the blades
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schoe said:
Broadsword has it!
Though maybe your definition better suites me Schoe.
I reckon Salty was being a bit naughty, eh Mr Gibbon?
UTB
Salty Gibbon
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I was simply trying to inject a little humour after your gritty spat with young Socrates and take the heat out of what could have turned into a very very nasty incident, had I not been alert.
the blades
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Salty Gibbon said:I was simply trying to inject a little humour after your gritty spat with young Socrates and take the heat out of what could have turned into a very very nasty incident, had I not been alert.
Awe - you're too good to me. It must be that Sheffield "upbringing" or yours.....
UTB
Salty Gibbon
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Excuse me a minute, my tongue has got wedged in my cheek. Gotta yank it free.
That's better.
Yes, a period in Sheffield did me no harm at all. I still remember a lot of the pubs I used to get ratted at - Beehive, Fox and Duck, Broomhill Tavern, Duke of York....the list is endless as were my drinking exploits in those byegone days. Says he , breaking into song with the disco version of " Memory".
That's better.
Yes, a period in Sheffield did me no harm at all. I still remember a lot of the pubs I used to get ratted at - Beehive, Fox and Duck, Broomhill Tavern, Duke of York....the list is endless as were my drinking exploits in those byegone days. Says he , breaking into song with the disco version of " Memory".
SOCRATES
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You are perfectly correct in your statement that I do not have a monopoly on posting POINTLESS replies to others, this is because it is you who has that monopoly. <G>.the blades said:
The responses I recieve are very informative and enlightening, but not in they way you percieve they are.<G>.
And finally, the world I inhabit is not one to which you would be suited, or indeed, invited.<G>.
I dont see what the problem is here..... to me, anyone that can make a living trading on the markets commands respect, and thats how i think others would see it also.
To a lay person, the markets tend to have an aura of 'mystique' about them.... in their eyes, they just think of minted brokers in the city that drive Ferrari's and Porsche's.... most wouldnt have a clue what the difference is between a 'day trader' and a 'stockbroker'.
I say dont worry about what others think, because it's my guess that if anything, they actually look at you with a hidden sense of envy!
To a lay person, the markets tend to have an aura of 'mystique' about them.... in their eyes, they just think of minted brokers in the city that drive Ferrari's and Porsche's.... most wouldnt have a clue what the difference is between a 'day trader' and a 'stockbroker'.
I say dont worry about what others think, because it's my guess that if anything, they actually look at you with a hidden sense of envy!
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PurplePerson
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"...All my friends are traders so I don't have a problem...."
I ain't got no friends, so I got no problem either
;o)
But seriously (no, that wasn't serious, I do have a friend) (Oh yes I do) - nobody can use the single word 'Trader' as a description, can they? Otherwise the image that comes to the mind of most listeners is surely going to be someone who runs a market stall down town.
I am amazed at how many of the posters here appear so defensive about what they do. Especially in some of the earlier posts. All that stuff about presenting yourself as something other than what you really are. Makes you sound like shamefaced members of some notorious secret society that dare not speak its name.
"I work from home, playing the stockmarket for a living; buying and selling shares."
That's the 15-word explanation I usually use when asked. It is very clumsy. But I have yet to hear of a one-word or two-word substitute for it that would be understood. Trader is not a description I ever use - not out of concern at what people might think, but because the word just isn't specific enough. A new word is needed, now that enough people are doing it. and it needs to be a word that encompasses traders, investors, bettors, et al.
PP
I ain't got no friends, so I got no problem either
;o)
But seriously (no, that wasn't serious, I do have a friend) (Oh yes I do) - nobody can use the single word 'Trader' as a description, can they? Otherwise the image that comes to the mind of most listeners is surely going to be someone who runs a market stall down town.
I am amazed at how many of the posters here appear so defensive about what they do. Especially in some of the earlier posts. All that stuff about presenting yourself as something other than what you really are. Makes you sound like shamefaced members of some notorious secret society that dare not speak its name.
