FTMO vs Darwinex

[FXforfun]

I won't call them scammers.

Neither do I. I just said that model is like another way of gambling. When I talked about scammers it was in regards of the BBC documentary where you saw the classical scam models to get rich fast.

Coming back to FTMO, I did a little more of research. Found this video where Scot Welsh the great, I love this guy, explains pretty clear pros and cons of that model. To me, the more I think about it the more I see this is a waste of time to me.

The video:

 

[CavaliereVerde]

It is even worse than the video because a risk of 5% per trade is very high and you would be kicked out because of daily DD even in the case of a winning month.
As it has been explained on the other topic once you win the account you have to trade very low risk to keep it so profits are very low.
For the challange the easiest way to produce 2-3 profitable months in a row is using a martingale and cross the fingers.
Traders with a real experince of many years would use these tricks: gambling in challange and low risk after challange.
BTW their average customers are not experienced traders, they are dreamers that think to be able to profit every month or gamblers, either way they will fail.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

For the challange the easiest way to produce 2-3 profitable months in a row is using a martingale and cross the fingers.

Why don't you try it if you think so?

Traders with a real experince of many years would use these tricks: gambling in challange and low risk after challange.

No, I have to disagree.
First because low risk does not create profit. No profit, no payout. No small profit, no small payout. No restart from scratch every month if they had losses, but starting with their losses until they violate the rules.

The truth ist that successful traders with a real experience of years of success don't run around on social trading platforms. The whole social trading industry including Darwinex is suffering from that.

Successful Darwinex traders aren't bad traders because they trade for Darwinex, but most of them can't fulfill the requirements of the prop firms. Their trading profile is very different to the profile of FTMO traders. Both is good and made for a specific type of trader, but hardly to compare seriously.

Unfortunaltely I have no access to the new feature of the FTMO top 10 list which should be published in the restricted area for FTMO traders. A trader is only listed there if he agrees to the listing. Maybe @trendie can read it. I'd be curious how much is paid for them every month.

 

[counter_violent]

Why don't you try it if you think so?


No, I have to disagree.
First because low risk does not create profit. No profit, no payout. No small profit, no small payout. No restart from scratch every month if they had losses, but starting with their losses until they violate the rules.

The truth ist that successful traders with a real experience of years of success don't run around on social trading platforms. The whole social trading industry including Darwinex is suffering from that.

Successful Darwinex traders aren't bad traders because they trade for Darwinex, but most of them can't fulfill the requirements of the prop firms. Their trading profile is very different to the profile of FTMO traders. Both is good and made for a specific type of trader, but hardly to compare seriously.

Unfortunaltely I have no access to the new feature of the FTMO top 10 list which should be published in the restricted area for FTMO traders. A trader is only listed there if he agrees to the listing. Maybe @trendie can read it. I'd be curious how much is paid for them every month.

To view a "listed trader" , would you not have had to pass the challenge and to be trading a real demo account?

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Why don't you try it if you think so?

Because I dont' like the concept.
I don't want to waste my time automating a martingale and I dont' to waste my money paying to partecipate to a demo contest.
Also Darwinia is a demo contest but what I am paying in commissions and swaps is much less the what I would pay for FTMO.

Successful Darwinex traders aren't bad traders because they trade for Darwinex, but most of them can't fulfill the requirements of the prop firms. Their trading profile is very different to the profile of FTMO traders. Both is good and made for a specific type of trader, but hardly to compare seriously.

I agree there are few good traders at Darwinex and I think there are no good traders at FTMO at all.
Because good traders know that requiring profitable months has nothing to do with real trading, it has nothing to do with skill.
The average FTMO trader is a dreamer with 3 months of trackrecord.
The average Darwinex trader is a dreamer with 9 months of trackrecord.

 

[The Erect Trader]

For the challange the easiest way to produce 2-3 profitable months in a row is using a martingale and cross the fingers.
Traders with a real experince of many years would use these tricks: gambling in challange and low risk after challange.

That's what i tried. I wanted to gamble by starting hard by doing 5/6% directly. But i wouldn't had gamble once i would have had the funded account. It didn't work.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

To view a "listed trader" , would you not have had to pass the challenge and to be trading a real demo account?

Yes, of course, as it is a restricted area , that's why I named @trendie.

 

[trendie]

Even though I am still on Challenge, there is a leaderboard.
Anyway, FTMO require a risk-hungry attitude to get the 10% in a month, and then another 5% in the next.
However, once this is achieved, the only stipulation are drawdown limits. There are no profit targets.
I think this 10% in a month is the thing that causes even seasoned traders to take the punt, and hopefully, get the funding on the backend. It screws with your mentality of accumulating gains gently, which is what we are taught, for a gambling attitude to get the funding.
I still think FTMO can be along-term play once the hurdles are overcome.

