Psychology Does The Bible Oppose Trading?

A Christian Traders' Dilemma

I recently heard a story about a Texas hold'em poker player trying to reconcile the apparent contradiction between his Christian faith, which opposes gambling, and his desire to be a professional card player. With a bit of humility, he explained, When I sit down at that table, Jesus tells me, 'Son, you're on your own'.

As a Christian, my role as a steward of God's resources gives me pause about gambling. And as a trading coach, I continue to receive phone calls and emails from suffering traders who equate their trading with gambling. They ask me, Bill, do you think it's because God is against trading that I'm continually losing money? Does the Bible forbid trading?

Generally speaking, gambling is the hope that you will win a wager in a game of chance where the likelihood of profit is not better than 50%. Trading, on the other hand, is the diligent application of knowledge, wisdom, patience and self control in the execution of transactions such that the likelihood of consistent profits, with proper money management, is at least 75% (some go a bit lower).

Are there traders who trade like gamblers? Absolutely! These are the folks who call me and want to blame their trading losses on God's wrath instead of on their own inability or unwillingness to exercise disciple. They associate trading with gambling because they trade like gamblers.

Are there gamblers who gamble like traders? You bet (pun intended). Let me give you an example:
My father is an exceptional Texas hold'em poker player. This is the incredibly popular card game where a player can bet all of his chips using the now well known phrase, I'm all in and my Dad's success at the game can be attributed to three things:

(1) a clear plan of action,
(2) an ability to wait patiently for the right cards and
(3) the knowledge of how to maximize the opportunity that those cards present.

A clear plan of action
When my Dad plays Texas hold'em at the local riverboat casino, he treats it like a business. He goes with a predetermined amount of money in his pocket. He has a specific goal: to double his money. As soon as he does this, he immediately leaves, even if it's within the first 30 minutes. If he losses his bankroll, he leaves. If he is there for 7 hours and has not doubled his money or lost his bankroll, he doesn't hit the local ATM. He just leaves.

An ability to wait for the right cards
My Dad will sometimes throw away 10 or more hands in a row before playing a hand. He will wait and wait until the right cards come along.
The other card players at the table are eager to gamble. They are there for the action. My Dad knows this. He knows they will play lesser quality hands because they want to play, not sit around and wait. Therefore, by patiently waiting for the right cards, the chances for success are skewed in my Dad's favor.

The knowledge of how to maximize the opportunity
You would think that when the other players at a table see my Dad bet a hand after throwing away ten hands, they would be scared off. Hardly. Remember, virtually everyone else at the table is there to gamble, not run a side business like my Dad. Once my Dad gets a hand he wants to play, he employs a betting strategy to maximize the profit potential of his hand.
I am not endorsing gambling, nor do I necessarily approve of my Dad's card playing. But the reality is, my Dad is more responsible as a gambler than most traders are as traders. This description of how my Dad plays Texas hold'em sounds more like how successful traders trade than how gamblers gamble.

Examples of trading found in the Bible
The Bible references many nuances of trading that we are familiar with. For example, in both the Old and New Testaments we find that the Bible describes centralized trading locations, trading of proprietary accounts, and trading of specific commodities. A good illustration to help us answer the question, Does God oppose trading? comes from the Parable of the Ten Minas found in the New Testament book of Luke, which deals with the concept of proprietary accounts.
Jesus used parables to deliver Kingdom principles using earthly illustrations. Jesus used earthly subject matter that the crowds were familiar with. This only makes sense. If Jesus chose an earthly subject matter that the people were unfamiliar with, He would be stuck having to explain both sides of the parable.

Trading of proprietary accounts
Several traders that I traded with on the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange had financial backers. In return for financial backing, these traders gave up 50% or more of their trading profits, but could receive a bonus at the end of the year based on their performance. The accounts were generically called proprietary, or prop accounts.
Many Wall Street traders trade the capital of large banks. These, too, are commonly referred to as proprietary accounts. These traders often receive an annual salary and a bonus at the end of the year base upon their performance.

The Parable of the Ten Minas paints a remarkably similar picture. In Luke 19:12 13 (NIV) we read, He [Jesus] said, 'A man of noble birth went into a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas. The king tells them, Buy and sell with these while I go and return (Amplified). When the king returned he called for the servants in order to find out what they had gained with it (verse 15). The first one came forth and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned ten more'. This servant was commended for his work and put in charge of 10 cities. The second came and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned five more'. This servant was commended for his work as well and put in charge of five cities. Just like today's proprietary account traders, both the first and the second servant received a bonus based upon their trading performance. Let's be clear, this is not a parable teaching us that we should all be traders. For the purposes of our discussion, I am highlighting the fact that:

(1) these servants were told to actively buy and sell to generate profits and
(2) that the trading of what we now call proprietary accounts was understood by those Jesus was speaking to. Jesus felt that the crowd understood the concept of people trading other peoples' money well enough to use it as the subject matter of his allegory.

