How to get a Trainee Stockbroker role?

[majicka]

Hi there,

I know that there have been a few posts already about becoming a trainee stockbroker but I was really looking for some confirmation on the best route to getting that job.

I already think that I have a pretty-good knowledge of the job-market for trainee brokers but am having difficulty finding companies that: a) are recruiting; and b) don't want you to cold-call people.

I worked for as a trainee stockbroker at one company for a month but wasn't keen on cold-calling and the culture there, so I left after a month. Now, after having difficulty finding many places recruiting, I'm thinking that perhaps that's the route that I will have to go as most stockbrokers are quite small and don't seem to recruit on a large scale- the ones that do seem to recruit are the brokers that deal in 'penny' shares and cold-call people.

I've decided to do the SII Certifcate off my own back, which hopefully will be a selling point but still there's not many positions out there. On the positive side I do have an interview at an office of Brewin Dolphin and an interview at a company that I have not heard of before, Sigma Financial Management, which I presume will involve more cold calling.

Am I being too picky by not wanting to cold-call? Any further advice would be greatly appreciated as I would really like to become a stockbroker but know that it can be really hard to get the break you need.

Cheers

Ian

 

[charliechan]

cold calling seems to be the way most small outfits targeting man in the street operate.

the only way out of this is to go for the big names (like brewin dolphin), but i bet there will still be some cold calling, but hopefully the marketing dept will have passed you leads of people who have requested a call.

small firms cant often afford the marketing money of the big firms - and the big firms were once small firms - made big by good cold callers who are now probably quite rich.

remember brokers are, at the end of the day, sales people, and most sales people are required to cold call either people/consumers or other businesses in order to get business.

are you sure you want to be a broker?

what aspect of the job do you think you will enjoy?

seems a bit like a fire-fighter who is afraid of heights to me.

 

[majicka]

Yes, I'm sure I want to be a broker, it's just that from what I've experienced (having also done work experience at another top broker) smaller firms appear to be more sales based, even when you have passed the trainee stage. This, in my opinion meant that the culture of the firm I worked for was geared more towards selling shares than looking after clients' interests in the longer-term, which I do not necessarily believe to be ideal. I'm also aware that there have been issues with some companies 'hard' selling shares to people, which I also would rather not do.

At the end of the day, yes, I would prefer to work for a company where cold-calling is not required,as I don't think that anyone finds it a fun experience. I would rather get on with the job of getting to know the market, customers needs etc. I do realise, though that a lot of firms nowadays do require you to cold-call and that perhaps, I just need to grit-my-teeth and get through that stage of the job.

Ultimately, I suppose I was just wondering whether anyone might have any other suggestions for targeting stockbrokers to apply to.

Thanks for the response.

 

[majicka]

Sorry, just realised that I didn't answer your question concerning the parts of the job that I think I'll enjoy.

Well, I enjoy tracking the performance of shares, reading-up on the changes that are happening in the market each day. Also, I believe that I will enjoy communicating with clients and recommending stocks that I think will perform well. I have been interested in the stockmarket for a long-time and invest in a fantasy portfolio and I do believe that I have got what it takes, it's just that I'm aware of the differences between top and bottom tier stockbrokers, in terms of culture, and as far as I can see some of the lower-tier brokers aren't that far-removed from boiler rooms in terms of sales tactics.

 

[rog1111]

How about going for a trainee analyst role ? You may need to beef up your qualifications, but the environment will be less sales orientated, sounds like a better fit ?

GL
rog1111

Sorry, just realised that I didn't answer your question concerning the parts of the job that I think I'll enjoy.

Well, I enjoy tracking the performance of shares, reading-up on the changes that are happening in the market each day. Also, I believe that I will enjoy communicating with clients and recommending stocks that I think will perform well. I have been interested in the stockmarket for a long-time and invest in a fantasy portfolio and I do believe that I have got what it takes, it's just that I'm aware of the differences between top and bottom tier stockbrokers, in terms of culture, and as far as I can see some of the lower-tier brokers aren't that far-removed from boiler rooms in terms of sales tactics.

