EliteTrader VS Trade2win

[timsk]

Thanks for the feedback everyone - your points are duly noted - with the following comments . . .

. . . I don't personally care if some poster I don't even know, like or respect thinks I might be a fool, or even a dishonest fool. But their contributions here have undermined healthy debate and I dare say many old and new members are discouraged, one might say intimidated.

If matters don't immediately improve I'll take a 6 month break from the site.

Tom - you know I know you're a good guy - one of the best - and it pains me almost as much as you to see your integrity and motive for helping newbies being questioned. I will mention this to Sharky and recommend the Community Constitution (CC) is amended in a way that facilitates swift and decisive action by the Mods to ensure that attacks of this nature on members like you, barjon et al aren't allowed to continue.

If the assumption is incorrect in this case, then there must be some other reason for letting this sort of thing go on for so many months. As for considering Larry and their ilk, I've been a member since '03, and this is hardly the first occurrence (you may recall my being hounded by Albert Labos, which is the chief reason why I accepted the offer of my own forum elsewhere).

I hear you dbp. But believe me when I say that the 'other reason' that fl and his ilk don't get banned sooner has nothing to do with any misguided view about the number of posts, page views and the like. It's far more mundane and boring than that: it's all to do with the constraints of the CC as it stands, along with time and not wanting to make a rod for one's own back etc.

Since you're part of the "team", I'm surprised you haven't seen the stats. In any case, the "team" should revisit its mission statement as it is out of synch with events. As for the CC, its relative uselessness was established recently in the feedback thread (vague, open to interpretation, toothless) and again in the amount of time it took to move this particular mountain, which should under different circumstances have been a molehill. As for moderators claiming not to have the time to read posts and relying on members using the Report facility instead, it must also be clear by now that nobody is going to continue to report posts week after week, month after month, when nothing happens as a result of having reported the post(s).

I'm part of the team in name only these days: I no longer receive any remuneration from T2W and anything I do (precious little to be honest) is on a voluntary basis. I take your point about the re-active rather than pro-active nature of the Mods and, although I'm sure Sharky is aware of this, I'll make it clear that in your view at least this approach is not effective. I can't comment on posts that are reported but aren't acted upon - other than to say that the Mods look at the post and the reason given for reporting it and then make a decision about how best to proceed. Unfortunately, it's simply not practicable for them to respond to the reporting member explaining their actions (or lack thereof) and why.

You can come back if you like with how everybody's working so hard and everything is great but that has little to do with the perception on the members' side, which is that little control is exercised over the trolls which spoil the t2w experience. Why after all come here if doing so means stepping into a c*ck fight (and I'm not talking about roosters) or subjecting oneself to ridicule? Why write articles? Why initiate threads? These are questions the "team" ought to be addressing.

Noted.

Incidentally, deleting all Larrystone's posts and leaving those posts which quote them amounts to a rubber sword. There are more effective means of dealing with trolls that are known to any moderator. Even ten years ago (at least) the moderated post option was available in every forum software.

I believe Paul (Trader333) has addressed this already.

Words of wisdom

Personally I learnt long ago never to engage with the trolls and wreckers. It only gives them the attention they crave and encourages them to plummet to new depths of ignorance and foolishness.

Generally speaking Richard - I completely agree with you. However . . .
Whenever I spot a member criticising T2W, its staff or Mods - I will step in and comment as, (rightly or wrongly), I consider it part of my job to explain our position so that members can weigh up both sides of the argument. If I didn't do that and challenge what I perceive very often to be false allegations then, to my mind, it looks weak and some members may wonder if there's some truth in the allegations being made. It's then a short hop, jump and a skip to conclude that the site, staff and mods are all in the pockets or the spread bet firms - or whatever. So that's why I responded as I did to Larry a few pages back. As and when I revert to normal member status - I will probably do as you advise and stay out of these 'discussions' altogether.

Hopefully, some changes for the better will be made in due course. As always, your patience is appreciated - and please don't let idiots stop you from posting or, worse still, drive you away from the forum. Almost certainly, that's their agenda - so let's not give them that satisfaction!
Tim.

