Best Thread Capital Spreads

Simon: Further to my gripe on Friday -post no 550. I am still adamant as to what i had on the screen. But after reading the other posts i am glad that you have come off your high horse and admitted that there was a problem at your end. This restores our faith in you and also that these things can happen.We can call it experience and learn by it. All in all I can say that I am satisfied with the service that u do provide and am happy with it. So as they say another day another dollar.

rgds
zarif
 
Simon

dont quote me on this but we are hoping for the end of July (gulp) we have one or two systems upgrades which although not visible to the clients will increase speed and accuracy even further.

Simon

I know you said don't quote me on this (re if done orders), but.........

Great news. Once you introduce this, you will really have one up on every other SB company.
Will this be introduced across the board or just certain instruments? I trade FX and obviously would like to see if done orders available on spot fx.

Please post on here as soon as this is introduced (I am sure you will anyway), so I can start opening my account!

Cheers
 
Get to know the nature of beast

As llew has pointed out, most of the spreadbetting companies about are different in nature and all operate in different ways. These differences can make a huge difference in both your ‘trading experience’ and your profit and loss. One of the most important aspects of trading is to remain calm and level headed. It is therefore important that what we could term ‘side issues’ don’t become big issues and upset our calmness. In my experience a loss of composure results in bad trading decisions. On this basis we need our broker (or spreadbetter) to be reliable, we don’t want them adding to list of reasons that cause us to lose our composure. Personally I hate having to trade via the telephone. Some people I know are completely unaffected by having to deal on the phone. On this issue there is a need to look at yourself to see how this may affect you. Internet reliability is a long standing issue with these spreadbetting firms and it is an issue I have raised a number of times. As others have pointed out from time to time, its very easy for the companies in question to ‘blame it on yer isp’, as a number of my American friends would say. I’ve been given this excuse several times in the past despite the fact that I’m running on 2mb broadband. I run an office network through my broadband connections which runs other stuff which is live. Some of this other software automatically monitors for lag. If my system lagged for more that a fraction of a second I’d know about it.
Once we get past the ISP issues we get onto the subject of general reliability. One or two have noted that certain companies remove internet dealing during sharply trending moves. This obviously removes the opportunity for customers to quickly trade in and out of markets when it is easiest to do so. On the basis that this appears to happen quite regularly with certain companies at certain times it is clear that they do it for a reason. Quite often, if you phone and ask them, they’ll tell you that it is for a ‘technical issue’ and that trading will resume ‘very shortly’. I am very sceptical about any broker / spreadbetter that consistently has technical issues especially when markets are moving quickly. I mainly use a direct access broker and I can’t remember the last time that I couldn't trade through them at the split second I wanted to. If direct access brokers and electronic exchanges can maintain such a high level of reliability then why are the spreadbet companies struggling to offer the same reliability ? One has to ask the question ‘is it in their interests to offer such a level of reliability ?’ or is it more financially viable to actually have a system which does struggle when markets are moving quickly and hence customers are unable to benefit from fast execution. From what I have read it would seem that Capital Spreads are better than most. However, I would suggest that there is an issue which needs addressing regarding delays in execution between submission and execution of orders. The problem appears to be rather similar to that suffered by one of two of the other spreadbetting companies in that market moves made in between submission and execution are taken into account when the dealer decides whether or not to except the trade. Obviously the market could move a good distance in just the few seconds which constitute the minimum time it takes to review an incoming trade. From what I have read plus my own experiences (which are quite limited) I would suggest that if Capital were to address this issue then they’d be onto a winner. In fast markets quick execution is king.
Obviously Finspreads system would work well in that situation because they continually supply you with a live price on which to trade but their system seems to fail far too easily in volatile situations.
As the title of this little passage suggests, its all about establishing the ‘nature of the beast’ and thus establishing whether certain companies services are suitable for you as an individual.