"I work from home, playing the stockmarket for a living; buying and selling shares."
That's the 15-word explanation I usually use when asked. It is very clumsy. But I have yet to hear of a one-word or two-word substitute for it that would be understood. Trader is not a description I ever use - not out of concern at what people might think, but because the word just isn't specific enough. A new word is needed, now that enough people are doing it. and it needs to be a word that encompasses traders, investors, bettors, et al.
PP
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I often find that by replying 'Im a Trader' when someone asks what you do, the very next question will always be 'What do you trade?'. This then allows you to expand further by replying 'I trade financial futures from home' or something similar.
I find this works best.
I have heard things like 'I design and implement equity and derivative systems'.... It's not a lie I guess so just say whatver what you like!!
As i said previously, I honestly think that providing you are clearly making a good living from it, most people will have the utmost repsect for what you do. I have read places that many people say that trading is akin to brain surgery in terms of skill and focus. Not a career to be ashamed of in my view.
I find this works best.
I have heard things like 'I design and implement equity and derivative systems'.... It's not a lie I guess so just say whatver what you like!!
As i said previously, I honestly think that providing you are clearly making a good living from it, most people will have the utmost repsect for what you do. I have read places that many people say that trading is akin to brain surgery in terms of skill and focus. Not a career to be ashamed of in my view.
I cannot understand how anyone could even come close to thinking of sh**e in trading. Considering that not many highly qualified (academically or professionally) could even apply Reward-to-Risk principles, nor even have the guts to try margin trading, nor even surviving long enough in the trading game, and further considering that there are highly qualified (academically or professionally) who went bankrupt after trading when they have access to the best financial resources and trading facilities.
Quite simply put, trading is a skill which not many possess.
PurplePerson
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Anon (Post 70):
Well, that's even worse innit?
If a neighbour or cousin or fellow passenger or whoever asks what I do for a living, "I'm a stockmarket bidder" or "I'm a stockmarket asker" is meaningless.
Seems to me that too many posters on this thread are talking about how they describe themselves to each other, within the stockmarket community where the jargon terms have at least some meaning. We need a term that is understood in the outside world, and which most non-involved members of the public would at least have a nodding idea of what it might mean without having to ask "What does that mean?".
My use of the word 'specific' in previous post was probably wrong - I guess really meant the opposite; a word that is more generic and encompassing, which conveys a fair idea of the area in which we (traders and investors and bettors et al) operate and doesn't leave the questioner puzzled. Those listeners who do have an interest in knowing more might want to quiz us in more detail as to what specific techniques or specialties we are pursuing, but the cover-all label/title needs to be one that would mean something to most strangers and would bracket all of us here.
I haven't yet seen or heard one - probably because it hasn't been invented yet.
PP
PS: As someone who trades shares for a living, sometimes buying/selling them, sometimes holding them awhile, quite often spreadbetting them instead/as well, - what should I put on my passport, for example? Or on any form that requires a job label?
Well, that's even worse innit?
If a neighbour or cousin or fellow passenger or whoever asks what I do for a living, "I'm a stockmarket bidder" or "I'm a stockmarket asker" is meaningless.
Seems to me that too many posters on this thread are talking about how they describe themselves to each other, within the stockmarket community where the jargon terms have at least some meaning. We need a term that is understood in the outside world, and which most non-involved members of the public would at least have a nodding idea of what it might mean without having to ask "What does that mean?".
My use of the word 'specific' in previous post was probably wrong - I guess really meant the opposite; a word that is more generic and encompassing, which conveys a fair idea of the area in which we (traders and investors and bettors et al) operate and doesn't leave the questioner puzzled. Those listeners who do have an interest in knowing more might want to quiz us in more detail as to what specific techniques or specialties we are pursuing, but the cover-all label/title needs to be one that would mean something to most strangers and would bracket all of us here.