 

[barjon]

Tim

I don't know what's contraining about the CC. It's difficult to conclude that hundreds of recent posts haven't offended against 1.01, 1.02 and 1.03. All that's required is for a tough line to be taken - it's not necessary to be "fair" since, as 1.04 and 1.11 make clear this isn't a freedom of speech site and anything that makes it a worse place to be, can be stopped at your discretion.

Rather than relying on the tortuous interpretation of the written words I would far prefer to rely on the good sense of our moderators to decide what's best in the interests of members and T2W. They'll get it wrong occasionally but not a fraction as much as trying to adhere to a fair interpretation of the CC has done recently.

"Community Constitution
The T2W forum is a place to share information, seek help and contribute to everyone’s development as a Trader. We are a community and should behave like one.

We want T2W to be a place where you can discuss trading, free from nasty comments and people trying to sell you things.

Following these basic rules will make sure that we achieve this aim together.

1.01 People have a right to be treated properly. Forums are notorious for human beings behaving badly toward each other. We don’t want this on T2W. If you don’t like someone, think their question is stupid, have had a bad day and whatever else you think excuses bad behaviour then deal with it some other way. If it appears on the forums and crosses a line then you can expect it to be dealt with by us.

1.02 Don’t feed the trolls. Every community has a small but very vocal number of people who add nothing of value. They deliberately cause trouble and offence and clearly have little else to do with their time. Your job is not to rise to the bait. Ignore them and report them. They will soon get fed up and go somewhere else.

1.03 Don’t post rubbish. This isn’t You Tube, it is a site dedicated to Trading and should be treated as such. There are plenty of places where you can post whatever you like. We don’t want it here unless it is about trading.

1.04 This isn’t a freedom of speech site. We can be liable for what you post and this could cost us a lot of money. We may have to delete things to protect us from this. So if you want to campaign freely and be allowed to say whatever you like then you will have to find somewhere else to do it. This does not mean you can’t express an opinion, just do so sensibly and within the rules.

1.05 Make sure you follow the posting guidelines. They are there for a reason and it gets annoying when posts appear all over the place and/or in the wrong place. This is not asking much so do your bit for everyone’s benefit.

1.06 No selling allowed. Any form of selling is unacceptable. The forum has to be a safe place; it can’t be this if you are trying to sell your products and services. If you see this happening then report it and it will be dealt with. There’s more about this in the separate vendor policy (Vendor Policy)

1.07 Don’t abuse our team. We have a duty of care for all the members of our team and will not tolerate any form of abuse directed at them. This is a zero tolerance policy so don’t do it. Also we don’t respond to aggression or threats, stay polite and you will be fine.

1.08 If you break the rules expect to be dealt with. Depending on what you have done, you may be warned, suspended for a short time or banned completely. This is regardless of how long you have been a member and how much you have contributed. And don’t forget we depend on you to report things that you feel have broken the rules as we can’t spot everything.

1.09 It is how you behave that counts. We don’t have the time to investigate why you might feel a certain way or who may be right or wrong in a given situation. So, we will look at what you actually do, how you conduct yourself and react accordingly. No solution is ideal and we want to allow full and frank discussion but if we have to step in and police things we will.

1.10 Don’t be harsh with newcomers. We do all we can to guide new members but they will still post what appear to be the wrong questions often in the wrong place. Show some tolerance and help if you can, treating them harshly is against what we stand for so don’t do it. If you think they are not genuine, report them.

1.11 Posting on T2W is a privilege not a right. This is a privately owned site and nobody has to pay to be here. Any inappropriate posts or any issues that take up a disproportionate amount of site resources, or make it a worse place to be, can be stopped at our discretion. We have to prioritise our spend and will not waste valuable resources dealing with things that do not warrant it. For this reason, if you use TOR (the anonymity network) and start any kind of trolling activity you will be banned immediately (since it's highly likely you're a multi-nick, which means you've had all the warnings in a previous incarnation and don't deserve the same chances as others)."

