FetteredChinos
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yacarob1 said:
correct me if im wrong, but does this mean that Lara is only 31st best batsman in the current ODI rankings?
with the mighty Hoggster down at 254?
http://www.lgiccrankings.com/odi/pl...ame2=Hoggard&name_selected2=2314&type=Compare
thought lara had quite a good champions trophy?
Hook Shot said:
This thread was a bit of a shot in the dark cos there are lots of other cricket chatrooms etc
But I have to say I'm really glad I did it.
Thanks Guys.......Yaca, Fc Silver and others......... kriesau where art thou ?
Keep it coming it brightens up some of the blank spots within the trading day! :cheesy:
Bearing in mind I am Australian, am not much interested in cricket and am about to give a high and wide opinion (based on no factual evidence whatsoever), on why English cricketers seem to be such losers ... feel free to hiss at the computer screen and go on to the next post 
I think English cricketers lose because they do not hate losing enough.
And, I think Australian cricketers win because they hate losing. Passionately and ferociously.
As I said, I'm not a fan of cricket, but I remember seeing a bit of Ponting on the news after the defeat in England and he looked as if he had just been hit in the guts by a two-by-four and then told his first born child had been selected for human sacrifice to appease the Ju-Ju Gods. Mouthing all the right things, but anybody with eyes could see he was completely devastated by losing.
Whatever I might think of them as people - and just personally, I think Ponting always looks as if he has the sense of humour as a box of shovels and don't get me started on that complete dropkick Warne - I know without a doubt that anyone in this Australian side that lost the Ashes would have HATED it. And spent the better part of their time since then doing everything humanly possible to ensure it is never, ever repeated.
Compare that with yacorab1's opinion (above) of Flintoff:
"After being whupped by the Aussies, his [Flintoff's] first comment this morning was that they had played well in the Test and were only let down by an hour of bad play.
I have a serious problem with a captain who can come out with garbage like that."
As I didn't see this, I certainly can't make a judgment on him. But did he look like he hated losing? Did he look like he gave a mild stuff that he lost? Or did he look like he gave a really bit stuff that he lost? Did he look like he would spend every waking hour until the next match thinking about how to win? Was he really gutted but covering up for the cameras? Did he look like he'd pretty easily shrug it off with back massage by the gf/wife (if he has one?), and a beer and go for a lounge around the pool, or did he look like he'd exit the room and slightly crumble with the almost physical pain of losing, before straightening himself up, finding a bit of ******* in himself and taking himself off to spend every single moment until the next match in feverish activity to ensure his team doesn't lost because he HATES losing? (And yacorab1, I couldn't work out how to insert your original text but believe my little selection hasn't changed the meaning of your post).
Mick Doohan, another Australian, did quite well riding motorbikes. He hated losing too and said "Coming second means you're first loser".
"Playing well", "doing your best", "being a good sport" and all the other stuff that is said may make people feel a bit better. But if you lose, and find it somehow acceptable to lose with the aid of these platitudes and don't HATE that you've lost, I don't see how anybody can win much, for long, against decent competition. (This doesn't mean I think it is acceptable for any sportspeople to behave like pigs, nor to sledge if it's not in good humour).
Of course, I suppose all of this hatred of losing comes from really caring about the game to start with. I don't know how that could possibly be instilled into someone if it's not there.
JMH (uniformed, non-cricket loving) O, but I'd be interested to hear whether any of you agree or if you think I'm barking up the wrong tree.
Having said all that however, I sincerely do hope the English can find something because any competition which ceases to be a competition becomes as boring as hell for the fans.
I think English cricketers lose because they do not hate losing enough.
And, I think Australian cricketers win because they hate losing. Passionately and ferociously.
As I said, I'm not a fan of cricket, but I remember seeing a bit of Ponting on the news after the defeat in England and he looked as if he had just been hit in the guts by a two-by-four and then told his first born child had been selected for human sacrifice to appease the Ju-Ju Gods. Mouthing all the right things, but anybody with eyes could see he was completely devastated by losing.
Whatever I might think of them as people - and just personally, I think Ponting always looks as if he has the sense of humour as a box of shovels and don't get me started on that complete dropkick Warne - I know without a doubt that anyone in this Australian side that lost the Ashes would have HATED it. And spent the better part of their time since then doing everything humanly possible to ensure it is never, ever repeated.
Compare that with yacorab1's opinion (above) of Flintoff:
"After being whupped by the Aussies, his [Flintoff's] first comment this morning was that they had played well in the Test and were only let down by an hour of bad play.
I have a serious problem with a captain who can come out with garbage like that."
As I didn't see this, I certainly can't make a judgment on him. But did he look like he hated losing? Did he look like he gave a mild stuff that he lost? Or did he look like he gave a really bit stuff that he lost? Did he look like he would spend every waking hour until the next match thinking about how to win? Was he really gutted but covering up for the cameras? Did he look like he'd pretty easily shrug it off with back massage by the gf/wife (if he has one?), and a beer and go for a lounge around the pool, or did he look like he'd exit the room and slightly crumble with the almost physical pain of losing, before straightening himself up, finding a bit of ******* in himself and taking himself off to spend every single moment until the next match in feverish activity to ensure his team doesn't lost because he HATES losing? (And yacorab1, I couldn't work out how to insert your original text but believe my little selection hasn't changed the meaning of your post).
Mick Doohan, another Australian, did quite well riding motorbikes. He hated losing too and said "Coming second means you're first loser".