I haven't yet seen or heard one - probably because it hasn't been invented yet.
PP
PS: As someone who trades shares for a living, sometimes buying/selling them, sometimes holding them awhile, quite often spreadbetting them instead/as well, - what should I put on my passport, for example? Or on any form that requires a job label?
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PurplePerson,
Perhaps you can use what you describe in your returns to HM Revenue, assuming you are tax-domiciled where I think you are tax-domiciled in.
I face a similar dilemma as you in describing "job" or "occupation" etc. On the one hand I have to think of a satisfactory reply that reflects I am not unemployed, not sitting around doing nothing, but on the other I have to think of the consequences of using a label or title that probably most business-minded will think as stupid because of the tax consequences of using such a label or title in the wrong place.
If you incorporate and proclaim yourself the Director/Secretary/Treasurer of the corporation, you can always project an image that you are somebody respectable, holds heavy responsibility etc, etc. But such title is practically useless most probably for the business-minded.
Perhaps you can use what you describe in your returns to HM Revenue, assuming you are tax-domiciled where I think you are tax-domiciled in.
I face a similar dilemma as you in describing "job" or "occupation" etc. On the one hand I have to think of a satisfactory reply that reflects I am not unemployed, not sitting around doing nothing, but on the other I have to think of the consequences of using a label or title that probably most business-minded will think as stupid because of the tax consequences of using such a label or title in the wrong place.
If you incorporate and proclaim yourself the Director/Secretary/Treasurer of the corporation, you can always project an image that you are somebody respectable, holds heavy responsibility etc, etc. But such title is practically useless most probably for the business-minded.
PurplePerson
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Being into my late fifties I quite often put 'Retired' and let them assume my stockmarket activity is a hobby rather than a career
PP
PS: If I was good enough at it I SHOULD be retired by now!
PP
PS: If I was good enough at it I SHOULD be retired by now!
JTrader
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This is a good topic.
I have mentioned my trading activities to about 10 people in all, You have to say something when all people constantly ask you is "So, what are you doing now?"
I have decided that I will not mention it to anybody else. I have/did not find that peoples repsonses were all that good, including those of my family etc.
With regard to my 'peer group' I received the type of responses that I expected -
"Will it pay a mortgage?"
"How much did you earn a month"
"That sounds really boring, I coudn't do that"
etc. etc.
I put these types of response down to ignorance, jealousy, people having felt intimidated by something very technical and that they don't understand. I decided that I did not want to have to justify my activites any more so simply do not mention it. I hope one day to be surrounded by more supportive and understanding people.
I am not actively trading at present as I had to get a job, due to needing a break from the long learning process and the fact that I do not have my own place to trade from. But I do have a period of 7 months of out and out "trading" on my CV. I wondered if this was a good idea - as again it appears that it may often be met with the same responses - ignorance, jealousy, people having felt intimidated by something very technical and that they don't understand, and in fact may actually hinder job searches. Because recruiters may think - why does he want to do this job if he claims he can work for himself?
Responses like "I want to make a greater contribution to society" seem to be met with doubt.
I have considered removing "trading" from my CV. The only problem is that it leaves another gap in my career history.
Luckily, I feel that I developed my trading knowlege, experience etc. to the extent that if and when i do recommence, i can make a success of it from day one.
But I certainly will not be mentioning it to anybody on a voluntarily basis down at the pub, gym etc.
Cheers
JT.
I have mentioned my trading activities to about 10 people in all, You have to say something when all people constantly ask you is "So, what are you doing now?"
I have decided that I will not mention it to anybody else. I have/did not find that peoples repsonses were all that good, including those of my family etc.
With regard to my 'peer group' I received the type of responses that I expected -
"Will it pay a mortgage?"
"How much did you earn a month"
"That sounds really boring, I coudn't do that"
etc. etc.