 

[dbphoenix]

I hear you dbp. But believe me when I say that the 'other reason' that fl and his ilk don't get banned sooner has nothing to do with any misguided view about the number of posts, page views and the like. It's far more mundane and boring than that: it's all to do with the constraints of the CC as it stands, along with time and not wanting to make a rod for one's own back etc.

CC or no CC, five months is unacceptable.

I take your point about the re-active rather than pro-active nature of the Mods and, although I'm sure Sharky is aware of this, I'll make it clear that in your view at least this approach is not effective.

One needn't rely on my view. One need only look at TL. You've said that TL and t2w are two different websites, but the same mistakes are being made here as when James sold TL in '10. James was a trader and spent a great deal of time on his site. He always knew what was going on. He always knew where the problems were. His idea of organizing much of TL in large categories and putting an interested moderator in charge of each (e.g., a Market Profile trader becomes a Market Profile moderator in charge of the Market Profile Forum) solved a great many problems. The new owners spent hardly any time on the site at all after a while. Eventually none. Their moderators ditto. And one can see where TL ended up. This is not to say that Paul has to spend every waking moment onboard like Baron Robertson does. But websites that are run by absentee landlords provide unpleasant surprises.

I make my views known (generally the same ones) and you make your views known (generally the same ones) and I reiterate my views and you reiterate yours and so on until everyone gets tired of hearing about it. But nothing is done and eventually we start all over again. I have no bone to pick with Paul nor have I ever had any conflicts with T333. But somebody has to be here. Someone has to be interested enough in the site to follow the threads and read the posts and see who's new and who's making an unusually large number of posts. Relying on members to report posts in order to keep on top of it all just isn't going to work. That any of this should come as a surprise speaks for itself.

 

[Atilla]

Just out of curiosity, (haven't been following all the threads) what was the reason for banning FL?

 

[timsk]

I don't know what's constraining about the CC. It's difficult to conclude that hundreds of recent posts haven't offended against 1.01, 1.02 and 1.03. All that's required is for a tough line to be taken - it's not necessary to be "fair" since, as 1.04 and 1.11 make clear this isn't a freedom of speech site and anything that makes it a worse place to be, can be stopped at your discretion. . .

CC or no CC, five months is unacceptable. . .
. . .One needn't rely on my view. . .

Hi Jon & dbp,
Thanks for your thoughts. Personally, I agree with much of what you say but, as you both well know, I'm not a Moderator and so I have absolutely no say in who is issued with infraction points and bans etc. The only people who can address your points and offer any meaningful insight into all of this are the Mods themselves.

Tim.

 

[Oscar Reed]

Hi Jon & dbp,
Thanks for your thoughts. Personally, I agree with much of what you say but, as you both well know, I'm not a Moderator and so I have absolutely no say in who is issued with infraction points and bans etc. The only people who can address your points and offer any meaningful insight into all of this are the Mods themselves.

Tim.

Hi Tim

What is the difference between a mod and staff at T2W.
Sorry if it's been asked before.


Cheers
Oscar

 

[Mr. Charts]

Tim,

"Whenever I spot a member criticising T2W, its staff or Mods - I will step in and comment as, (rightly or wrongly), I consider it part of my job to explain our position so that members can weigh up both sides of the argument. If I didn't do that and challenge what I perceive very often to be false allegations then, to my mind, it looks weak and some members may wonder if there's some truth in the allegations being made. It's then a short hop, jump and a skip to conclude that the site, staff and mods are all in the pockets or the spread bet firms - or whatever. So that's why I responded as I did to Larry a few pages back. As and when I revert to normal member status - I will probably do as you advise and stay out of these 'discussions' altogether."

And you are totally right to do so.
Once you're a "normal" member you'll enjoy more peace and time not spent dealing with morons and life-wasters
Richard

 

[EnlightenedJoe]

Just out of curiosity, (haven't been following all the threads) what was the reason for banning FL?