"Playing well", "doing your best", "being a good sport" and all the other stuff that is said may make people feel a bit better. But if you lose, and find it somehow acceptable to lose with the aid of these platitudes and don't HATE that you've lost, I don't see how anybody can win much, for long, against decent competition. (This doesn't mean I think it is acceptable for any sportspeople to behave like pigs, nor to sledge if it's not in good humour).
Of course, I suppose all of this hatred of losing comes from really caring about the game to start with. I don't know how that could possibly be instilled into someone if it's not there.
JMH (uniformed, non-cricket loving) O, but I'd be interested to hear whether any of you agree or if you think I'm barking up the wrong tree.
Having said all that however, I sincerely do hope the English can find something because any competition which ceases to be a competition becomes as boring as hell for the fans.
I think it comes down to the basic point that, playing for Australia means more to an Aussie than playing for England does to a Pom.
To play for Australia seems to be the earth, the moon and the stars in whatever sport you care to mention.
To play for England just does not seem to mean anywhere near as much to the English guys.
That is why the Aussies are so hungry to win because they have to fight to keep their place in the team that they truly love to be in.
The English do not have the same hunger because if they are not selected they just seem to shrug it off and they certainly do not have the same passion to represent their country.
After today's game the English ( to me ) did not seem particularly gutted and both Flintoff and the coach defended team selection and tactics. No apology was offered for a particularly gruesome performance in the 2nd Innings and the pair did not seem in the least bit embarrassed.
That really sucks.
To play for Australia seems to be the earth, the moon and the stars in whatever sport you care to mention.
To play for England just does not seem to mean anywhere near as much to the English guys.
That is why the Aussies are so hungry to win because they have to fight to keep their place in the team that they truly love to be in.
The English do not have the same hunger because if they are not selected they just seem to shrug it off and they certainly do not have the same passion to represent their country.
After today's game the English ( to me ) did not seem particularly gutted and both Flintoff and the coach defended team selection and tactics. No apology was offered for a particularly gruesome performance in the 2nd Innings and the pair did not seem in the least bit embarrassed.
That really sucks.
I agree with you in most parts. There is no way I could imagine Ponting or Gilchrist saying if Australia were beaten like that for example (as England were yesterday) that they had a "bad one hour". I could definately see Ponting or Gilly saying "we stuffed up big time"....as Ponting did when he lost the Ashes.
They hate losing but they also have a winners mentality. That takes a long time to gain however. Maybe this England team can get that in time as well. FLintoff and KP have it definately.
They hate losing but they also have a winners mentality. That takes a long time to gain however. Maybe this England team can get that in time as well. FLintoff and KP have it definately.
jebigabre said:
This implies that what we hear by way of explanation may be .......... well political rather than raw truth. In some ways you can excuse it because I'm not sure a fragile team should go in for more public humilliation than is absolutely necessary ?
Silvertip
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I think its quite simply our cultural diversity in terms of how we each approach public relations and self expression. The Aussies always offer a down to earth straight talking answer, whereas the English always give the politically correct twaddle. Freddie tries to talk the cool jargon as he is a cool guy, or that is the image he likes to project, and therefore this will inevitably manifest itself as a result of his ego projecting this self constructed ideal relating to what it is he thinks his personality/profile should be in conjunction with speaking what he defines as the most media friendly articulation. I dont think it has anything to do with not wanting to win, its personalities/profiles and cultural diversity that is the issue.
No point in crying over spilt milk, as they say up here in England.
No point in crying over spilt milk, as they say up here in England.
yacarob1 said:
nah... nothing to do with hunger and all that... its basically these reasons..
1. Aussies have far too much time on their hands to play sports, lots of sun
and lots of open space.. things we don't have on this cold, small &
expensive island.
2. We believe in "personal bests" i.e its ok to end at the bottom of the pile
as long as you beat your own record.. something the Aussies will laugh
their heads off at!. Of course there can be "bad days" - who doesn't have
one? and this was just an hour.. its ok... they "tried"... cool.
3. We don't give "excuses", we give "reasons"..
Here we go again with the next thrilling ( not ) instalment of " How Not To Play Cricket" starring the England cricket team.
Sporting Odds are at :-
Australia 1/2
England 13/2
Draw 3/1
In a 2 horse race that makes Australia virtual certainties to p*** it, which of course they probably will.
Sporting Odds are at :-
Australia 1/2
England 13/2
Draw 3/1
In a 2 horse race that makes Australia virtual certainties to p*** it, which of course they probably will.
There are a myriad of other bets available including:-
" Flintoff to win toss and bowl" at 10/1
Bearing in mind Flintoff's captaining prowess ( lack of ) and brain cell deficiency probably caused by excessive intake of alcohol, this may be a good bet.
" Flintoff to win toss and bowl" at 10/1
Bearing in mind Flintoff's captaining prowess ( lack of ) and brain cell deficiency probably caused by excessive intake of alcohol, this may be a good bet.
Good start for England with Monty well in the groove with 4 wickets thus far.
My money is still firmly on the Aussies to win handsomely.
Australia 8/11
England 9/4
Draw 19/4
Great price for the draw but with 7 Aussie wickets down on Day 1 so far the draw might be seen as remote now.
My money is still firmly on the Aussies to win handsomely.
Australia 8/11
England 9/4
Draw 19/4
Great price for the draw but with 7 Aussie wickets down on Day 1 so far the draw might be seen as remote now.
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No way will it be a draw with 12 wickets falling on the first day.
For this to be a draw we will need at least 2 days of rain.
I agree that Australia will probably get a massive 2nd Innings score but they always possess the ability to bowl out England very cheaply indeed.
For this to be a draw we will need at least 2 days of rain.
I agree that Australia will probably get a massive 2nd Innings score but they always possess the ability to bowl out England very cheaply indeed.
