Psychology Does The Bible Oppose Trading?

A Christian Traders' Dilemma

I recently heard a story about a Texas hold'em poker player trying to reconcile the apparent contradiction between his Christian faith, which opposes gambling, and his desire to be a professional card player. With a bit of humility, he explained, When I sit down at that table, Jesus tells me, 'Son, you're on your own'.

As a Christian, my role as a steward of God's resources gives me pause about gambling. And as a trading coach, I continue to receive phone calls and emails from suffering traders who equate their trading with gambling. They ask me, Bill, do you think it's because God is against trading that I'm continually losing money? Does the Bible forbid trading?

Generally speaking, gambling is the hope that you will win a wager in a game of chance where the likelihood of profit is not better than 50%. Trading, on the other hand, is the diligent application of knowledge, wisdom, patience and self control in the execution of transactions such that the likelihood of consistent profits, with proper money management, is at least 75% (some go a bit lower).

Are there traders who trade like gamblers? Absolutely! These are the folks who call me and want to blame their trading losses on God's wrath instead of on their own inability or unwillingness to exercise disciple. They associate trading with gambling because they trade like gamblers.

Are there gamblers who gamble like traders? You bet (pun intended). Let me give you an example:
My father is an exceptional Texas hold'em poker player. This is the incredibly popular card game where a player can bet all of his chips using the now well known phrase, I'm all in and my Dad's success at the game can be attributed to three things:

(1) a clear plan of action,
(2) an ability to wait patiently for the right cards and
(3) the knowledge of how to maximize the opportunity that those cards present.

A clear plan of action
When my Dad plays Texas hold'em at the local riverboat casino, he treats it like a business. He goes with a predetermined amount of money in his pocket. He has a specific goal: to double his money. As soon as he does this, he immediately leaves, even if it's within the first 30 minutes. If he losses his bankroll, he leaves. If he is there for 7 hours and has not doubled his money or lost his bankroll, he doesn't hit the local ATM. He just leaves.

An ability to wait for the right cards
My Dad will sometimes throw away 10 or more hands in a row before playing a hand. He will wait and wait until the right cards come along.
The other card players at the table are eager to gamble. They are there for the action. My Dad knows this. He knows they will play lesser quality hands because they want to play, not sit around and wait. Therefore, by patiently waiting for the right cards, the chances for success are skewed in my Dad's favor.

The knowledge of how to maximize the opportunity
You would think that when the other players at a table see my Dad bet a hand after throwing away ten hands, they would be scared off. Hardly. Remember, virtually everyone else at the table is there to gamble, not run a side business like my Dad. Once my Dad gets a hand he wants to play, he employs a betting strategy to maximize the profit potential of his hand.
I am not endorsing gambling, nor do I necessarily approve of my Dad's card playing. But the reality is, my Dad is more responsible as a gambler than most traders are as traders. This description of how my Dad plays Texas hold'em sounds more like how successful traders trade than how gamblers gamble.

Examples of trading found in the Bible
The Bible references many nuances of trading that we are familiar with. For example, in both the Old and New Testaments we find that the Bible describes centralized trading locations, trading of proprietary accounts, and trading of specific commodities. A good illustration to help us answer the question, Does God oppose trading? comes from the Parable of the Ten Minas found in the New Testament book of Luke, which deals with the concept of proprietary accounts.
Jesus used parables to deliver Kingdom principles using earthly illustrations. Jesus used earthly subject matter that the crowds were familiar with. This only makes sense. If Jesus chose an earthly subject matter that the people were unfamiliar with, He would be stuck having to explain both sides of the parable.

Trading of proprietary accounts
Several traders that I traded with on the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange had financial backers. In return for financial backing, these traders gave up 50% or more of their trading profits, but could receive a bonus at the end of the year based on their performance. The accounts were generically called proprietary, or prop accounts.
Many Wall Street traders trade the capital of large banks. These, too, are commonly referred to as proprietary accounts. These traders often receive an annual salary and a bonus at the end of the year base upon their performance.

The Parable of the Ten Minas paints a remarkably similar picture. In Luke 19:12 13 (NIV) we read, He [Jesus] said, 'A man of noble birth went into a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas. The king tells them, Buy and sell with these while I go and return (Amplified). When the king returned he called for the servants in order to find out what they had gained with it (verse 15). The first one came forth and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned ten more'. This servant was commended for his work and put in charge of 10 cities. The second came and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned five more'. This servant was commended for his work as well and put in charge of five cities. Just like today's proprietary account traders, both the first and the second servant received a bonus based upon their trading performance. Let's be clear, this is not a parable teaching us that we should all be traders. For the purposes of our discussion, I am highlighting the fact that:

(1) these servants were told to actively buy and sell to generate profits and
(2) that the trading of what we now call proprietary accounts was understood by those Jesus was speaking to. Jesus felt that the crowd understood the concept of people trading other peoples' money well enough to use it as the subject matter of his allegory.