At a guess he probably mentioned stooge once too often.

 

[timsk]

What is the difference between a mod and staff at T2W.
Sorry if it's been asked before.

Hi Oscar,
No, to the best of my knowledge, you're the first! In the context of this discussion - and in a nutshell - staff draft the Community Constitution (CC) and the Mods implement it. The idea behind this is that Mods are objective and act on their own completely independently of staff. This is important as the clear division between the two helps to ensure a level playing field for everyone and avoid the sorts of accusations made by Larrystone that I addressed in this post. Mods have nothing to gain by allowing trolls to run amock on the one hand, while banning good members on the other.

That's the theory at least. In practice, it doesn't prevent the accusation that Mods and staff are in cahoots and act in concert to feather their own nests. If you believe half the conspiracy theories promulgated on T2W over the years, you'd think that we're perpetually being showered with all manner of 'inducements' from ne'er-do-wells with a commercial agenda. Nothing could be further from the truth. I confess, at a personal level, I'm rather disappointed that even though I've been on the staff since 2009, not once have I been offered so much as half a pint of mild - let alone a brown envelope stuffed with tenners - to get someone banned or to allow a scammer to post freely etc.
Tim.

 

[sminicooper]

I'm rather disappointed that even though I've been on the staff since 2009, not once have I been offered so much as half a pint of mild - let alone a brown envelope stuffed with tenners - to get someone banned or to allow a scammer to post freely etc.
Tim.

Tim, I'd certainly have offered you a couple of pints to have done a few bannings!

On a more serious note it's been disappointing to see the way things have been going over recent times. The Mods have a difficult job – unpaid and mostly unthanked and as far as I can see, finding it very difficult to please the awkward squad.

I would suggest that things need to change – what's happened to the old days? It seemed to be okay then! I get the impression that some posters are just out to make trouble and squabble with whoever is willing to engage – as far as I'm concerned they're not wanted round here. We have the ludicrous situation where people are posting in quantities which just make a mockery of any informed or reasoned debate. I would suggest for starters, until things have calmed down and a return to some semblance of normality has occurred: that posters are limited to a maximum of five posts per day. And troublemakers be summarily closed down.

I wonder what the sponsors (who presumably pay the bills) think of the situation? If they take fright then eventually there will be no T2W and the trolls will have won. I don't want that and neither would anybody else with a serious interest in trading.

 

[dbphoenix]

Hi Jon & dbp,
Thanks for your thoughts. Personally, I agree with much of what you say but, as you both well know, I'm not a Moderator and so I have absolutely no say in who is issued with infraction points and bans etc. The only people who can address your points and offer any meaningful insight into all of this are the Mods themselves.

Tim.

As you've said repeatedly, and I believe I speak for Jon when I say that we are well aware that you are not a moderator and have no authority. However, you are the only member of the "team" to respond to these concerns, and since the Tower remains silent and declines to engage the membership regarding these concerns, it is not difficult to understand the inevitable frustration. It's so much easier to just leave. Would it be quieter that way? Again, just look at the course that TL followed (usually when I log in to check for messages, I'm the only one there). Yes, the only people who can address our points and offer any meaningful insight into all of this are the mods (or anyone else on the "team") themselves. But they don't. Why they don't is a mystery. But because they don't these discussions go on and on and on.

That's the theory at least. In practice, it doesn't prevent the accusation that Mods and staff are in cahoots and act in concert to feather their own nests. If you believe half the conspiracy theories promulgated on T2W over the years, you'd think that we're perpetually being showered with all manner of 'inducements' from ne'er-do-wells with a commercial agenda.

No one but a troll would make this sort of accusation. And anyone who'd ever been to futures.io would never think of making it. That to me is not the problem. The problem is the lack of response, the silence, all of which suggests apathy, and a wish that the complainers would simply go away. And that is most often the outcome, and they are quickly forgotten.