Are you called to trade?
So does the Bible oppose trading? I can't come to that conclusion given all that the Bible has to say about trading. But the Apostle Paul points us to an even more important question. In Romans 14:14, the Apostle Paul is addressing the debate about particular foods being clean and unclean. He says, As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean.
Are you fully convinced that God does not oppose trading? Do you regard trading as unclean? Do you have hesitations in your spirit about the matter? Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin (Romans 14:22 23, NIV).

The question you need to ask is, Is it settled in my heart that God has released me to be a trader? If you doubt but still trade, you are not trading from a position of faith, and without faith it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6).

If you are unsure if God has released you to trade, take some time to settle the matter with God. When you sit down to trade, you don't want to hear, Son, you're on your own. Better that you should hear, Well done good and faithful servant.

Bill Provenzano can be contacted through his website at www.UpsideBreakout.com
 
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And I thought we'd had enough of that stuff with fcta........now it's on the front page !
 
and if you were to find T2W for the very first time today and saw that article on the home page what kind of 'message' d'ya reckon it sends out...

That would depend on who you are. There are any number of threads that could also give any number of different messages about this site.


Paul
 
And I thought we'd had enough of that stuff with fcta........now it's on the front page !

The message being given by fcta is very different to this article. The article is about the morals of trading where fcta is about a supposed methodology of trading that has come from God.


Paul
 
Wow! Quite a response.

As the author of this article, my intention was to shed some light on a topic that is important to many.

There is a large subset of traders for whom religion and faith is not limited to a 60 minute Sunday church service, but extends into every area of life, including trading. Just because you might be unaware of this does not diminish its reality. With over 2,300 verses that relate to money, for them (and me) the Bible is a source of instruction that we can apply to trading.

But it’s not just the verses about money that are relevant. There are verses that speak about particular characteristics that, as traders, we need to develop to be successful.

For example, “Mr. Charts”, A Legendary member of Trade2Win with nearly 4,000 posts says the following:

“Above all you need self-control and the humility to realise you are not the master of the markets..”

I could not agree more! These are two very important characteristics of a successful trader. And the Bible speaks directly about humility and self-control.

“Above all you need self-control” – Mr. Charts
“But the fruit of the Spirit is …self control” Galatians 5:23

“…and the humility to realize you are not master of the markets…” – Mr. Charts
“Do not think of yourselves more highly than you ought…” Romans 12:3

I say all of this not to try win you over to my camp, but to hopefully shed some light on how the Bible and trading intersect, and to speak to those traders for whom this is important.

I always enjoy a good, respectful dialogue and thank those members who responded constructively. To those who choose to be more abrasive: I spent 15 years trading on the floor of the CME. I’ve got thick skin.

Bill Provenzano
 
The message being given by fcta is very different to this article. The article is about the morals of trading where fcta is about a supposed methodology of trading that has come from God.


Paul

Yes, indeed, Paul, I understand that.
In my personal view, politics and religion should be confined on a trading site to specific threads where people can choose to read, comment or ignore.
I don't think it should be so up front on the title page of a site like this. But, hey, that's just a personal opinion, I'm not saying I'm "right", it's just an opinion.
Richard
 
Wow! Quite a response.

As the author of this article, my intention was to shed some light on a topic that is important to many.

There is a large subset of traders for whom religion and faith is not limited to a 60 minute Sunday church service, but extends into every area of life, including trading. Just because you might be unaware of this does not diminish its reality. With over 2,300 verses that relate to money, for them (and me) the Bible is a source of instruction that we can apply to trading.

But it’s not just the verses about money that are relevant. There are verses that speak about particular characteristics that, as traders, we need to develop to be successful.

For example, “Mr. Charts”, A Legendary member of Trade2Win with nearly 4,000 posts says the following:

“Above all you need self-control and the humility to realise you are not the master of the markets..”

I could not agree more! These are two very important characteristics of a successful trader. And the Bible speaks directly about humility and self-control.

“Above all you need self-control” – Mr. Charts
“But the fruit of the Spirit is …self control” Galatians 5:23

“…and the humility to realize you are not master of the markets…” – Mr. Charts
“Do not think of yourselves more highly than you ought…” Romans 12:3

I say all of this not to try win you over to my camp, but to hopefully shed some light on how the Bible and trading intersect, and to speak to those traders for whom this is important.

I always enjoy a good, respectful dialogue and thank those members who responded constructively. To those who choose to be more abrasive: I spent 15 years trading on the floor of the CME. I’ve got thick skin.

Bill Provenzano

I'm flattered you read some of my posts. I'll respond later, back to trading now.
Richard
 
Wow! Quite a response.

As the author of this article, my intention was to shed some light on a topic that is important to many.

There is a large subset of traders for whom religion and faith is not limited to a 60 minute Sunday church service, but extends into every area of life, including trading. Just because you might be unaware of this does not diminish its reality. With over 2,300 verses that relate to money, for them (and me) the Bible is a source of instruction that we can apply to trading.

