look at the FSA register as the company representative has suggested you'd likely want to run away from this firm... of the 6 people they have registered one is ex blue index and three are ex wills and co...

if you're interested in what sort of firms these brokers have come from

Wills & Co and Semperian hit by FSA crackdown - Telegraph

Blue Index head jailed for insider trading - FT.com

Indications would seem that after a stint at one of these places you could have a promising future career selling wine investments, plots of land etc...

 

[strokey tone]

To be fair the post by Logic Investments seemed quite reasonable... it wouldn't raise any alarm bells if they were just providing an advisory service on investments in blue chip equities (FTSE100) etc... Its not unreasonable either for a broker to send out marketing and then call people who respond.

Advisory CFD service though... that does seem very dubious. It would seem, if you were a skeptical person, that it might be an excuse to basically churn a clients account with lots of short term trading recommendations....

Ask yourself this - if you could make money from short term trades would you either
a) set up a CTA and go make millions

or

b) hire an office and some keen sales people hungry to earn commission and try to sell your recomendations to a bunch of retail clients?

Also if you look at the FSA register as the company representative has suggested you'd likely want to run away from this firm... of the 6 people they have registered one is ex blue index and three are ex wills and co...

if you're interested in what sort of firms these brokers have come from

Wills & Co and Semperian hit by FSA crackdown - Telegraph

Blue Index head jailed for insider trading - FT.com[/url

Thank you for taking the trouble to post, as you say advisory CFD trading is a great opportunity to churn the clients shares, if only I knew then what I know now and the information on where some of the partners at Logic Investments worked before are news to me!
They told me in order to lower risk to me that I should take out £5000 CFD positions but when I questioned their fees they told me they had a minimum charge of £50.00 in and £50.00out plus 0.5% commission which as you know means that I was over £100 down to start with on every trade and some months at 36 trades this mounts up, made even worse if you lose on many of the trades!
At one stage by opening various long small positions in EMG I had a £44000 long position with a £22000 loss which they then persuaded me to take a £44000 short position on which I could not see the sense of but they said I had to think like a trader!

 

[pboyles]

Also if you look at the FSA register as the company representative has suggested you'd likely want to run away from this firm... of the 6 people they have registered one is ex blue index and three are ex wills and co...

!

Well spotted and now the former boss of Wills and Co is flogging wine 'investments', I wonder how that will all end.

 

[DT]

Thank you for taking the trouble to post, as you say advisory CFD trading is a great opportunity to churn the clients shares, if only I knew then what I know now and the information on where some of the partners at Logic Investments worked before are news to me!
They told me in order to lower risk to me that I should take out £5000 CFD positions but when I questioned their fees they told me they had a minimum charge of £50.00 in and £50.00out plus 0.5% commission which as you know means that I was over £100 down to start with on every trade and some months at 36 trades this mounts up, made even worse if you lose on many of the trades!
At one stage by opening various long small positions in EMG I had a £44000 long position with a £22000 loss which they then persuaded me to take a £44000 short position on which I could not see the sense of but they said I had to think like a trader!

Would be interesting if you worked out how much you'd paid in fees and what sort of returns you'd need as a % of your account in one month to just cover the fees and break even...

If what you say is the case have you tried complaining to the FSA and approaching the financial services compensation scheme. I believe former clients of pacific continental might have managed to get something back from them. Then again I'm no legal expert so I'm unsure of the requirements you'd have to meet to demonstrate that a particular broker had essentially churned your account.

It might also be worth contacting Tony Hetherington:

Tony Hetherington

He was one of the few journalists out there writing about all the dubious FSA regulated firms who were hard selling rather dubious AIM stocks not too long ago... maybe he would be interested in taking a look at some of these CFD advisory firms.

I'd also note in general that if anyone reading this thread has left a brokerage firm they didn't feel was doing things in an ethical manner then you can report things to the FSA anonymously...

 

[BobbyBB]

As others have said on this board before, never forget this point when it comes to managed accounts (especially CFDs).

The best managed accounts are always, repeat, always, the ones that lose you the less.....