Direct Access Brokerage

I have never personally had any real problems with direct access. This is a very important aspect of my trading. If you are going to ‘day trade’, which seems to be the fad, then you have to consider a number of very important aspects. The amount of tax you are going to pay if you are successful should feature very low on your list in my opinion and therefore why consider spreadbetting in the first place ? When you set the possible tax savings aside it is considerably more expensive to spreadbet than it is to use a direct access broker. Buying 100 shares (or $1 per point in spreadbetting language) of Microsoft will incur you a dealing cost of precisely $1.00 (or 55 pence in sterling). For this 55p cost you get to deal at market spreads which is generally about 1 cent (but quite often zero). This is the most efficient type of dealing you will find anywhere in my opinion. When I deal the total costs are minimal. When you deal in this fashion stop losses become very easy to implement because you are far less attached to the position from a psychological point of view. In my opinion people attach themselves to spreadbet positions because they recognise the large costs involved in trading in an out of positions and therefore when they enter a position you feel like you want to get ‘value for money’ from your ‘ride’, this tends to lead to losses getting run up rather than closed off early.
Direct access also offers much cheaper access to the futures markets. It seems to me that more people play the futures via spreadbetting than anything else. Dow and S&P seem to get the most mentions. Generally the Dow Futures market has a spread of 1 point during normal US market hours. This spread does increase out of hours but this increase is never normally any bigger than the most competitive spreadbetting company’s quote.
S&P Futures are normally always on a spread of 0.25 points and this is for the quarterly contract, most spreadbet companies charge 4 or 5 times that.
The spread on Dax Futures is 0.5 points and likewise FTSE Futures are 0.5 as well. Obviously you have to consider dealing costs with a broker but these are generally very small and amount to no more than a dollar or two.
Another key factor which is possibly the most important thing is speed of execution. Direct Access is lightning quick. If you’ve not used it before then it will knock your socks off ! If you deal at market then you get the market price in an instant. Obviously if the market moves in that split second then you get the new price but 90% of the time I find I hit exactly the price I want and for the other 10% you get the next tick. This can work both ways. There is absolutely no pissing about waiting for conformations while dealers check prices and levels etc, its all done electronically in real time with no human intervention.

It’s not all bad news

Spreadbetting obviously does have some advantages if you have a trading system which is longer term. These will be strategies where fast execution is not that important. These will be strategies where the cost of opening and closing a position doesn't drastically reduce the profitability of overall trading.
Spreadbetting also allows the use of smaller stakes on futures products than the underlying market does and is therefore good for beginners who are learning about market characteristics and the various emotions that trading can trigger. It would seem that despite the fact that folk can use smaller stakes people still over commit on position size and it is this failure to apply sensible money management which puts pay to most peoples dreams of long term success. In essence double digit percentages of trading capital get swallowed up by losing trades promoting a cycle of irrecoverable draw down.

Good luck with whatever you choose, just be aware that is a vital part of your trading !

Stevie.
 
Well, Stevespray, that has to be the definitive guide to spreadbet v direct access, well written.
 
Stevespray

Thankyou for a useful & interesting post.

What I would say is that whilst I am in profit overall so far I have made some big blunders along the way and I am very glad that I used Spreadbetting and small stakes when making these mistakes as I could not have afforded to be trading 100 Microsoft shares and then mess up.

I agree that Direct Access is the future but as you say Spreadbetting is good for beginners. One step at a time for me I think.
 
if you want to be a trader - use a broker for electronic access to exchanges for stocks or derivatives

if you want to trade for fun - use spreadbetting
 
Capital Spreads

FTSE / DOW Monthly / Daily Variance
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have noticed on a number of occasions a particular variance please see below for to-days example.

dow sept monthly future + 50
dow daily cash + 4

ftse sept monthly future + 27
ftse daily cash + 27

Why do the ftse figures stay close together but the dow's do not?

Regards

bracke
 
ChartMan


"Because the dow cash is 'locked' till 2:30 I think...."

I can't be certain but I think it continued after 2.30

Regards

bracke
 
brake

the reason that there is often a major difference in the dow cash vs futures is that the futures close at 21.15 vs the cash closing at 21.00.

In the US companies generally have to make market announcements after the market closes (i.e at 21.01) this means that sometimes the futures can move substantially between 21.00 and 21.15.

In europe the futures close at the same time as the cash which means that in general the next days move will be starting from roughly the same point.

spread betting vs direct access

you have to pay to have direct access.... SB platforms are free

one of the major points missed here is that in general SB companies will accept trades in greater size than is available in the real market and will also accept trades even if the actual price was no longer there with direct access either you get the price or not. When you see ridiculous price trades going through the market it is because somebody (like steve) has put a 'market order' into a fast market and all the offers/bids have been pulled so he gets filled 50 points away.

Also SB companies (especially CS) allow far greater gearing (less margin)

SB spreads are coming in all the time and for longer term holders the costs of SB trading is in fact comparible/cheaper to direct access. At the moment the most popular markets are FX and our spreads rival (excluding cost etc) the best in the market.

You must also add in the fact that in SB you can trade in your own currency in foreign currency products. And on one platform you can trade in thousands of products

But of course I would argue in my favour..... Everything has its place

Good luck

Simon
 
Afternoon Simon…..