 

[majicka]

How about going for a trainee analyst role ? You may need to beef up your qualifications, but the environment will be less sales orientated, sounds like a better fit ?

GL
rog1111

I've considered that but I do really want to have client contact, but the qualifications are also another consideration. I mean, at the end of the day, I do have experience of stockbroking and and have a good idea of what it entails, I just don't want to be cold-calling retired people to sell them penny shares- loads of stockbrokers nowadays do that. I wouldn't mind dealing with AIM, I think it's quite dynamic and interesting but it's obviously not suited to a significant proportion of investors, but most of the stockbrokers cold-calling, selling penny-shares have bought a large tranche of shares that they have helped to float, and and really look to push these shares on to people. Just look at what happened to Hoodless Brennan the other week, they got fined 90,000 grand by the FSA for hard-selling.

To me this means that the culture of companies like that is focused much more on selling penny shares, than managing their clients' portfolios. I really can't see how the fact that I don't want to do this is at odds with wanting to be a stockbroker: many stockbrokers don't ever cold-call but most people seem to think that this is standard practice.

 

[charliechan]

majicka - cool. i understand 100% - and also agree. i wouldnt want to be cold calling for a living either.

do your best with brewin dolphin. everyone i have met from that company seems like they know their game. it aint a boiler room like the other places you have been to - as im sure you will find out in the interview.

get a list off the lse web site of member firms if you havent done so already and approach each one direct. i doubt the boiler rooms will have membership. thats what i would do. - find out who the head of the desk/brokerage is, give him/her a call, have a chat find out what they look for, then send your cv. try and avoid hr departments if possible.

at least you seem to have a genuine interest which will go a long way rather than just the monetary side.

good luck

 

[welco11]

Broking

Sounds like you want to be a fund manager not a stockbroker.The term stockbroker is used mainly for the retail sector selling to the average joe on the street.Forget about this it's not worth it.If you want to be a Fund Manager and you don't have a degree do your S11,IMC and CFA or securities diploma and they might consider you.Otherwise consider interdealer broking or get in the treasury room of a big bank and try and work your way up to become a trader in OTC derivatives money markets or FX.Also forget the prop shops unless you can support yourself for at least a year and a half.

 

[majicka]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

I'll have a further look at Fund Management, although from I've seen they generally like to take on people with a more quantative degree than mine.

 

[welco11]

Fund Management

Think your getting mixed up with hedge fund and fund management.Hedge funds require a quant degree.Investment managment on the other hand is more long term investment managing porfolio's etc like the small stockbrokers but with no cold calling as they already have a large existing client base.Look for jobs as fund manager assistant.

 

[purplevein]

Hedge fund dont necessarily need quant degree....it really depends what kind of hedge fund you want for work for and what position.

Have you thought about working for a market maker rather than a stockbroker? I agree with Charlie that the Brewin guys are a good bunch. I would consider the marekt making side...someone like Winterfloods if you like the small caps. Good set of guys, can be pretty hard being a junior there...but you would get invaluable experience about how these markets work. Plus if you decided it want for you...you would have experience and enough contacts to get a job stockbroking!!

 

[majicka]

Hedge fund dont necessarily need quant degree....it really depends what kind of hedge fund you want for work for and what position.

Have you thought about working for a market maker rather than a stockbroker? I agree with Charlie that the Brewin guys are a good bunch. I would consider the marekt making side...someone like Winterfloods if you like the small caps. Good set of guys, can be pretty hard being a junior there...but you would get invaluable experience about how these markets work. Plus if you decided it want for you...you would have experience and enough contacts to get a job stockbroking!!

Thanks for the respone.

Yeah, I've thought about market making, it sounds quite interesting but the only MM that I've heard of is Winterfloods and I can't see any careers section on their website, although I suppose I can send in a speculative app. I don't suppose that you could give me some names of market makers to look for?

Cheers

 

[purplevein]

Thanks for the respone.

Yeah, I've thought about market making, it sounds quite interesting but the only MM that I've heard of is Winterfloods and I can't see any careers section on their website, although I suppose I can send in a speculative app. I don't suppose that you could give me some names of market makers to look for?