Are you called to trade?
So does the Bible oppose trading? I can't come to that conclusion given all that the Bible has to say about trading. But the Apostle Paul points us to an even more important question. In Romans 14:14, the Apostle Paul is addressing the debate about particular foods being clean and unclean. He says, As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean.
Are you fully convinced that God does not oppose trading? Do you regard trading as unclean? Do you have hesitations in your spirit about the matter? Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin (Romans 14:22 23, NIV).

The question you need to ask is, Is it settled in my heart that God has released me to be a trader? If you doubt but still trade, you are not trading from a position of faith, and without faith it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6).

If you are unsure if God has released you to trade, take some time to settle the matter with God. When you sit down to trade, you don't want to hear, Son, you're on your own. Better that you should hear, Well done good and faithful servant.

Bill Provenzano can be contacted through his website at www.UpsideBreakout.com
 
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Everything is a gamble...

Actually, perhaps it's rather cheeky of [a] God to desire one not to trade on the financial markets...

I mean, at no point in anyone's life, do they not trade/gamble in some form or another...

Trade: Working for someone
Gamble: You won't get paid at the end of the week

Trade: Crossing the road to catch the bus as it's departing
Gamble: Could get knocked down as you rush across the road

Trade: Getting married (the emotional and [usually] financial investment)
Gamble: (s)he may run off with someone else after 1 year or 20 years

Everything is a trade-off or gamble...

Why on earth would trading on the financial markets be any different???

For me, I can think of no greater gamble than disregarding almost everything I know to be true about life/science/etc and take my guidance from a 2000 year-old [contradictory and overall offensive] piece of text... with the chance that I may get to spend eternity in some place they call "Heaven"... :eek:

I continue to gamble the other way... disregard what I know ain't so... with the risk that I may just have to spend eternity in "Hell"...


Magnus
 
I've found that the best way to deal with religious views is to ignore them. It's like adding oxygen to a fire or feeding a BB troll. Don't bother. They soon get bored of evangelising and bother other people. Eight pages of this just shows me how easily goaded people are into entering debate.

Some people believe in God. Some don't. Don't feed the religious trolls.
 
Was thinking of the exact same verses you quoted. Excellent work. I agree with your conclusions. It is a matter of faith. EVERYONE has faith in something. Even those whose faith is solely in themselves.
 


>>>>>> They ask me, Bill, do you think it’s because God is against trading that I’m continually losing money? Does the Bible forbid trading? <<<<<<<

The message is loud and clear, in body and mind and spirit, take skill to the nth, play to win, then give freely to those who are need and have arrived at "ready to receive" - then sit back and let the melody waft in, just between you and him (whoever he might be), "you are my beloved son, in Thee I am well pleased"

And I'm not even a religious person, am Roman Catholic but hardly ever go to church. But welcome THE MAN and ask for his help often.

Zero doubts. :)
 
>>>>> The question you need to ask is, Is it settled in your heart that God has released you to be a trader? <<<<<<
Yes, yes, yes, yes

>>>>>> Who would you prefer, the American Express Card or God to never ever leave home without? <<<<<<
No contest. The latter requires no application form, high Fico, or collateral proof, does no admonishing when you're late to pay, will never need a bail out as the former did in 2008.

>>>>> When you shorted the former and were losing, did the latter step in and guide? Yes.
(post #213 my thread ............... American Express Trade closed out. The lowest profit on a trade - disgusting. I must have left home without the card, hence the poor return. :)

>>>>> when I became exasperated and despondent over the crappy outcome of the American Express trade, did HE not rush a message down in the form of inspiration? - Yes, he did. Voila! Pain gone as understanding replaced its premise. What was the inspiration? It was a Wave 1 extrapolation that showed I had no chance of winning the Short. A poy-fect hit occurred down the road apiece at 423.6% as shown. see chart. He works in mysterious ways no doubt.

Game to God. :)


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>>>>> The question you need to ask is, Is it settled in your heart that God has released you to be a trader? <<<<<<
Yes, yes, yes, yes

>>>>>> Who would you prefer, the American Express Card or God to never ever leave home without? <<<<<<
No contest. The latter requires no application form, high Fico, or collateral proof, does no admonishing when you're late to pay, will never need a bail out as the former did in 2008.

>>>>> When you shorted the former and were losing, did the latter step in and guide? Yes.
(post #213 my thread ............... American Express Trade closed out. The lowest profit on a trade - disgusting. I must have left home without the card, hence the poor return. :)

>>>>> when I became exasperated and despondent over the crappy outcome of the American Express trade, did HE not rush a message down in the form of inspiration? - Yes, he did. Voila! Pain gone as understanding replaced its premise. What was the inspiration? It was a Wave 1 extrapolation that showed I had no chance of winning the Short. A poy-fect hit occurred down the road apiece at 423.6% as shown. see chart. He works in mysterious ways no doubt.

Game to God. :)


View attachment 266998







See quote's red text above .................