But it’s not just the verses about money that are relevant. There are verses that speak about particular characteristics that, as traders, we need to develop to be successful.

For example, “Mr. Charts”, A Legendary member of Trade2Win with nearly 4,000 posts says the following:

“Above all you need self-control and the humility to realise you are not the master of the markets..”

I could not agree more! These are two very important characteristics of a successful trader. And the Bible speaks directly about humility and self-control.

“Above all you need self-control” – Mr. Charts
“But the fruit of the Spirit is …self control” Galatians 5:23

“…and the humility to realize you are not master of the markets…” – Mr. Charts
“Do not think of yourselves more highly than you ought…” Romans 12:3

I say all of this not to try win you over to my camp, but to hopefully shed some light on how the Bible and trading intersect, and to speak to those traders for whom this is important.

I always enjoy a good, respectful dialogue and thank those members who responded constructively. To those who choose to be more abrasive: I spent 15 years trading on the floor of the CME. I’ve got thick skin.

Bill Provenzano

How would you respond if I said these things (self-control and humility) were present in the human make-up and had nothing to do with religion?
 
There is a large subset of traders for whom religion and faith is not limited to a 60 minute Sunday church service, but extends into every area of life, including trading. Just because you might be unaware of this does not diminish its reality. With over 2,300 verses that relate to money, for them (and me) the Bible is a source of instruction that we can apply to trading.

Fundamentalism, pure and simple.
 
How would you respond if I said these things (self-control and humility) were present in the human make-up and had nothing to do with religion?

I would say that, while humility and self-control are present in our make-up, we can develope and deepen these traits.

For the purpose of this conversation, I'll limit the subjest to trading, but we can easily extend into family life, work life, etc. I'll ask you: are you as patient as you would like to be/need to be when you trade? Do you exercise enough self-control?

For those who answer "no", then clearly there needs to be some mechanism to develope these traits. And again, for those of us who look to the Bible and our faith, it seems quite impossible to say that these traits have nothing to do with religion. The Bible instructs us to be patient, humble and self controlled, but it doesn't stop there. It gives instruction on how to be patient, humble and self-controlled.

Thank you for the dialogue.
 
having a good old w@nk teaches me self-control and patience (apologies for bringing the tone down a bit) but for me religion does not do this. i am sceptical about religion but am aware that many people draw inspiration from very different sources. i guess what i'm trying to say is religion is not for me and applying it to trading is like comparing apples and pears. you're abviously not an idiot having been on the merc for 15 years so fair play-if it works, it works.
 
"you're obviously not an idiot" is probably the best comment I've gotten so far!
 
Wow! Quite a response.

As the author of this article, my intention was to shed some light on a topic that is important to many.

There is a large subset of traders for whom religion and faith is not limited to a 60 minute Sunday church service, but extends into every area of life, including trading. Just because you might be unaware of this does not diminish its reality. With over 2,300 verses that relate to money, for them (and me) the Bible is a source of instruction that we can apply to trading.

But it’s not just the verses about money that are relevant. There are verses that speak about particular characteristics that, as traders, we need to develop to be successful.

For example, “Mr. Charts”, A Legendary member of Trade2Win with nearly 4,000 posts says the following:

“Above all you need self-control and the humility to realise you are not the master of the markets..”

I could not agree more! These are two very important characteristics of a successful trader. And the Bible speaks directly about humility and self-control.

“Above all you need self-control” – Mr. Charts
“But the fruit of the Spirit is …self control” Galatians 5:23

“…and the humility to realize you are not master of the markets…” – Mr. Charts
“Do not think of yourselves more highly than you ought…” Romans 12:3

I say all of this not to try win you over to my camp, but to hopefully shed some light on how the Bible and trading intersect, and to speak to those traders for whom this is important.

I always enjoy a good, respectful dialogue and thank those members who responded constructively. To those who choose to be more abrasive: I spent 15 years trading on the floor of the CME. I’ve got thick skin.

Bill Provenzano

respect Jules :D
Jules: There's a passage I got memorized. Ezekiel 25:17. "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."


jules.jpg
 
respect Jules :D
Jules: There's a passage I got memorized. Ezekiel 25:17. "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."


jules.jpg



GREAT Movie!!
 
Okaly-dokily

anyone else think that a picture of the immortal Flanders should have accompanied the article? What would Ned have thought of trading? Withcraft I reckon, look what he did to Harry Potter :-0

Ned: [reading] Harry Potter, and all his wizard friends, went straight to Hell for practicing witchcraft.
Todd:Yay! [Ned throws the book into the burning fireplace]

Although curiously he does appear to have a soft spot for scalpers :D

Todd: Daddy, what are taxes paying for?
Ned: Ohoho... everything! Policemen, trees, sunshine, and let's not forget the folks who just don't feel like working, God bless 'em

user3148_1167257175.jpg
 
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