Cheers

Dont bother with specualtive applications...remember these trading houses are typically very down to earth....I was the only person with a degree in my office when i was trading small caps fyi!!

Winterfloods, Evolution, KBC Peel Hunt, Collins StewartTeather & Greenwood to name a few market makers for you. list of makret makers here: http://www.londonstockexchange.com/...ssreleases/2005/setsmmgoesliveftseukaim50.htm


The best way to get a job with these guys is to ring up...try and get to speak to the top man, the chief executive... tell him your interest and if you can send in your cv....follow up within the week...(this is what i did by the way)

sometimes you may have to do some time in the back office before you go through to the front but its all good experience.. Hope this helps!

 

[majicka]

Dont bother with specualtive applications...remember these trading houses are typically very down to earth....I was the only person with a degree in my office when i was trading small caps fyi!!

Winterfloods, Evolution, KBC Peel Hunt, Collins StewartTeather & Greenwood to name a few market makers for you. list of makret makers here: http://www.londonstockexchange.com/...ssreleases/2005/setsmmgoesliveftseukaim50.htm


The best way to get a job with these guys is to ring up...try and get to speak to the top man, the chief executive... tell him your interest and if you can send in your cv....follow up within the week...(this is what i did by the way)

sometimes you may have to do some time in the back office before you go through to the front but its all good experience.. Hope this helps!

That's great! Thanks a lot for that, I'll follow your advice.

 

[majicka]

Just a (rather late!) update.

I've since been offered a job and have been working as an assistant investment manager for the last month and a bit at a private bank in Manchester. Not the same as working in the City, I know, but perhaps that'll come later. Anyway, I'm really enjoying the job and just wanted to say thanks to everyone who gave me advice on this board.

Once again, thanks a lot.

Majicka

 

[purplevein]

Just a (rather late!) update.

I've since been offered a job and have been working as an assistant investment manager for the last month and a bit at a private bank in Manchester. Not the same as working in the City, I know, but perhaps that'll come later. Anyway, I'm really enjoying the job and just wanted to say thanks to everyone who gave me advice on this board.

Once again, thanks a lot.

Majicka

cool - glad to hear things have worked out. Who are you working for if you mind me asking? Regards, Simon

 

[majicka]

cool - glad to hear things have worked out. Who are you working for if you mind me asking? Regards, Simon

I'm working for a private bank called Brown Shipley, they're part of the KBL Group, which also includes KBC Peel Hunt in the UK.

 

[Europe Land Invest]

Why do you want to be a stockbroker?

Stockbrokers make good money, that is the appeal, if you like reading up on stocks then be an investment manager or a trader - but i assure you there is little fun had in ringing investors who guard their purses closely and telling them great recc's only to see them say oh thanks, bye!. It will neither pay your mortgage, credit card let alone that dream sports car.

Too many people like the ideal of being a hot shot stockpicker - actual fact, stockbrokers with their basic qualification CF22, can't give reccomendations but give only compliance approved reccomendations.

A broker is a salesman, from Corporate Finance, to UBS to SVS - if you like talking to people be a counsellor but I dont believe stockbroking is for you. you need to be ruthless and hungry - I see many people with the same attitude during my time as a broker and they all failed.

Please do not take this personally, its based on experience and is meant to save you time. Alternatively try some one like Redmayne Bentley, but in order to get paid you need to be able to close deals and the softly softly approach just doesnt work. Good luck in whatever you choose to do - and prove me wrong

 

[Europe Land Invest]

Sorry just read your last post - SUPERB work fella, good luck, great chance youve got.

 

[recruiter1]

I was a trader for some 18 years, I now run Resource Worldwide Ltd a recruitment company that specialises in front office recruitment, we deal with top tier banks, funds and brokers. To get into a fund you need a quant degree masters or phd. Also broking is very much a sales based role, you need to look at getting into institutional sales where its not about cold calling its contacting institutions then when accounts are opened to execute and advise.

Cold Calling is illegal, the private client brokers send out reports on stocks to people on a sharholders list ask if they want more information on their company to tick a box and there you go - a call you can make cold..

There are a few small cap brokers doing the job the right way but most are selling stock that will never make any money..