It has been said that the heyday of the online trading forum is long gone, and that certainly appears to be the case, given the type of people who populate online trading forums these days. The question then becomes where someone who has a genuine interest in how markets work and isn't seduced by all the geegaws and Siren calls goes to study and learn and associate with experienced traders. If there are no longer any such places, more's the pity.

 

[Jason Rogers]

Maybe you didnt notice that FXCM's rep didnt post here for over 2 months , however apparently he is still active in other forums . Is that a sign ? Maybe .

Hi Tar,

I’m still here and happy to help when someone has questions about FXCM. I’ve found it’s just been quiet lately around here. Maybe everyone’s trading Bitcoin lately lol. Although with today’s GBP movements the forex market may be heating up.

Jason

 

[fibo_trader]

I suggested a competition but no answer from Baron.

T2W would lose badly. No contest in almost all aspects.

Creativity
Diverse trading threads that actually do have a decent % of real time trades
Humor is where ET shines like a star. NO contest. In fact with just this one quality, all ET's sins if any are easily forgiven.
The Jokes thread in both T2W and ET is worthless.
Just 5 threads in the Forex section can beat all of T2W with ease and verve.
T2W has the best moderator. ET used to have a good one but he's now just a regular poster as owner would not take his suggestions.

Activity? Staggering difference. T2W is a graveyard in comparison.
Baron gets involved in many threads - that's a good thing. Likable fellow. Feedback Forum is top-notch for lightning fast response.

Wall Street language is less tolerated nowadays at ET but at T2W its mostly only nun-talk that's allowed.

Still, one should have BOTH forums.

 

[fibo_trader]

Bottom line in almost all regards when comparing T2W (UK) to ET (USA): its the only formula that fits ..... I've tried others but they all fail miserably ........... this one encompasses everything from top-notch creativity to extreme madness and everything else in between


Comparing the UK to the USA is akin to comparing a frog's p**sy to the Panama Canal.

The only comeback T2W could have with the above is that a frog's p***y is tighter - and they'd be right.

 

[fibo_trader]

On T2W , on elite trader they are given to posters.

RTFLMAO!

P R I C E L E S S!

 

[fibo_trader]

RTFLMAO!

P R I C E L E S S!

missing quote text .................. On T2W the likes are given to content

 

[fibo_trader]

Here we talk about profitable and successful trading.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/gen...t-suceeded-95-traders-fail-4.html#post2903246

RTFLMAO!!!!! P R I C E L E S S!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But its only TALK. All bullshit. All dissertations, generalities, no specific entry/exit trades. Not one of you got the balls to bring your trading records to the T2W party in London

At ET I got PMs from 18 traders willing to meet in LA for a weekend party and bring their records with them. Meeting was set for Malibu.

 

[fibo_trader]

I wouldn't call the attempt feeble. While other sites are doing pretty much as well as they have since April (when FL registered), t2w has been in steady decline. Letting this sort of thing go on in the assumption that it increases the number of clicks, time spent on site, number of page views and so on, or that it makes no difference re web traffic, is not supported.

The free speech contingent may cheer the lack of moderation, but it is not good business.

Nobody in their right mind would want to damage T2W. Its a fine place. Just no comparison to ET, is all. That it has been in steady decline, you would know. for me its just too f***ing DEAD and loaded to the hilt with sissies who I'd line up and drill in one shot if allowed. Wake up clowns!

>>>> The free speech contingent may cheer the lack of moderation, but it is not good business. <<<<<<

f***in clown, you can't even see when you have a moderator of substance. SEAMLESS. And he might not even be getting paid and has to read your and my and everyone eles' bullshit all day long week in and week out. 5-star mod (5 being tops) is what this cat is.

 

[fibo_trader]

Let's hope BOTH forums stay alive and flourish and prosper.

 

[fibo_trader]

T2W and ET are both 5-star hotels with services galore including spa, steam, sauna, excellent restaurants and whatnot. the views are fantastic,

But there is no control over the deadbeats that rent apartments at either place. In this regard both are doomed. But its not the fault of the owners or management.

T2W wins hands down in terms of quality staff.

Just my 2 centavos