Note: They only list people with USD accounts, not EUR, nor GBP.

 

[The Erect Trader]

Almost only americans... Probably, that's better to trade in the USD currency (I already do that) but i think it's also profitable to trade in the US session, which is the afternoon in Europe. What do you think ?

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

Almost only americans... Probably, that's better to trade in the USD currency (I already do that) but i think it's also profitable to trade in the US session, which is the afternoon in Europe. What do you think ?

If you're trading indices as I do you can trade GER30.cash (German DAX) in the morning and US indices after 1:30 p.m. GMT.
If you want to trade currencies or Gold or Oil it depends on the day. I think the volume is coming in when the US stock markets open.
Note:
Americans are not eligible for Darwinex as traders or investors.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Americans are not eligible for Darwinex as traders or investors.

AFAIK there is no social trading at all for US residents.

• no Darwinex
• no eToro
• no PAMM/MAM

You need a license as CTA.
So for them the only way to go beyond their money is this kind of game prop.
The other reason is that it all begins with TopStepTrader.
Every other toy-prop is a clone of TST.
TST was designed in US to allow traders to trade futures that require a big account.
For a US trader without 10k or more TST was the only way to go.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

AFAIK there is no social trading at all for US residents.

• no Darwinex
• no eToro
• no PAMM/MAM

You need a license as CTA.

That's not right meanwhile:

 

[CavaliereVerde]

It is pretty recent.
I never bumped into etoro US popular investors but there are now.
->https://www.etoro.com/discover/peop...ntry=219&page=1&period=OneYearAgo&pagesize=20

BTW you got the point.
TST is a US idea so probably there are some specialists that now are going strong also with clones.

 

[counter_violent]

To view a "listed trader" , would you not have had to pass the challenge and to be trading a real demo account?

I guess everyone missed the irony !

 

[CavaliereVerde]

I guess everyone missed the irony !

I haven't missed it!
It is a game even if they are honest.
Proprietary trading is when a bank gives you its money to trade.
I think they pay because paying is very good marketing.
If thy dont' pay what can you do? sue them?
They are not a financial regulated entity.
They claim to collect skilled traders to run a real fund but where is that fund, where is the trackrecord?

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

I guess everyone missed the irony !

No, but u're wrong.
There's a difference between to "view" and to "be".
And another difference between to "pass" or to "pay" the challenge.
I didn't pass or pay the challenge until now so I can't watch this great reality show neartime.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

I didn't pass or pay the challenge until now so I can't watch this great reality show neartime.

I dont' think there is more to see beyond what @trendie has shown.
At Darwinex we can verify thousands of Darwins, not only the earnings of the top 10 in hall of fame.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

I dont' think there is more to see beyond what @trendie has shown.

I agree, about other FTMO traders there is not much more published - besides the success videos.

At Darwinex we can verify thousands of Darwins, not only the earnings of the top 10 in hall of fame.

Unfortunately you cannot verify the trading accounts of the Darwins besides digging deep in a due diligence of every single Darwin. Without doing that you cannot have an impression about the trader, even if the atrributes want to make the opposite visible.
The results at FTMO are much more encouraging than what you see at Darwinex.
Darwinex urgently needs changes including reversing at least parts of the Pivot stuff.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Unfortunately you cannot verify the trading accounts of the Darwins besides digging deep in a due diligence of every single Darwin.

You will never have the full picture of a trader, one could be a winner on Darwinex and a loser on 10 other brokers.

The results at FTMO are much more encouraging than what you see at Darwinex.

Not from what I see on their "hall of fame".
At Darwinex we have traders that earned 200k and we have traders managing real millions.
Probably FTMO is more funny because it is more funny to start from scratch every month.
Darwinex requires much more patience and persistence.

Darwinex urgently needs changes including reversing at least parts of the Pivot stuff.

That is a completely different story.
Convenience is lower but the concepts are the same as in 2015.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

At Darwinex we have traders that earned 200k and we have traders managing real millions.

.. within 5 or more years.

At FTMO the currently best trader made 139k in a month.
The point is that you can live from 139k a month much better than from 200k in 5 years.
And we are talking only about the top players with these figures.

As I said before ... hardly to compare seriously.

The social trading industry including Darwinex can be a nice second income for some part time traders, but the serious prop firms like FTMO are a chance to trade for a living.