Game to God. :) :whistle:

When you've done the work and done your best and there is no more juice left in the tank, the request that works is, "send inspiration NOW" It will CAME. It arrived before I asked as HE know-ed I was going to ask and in his estimation there was no doubt I had earned it. so it came-d and already occupied a location based on vibrational frequency, the m.o. of the matter/energy/space/time gig. How it works? I then stumble into it. Yeah baby, he works in mysterious ways.

See American Express NOW

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Daily American Express now below the 200-day ema :whistle::whistle::whistle:




268291










and the creme de la creme, the sub message built into the message that the northbound move would not be over until Fibo target was hit - so see monthly American Express for after the Fibo target was hit and the latest bar breaks the trendline and confirm the warning red bar from Dec 2018
 
So you see gents, one does not need to call oneself a christian or muslim or buddhist or whatever, one can ask him from any location, no church going is necessary. And one never knows who the heck he is. But just throwing it out there with intention for HIM to receive it - that's all it takes. Then you wait. What I have learned over the years thru' simple observation is that the Inspiration comes in on the same wavelength as that of LOVE - softly and without fanfare and one just stumbles into it.


Fibo alone? No friends here? Banned 4 times already! Does not mean a damn thing to HIM and HE is the only one that counts. Say what? There is no such thing as loneliness. Fibo going into battle alone? Yeah dig it baby, fight a fierce fight. Can I be killed, I mean really killed? NO. I made that request already and I know it will be honored. When the game's over let me die smiling with not a penny in my possession having given it all away to the few who hold value to the concept of their WORD.
 
But just throwing it out there with intention for HIM to receive it - that's all it takes. Then you wait.


The key concept here is INTENTION

in all aspects of life in the physical universe, INTENTION is the thing that gets the job done - it literally blasts stupid people out of the way. No need for that stupid look on faces that you see when religious people talk to or about God.

The FIBO goes in with full INTENTION that God will deliver - when the INTENTION is backed up by having done all I can before the request, wow, watch out. The MAN hath already sent it.

Moses was up against a wall. There was no escape, nowhere to run, only to drown. To make matters worse the crowd (religious people by the millions who do not have the real intention because they have never understood that the greater the certainty that help will come, the sure as heck it WILL come. The INTENTION makes the difference and it comes from confidence that there will be an answer and response). In the midst of all this bloody pressure, Mosey just sent out a chilling call, one like a knife thru' butter on an INTENTION Wave so powerful that .......... The answer came so swiftly it severed E=mc2with aplomb

This is what I, FIBO believe, no iffs ands or buts.


 
I knew when this article was being put together that it would get the reaction it did and from the same people who always have strong views on anything on this site. However, there is sufficient interest and especially from US traders in the subject of trading and religion to warrant it being published and that is why it has been. To not publish it just because there are a number of strong anti-religious views would be giving way to a form of censorship.


Paul



Amen! This Americano in particular won't leave HOME without THE MAN. And rightly so there are many Americans who believe in God. All Gods, all good, all good.

"when I was back there in seminary school there was a person there
who put forth the proposition that you can petition the Lord with prayer
YOU CANNOT PETITION THE LORD WITH PRAYER!"


RIP Jimmy, don't make the same mistake twice - when you pick up your next body regardless the location and nationality, I've put it out there that our paths will cross and click. Come to Fibo, Jimmy. Only HE can straighten you out.

 
Go it alone? that's a given. You gotta do the best you can under any given circumstances. You fight your fights and relish your wins. But just as in trading the newbie traders are always doing it the hard way. Just say Hi and introduce yourself to THE MAN - he don't give a rat's ass whether you are Muslim or Chinese or African or whatever. All spirits are colorless.

Then watch how the tide changes. Its bloody staggering, the level of change that can occur.

Thread title question, "God judges adversely if you play Poker or by inference trade or some such" No baby, no way. He is above all that there are no limitations in his mind. He'll send waves regardless your profession

Some cats have been down so damn long that everything seems hopeless ...............


 
Forgive them Father for they know not what they say or do and can't even consider the alternative of just making friends with YOU, then continue trading, then watch as the trickle comes out of nowhere that startles one at first, then becomes a small flow, then grows, always noticeable growth, albeit subtle.

Father, some of my friends have one of your qualities that's tops IMHO. When Fibo fcks up you don't judge or put me down or denigrate, at worst you only look on in dismay till I snap out of my funk.

My friends are like that

Thanks for the Axiom:
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind



 
Thread title, "does the bible oppose trading?"

Proof again this month that the Bible encourages you to be the best trader you can be. Sometimes in the middle of the night I get up to jot down a note that came down the pike in deep sleep. I ain't even awake yet so just jot it down and back to sleep and then look at it and explore in the morning.

Yep, it came from a higher realm.

:)
 
Staying focused on thread title Bible and trading: (not about dieting or body fat or that type of weight) :)


@ 1:46 in video ..... Fibo's concept now has a song and its from Van Morrison. Many thanks.

To God, "When it gets too much for me, much too much for me, I'll do the same thing that YOU do - I'll put the weight on YOU!"

 
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