I put these types of response down to ignorance, jealousy, people having felt intimidated by something very technical and that they don't understand. I decided that I did not want to have to justify my activites any more so simply do not mention it. I hope one day to be surrounded by more supportive and understanding people.
I am not actively trading at present as I had to get a job, due to needing a break from the long learning process and the fact that I do not have my own place to trade from. But I do have a period of 7 months of out and out "trading" on my CV. I wondered if this was a good idea - as again it appears that it may often be met with the same responses - ignorance, jealousy, people having felt intimidated by something very technical and that they don't understand, and in fact may actually hinder job searches. Because recruiters may think - why does he want to do this job if he claims he can work for himself?
Responses like "I want to make a greater contribution to society" seem to be met with doubt.
I have considered removing "trading" from my CV. The only problem is that it leaves another gap in my career history.
Luckily, I feel that I developed my trading knowlege, experience etc. to the extent that if and when i do recommence, i can make a success of it from day one.
But I certainly will not be mentioning it to anybody on a voluntarily basis down at the pub, gym etc.
Cheers
JT.
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JTrader
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I think peoples main problem with trading is -
Traders can make millions
Traders can lose everything
Traders are not offering a service to society - so you can see how your dustbin man friend who makes £200 a week emptying your dustbins, while you perhaps make £2000 a week by not contributing anything to society (except maybe taxes if you are not a spread-better) might be a bit suspicious.
Trading is not something that people know much about. The only images they tend to have are from Micheal Douglas films...............
I think that the best thing for me to say (nearest description that I'd be willing to give) if someone asks the routine question "What do you do?" (as if your response will form their whole view of you, forgetting that some people work just to pay the bills, and that their job is not the primary reason for their existence) would be to say vaguely say without elaborating, that I work in IT. The trouble is, they're likely to then say "Oh, so do I.........................."
Cheers
JT.
Traders can make millions
Traders can lose everything
Traders are not offering a service to society - so you can see how your dustbin man friend who makes £200 a week emptying your dustbins, while you perhaps make £2000 a week by not contributing anything to society (except maybe taxes if you are not a spread-better) might be a bit suspicious.
Trading is not something that people know much about. The only images they tend to have are from Micheal Douglas films...............
I think that the best thing for me to say (nearest description that I'd be willing to give) if someone asks the routine question "What do you do?" (as if your response will form their whole view of you, forgetting that some people work just to pay the bills, and that their job is not the primary reason for their existence) would be to say vaguely say without elaborating, that I work in IT. The trouble is, they're likely to then say "Oh, so do I.........................."
Cheers
JT.
Pat494
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I usually say that I am a financial or market analyst working from home, implying something like a journalist but on the financial side.
To say one is a trader here in the UK implies a person of little or no integrity selling dodgy radios etc. in the pub/car boot sales - Dell boys or spivs.
To give the impression one is gambling, shocks some but evokes unpleasant reactions from others who seem to think one should give them some of the winnings or at least let them in on some secret money making scam or else ( and they aren't legitimate taxmen )
To say one is a trader here in the UK implies a person of little or no integrity selling dodgy radios etc. in the pub/car boot sales - Dell boys or spivs.
To give the impression one is gambling, shocks some but evokes unpleasant reactions from others who seem to think one should give them some of the winnings or at least let them in on some secret money making scam or else ( and they aren't legitimate taxmen )
?
Very interesting suspicion, isn't it?
If you buy a computer, you pay. If you subscribe to the phone, you pay. If you subscribe to the internet, you pay.
If you make money from trading as an individual, and somehow or other you don't have to pay tax, you can't write off your expenses against your profits, you can't get bank loans,you can't claim tax reliefs etc.
There are advantages and there are disadvantages of being a trader.
On the other hand there are fishy characters who don't know a thing about trading, who abuse tax loopholes, abuse administrative paperwork to cheat banks and other governmental and international organisations' money. But they are not under suspicion, until something very sinister is exposed.
Very interesting, isn't it?