Yes, You make some good points re direct access vs. spreadbet. I was expecting no less.

“Everything has its place”…..This is also my view. As I said before, if you can work out which companies are good at what then you can arm yourself with a number of tools which will help you in the overall scheme.
Personally I have numerous accounts with different companies. Some are direct access, some spreadbet and others cfd’s. Also £ and $ denominated.
What you say about fast markets and direct access is true but in reality you are talking about very rare occasions when this happens. I guess you’re only really talking about the futures here. If you are someone who is disciplined then you can protect yourself against pulled orders in a fast market. It’s very simple. You place your stop order with you CFD provider. A stop to open a position that is (ie you open a position in a dollar denominated CFD to hedge you position on direct access). Some CFD providers promise that they will fill orders at stop levels providing the market actually traded price and volume at your stop level, if it didn’t they fill you at next best or volume weighted average. My point being is that this method practically removes all slippage from stops even in fast markets unless you are trading a particularly big size (and even then the volume weighted fill is much better than the market fill). On small trades I don’t think they even check time and sales, they just fill at the stop level. It’s a case of using the strengths of each service. A stop level which works in that manner is an advantage over the market as a whole. Just to explain to peeps who are not familiar with ‘stop orders’ in the real markets, these aren’t actually placed in the market (like the limit orders which form the order book), they are held by your electronic broker and inserted into the market as a market order when the level is triggered by their computer. This is why slippage occurs on stops – the market falls or bid and offers are pulled in the time it takes to trigger your stop order (or some one else may have a market order at the same level and hence they beat you to the price).
The beauty of a parallel market provider, who looks back at time and sales to validate your, is that he’s offering you better value than is really available. His spread maybe a point or two greater that the underlying but it is far less than the slippage in a fast market.

With regard to the cost of direct access platforms. They aren’t very expensive. It depends what you are trading. Generally the data fees have fallen especially for the popular US markets. If you do a small amount every month then some data fee’s get waived (US futures). For the most part, if you deal in shares then the savings you make on the spreads will cover your costs in just a few deals.

The extra leverage offered by the spreadbet company is of little importance to the experienced trader. They would never normally extend themselves to the levels of leverage that are available. People who trade using maximum available leverage are generally lambs to the slaughter – cycle of irrecoverable drawdown and all that.

I would agree that certain markets that you make do offer good value, especially when compared to other spreadbetting companies. Capital’s Quarterly Dax on a 4 tick spread is good value. As a regular player of Dax options I’ve considered fully funding my Capital account purely on that basis. However, it’s still hard to pay a spread of 4 when its only 0.5 in the market.

Simon – Any plans to introduce some rolling cash products ? I’m particularly interested in rolling cash ForEx. Daily’s are too short. I guess it will be harder for you if you’re not 24 hours. Customers obviously need stops filled in overnight moves, likewise for limits.
Out of interest, how much would you charge to roll a daily spot on cable or euro/dollar ?

Steve.
 
we are developing a rolling daily platform at the moment

to roll euro/dollar costs 1 pip to roll..... daily cable costs 2 / 5 over the w/e
because of the interest rate difference
 
Simon -off the topic but have you any plans as to increasing the update price times on the quotes ?
 
Any plans to offer daily rolling stocks? I dont really like the cost of the futures bets when I'm only holding for about a week...
 
minx

we already offer daily bets in the FTSE 100 and many US stocks ... if you wish to roll them you just have to ask us and we will do so....

zarif

are you talking about the general page updates ? these update every 5 secs if there has been a move .
If you have a particular ticket open it will update every second. We are always looking at ways to speed up the platform (which is why I sometimes say that upgrades are made that the clients do not see).

Simon
 
Simon - I'm interested in those rolled forex positions. This may have been asked before, how do stops or limits work in over night markets. ForEx markets are pretty active 24 hours per day (especially dollar / yen).

Steve.
 
Steve

we close at 21.15 and reopen at 07.00

Any FX moves over night are ignored by us (as with for instance any DOW moves)

This may mean that a stop may incur slippage if there is a substantial move in this close time. But on the other hand we will also ignore situations where the market would have hit your stop and then gone back again. (I can assure you that the second senario is far more common than the first in the Tokyo markets)

Oddly enough in the seven/eight months we have been in business we havn't had any problems with this. Which when you consider how volatile the FX markets have been over that period just goes to show how much the FX market is influences by the European Markets. ( even the $ / Yen )

Simon
 
Simon.................You had a OOPS today.................phone betting only for a short while...........what happened??

John
 
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