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Best Thread Capital Spreads
Capitalspreads (for tomorrow)
A number of other SB companies provide interest on the balance held within an account, will your company provide this same feature and if so at what interest rate. Do you charge for money transfers, if so what are the charges.
Kevin
A number of other SB companies provide interest on the balance held within an account, will your company provide this same feature and if so at what interest rate. Do you charge for money transfers, if so what are the charges.
Kevin
Having such small margin requirements sounds great, but in reality is it such a good idea? Surely it will encourage a lot of punters to place trades that exceed any sort of reasonable risk management percentage for the size of their account.
There are actually 2 worrying points here:
1. The low margin requirements will encourage punters to set tight stops at the minimum required. There's nothing wrong with tight stops combined with a sound trading methodology but the tighter your stops the lower your %age winners will be thus increasing the number of consecutive losers you are likely to experience.
2. The low minimum margin requirements means that Joe Punter is likely to increase his stake size, thus increasing his %age risk per trade.
Combining tight stops and a high probability of a long losing streak with using a large risk percentage on each trade will mean that the risk of ruin (ie blowing the account) is substantial.
This method reminds me of the 'bucket shops' that Larry Livingstone describes in 'Reminiscences of a stock operator'. The 'suckers' (the bucket shop owners description) were allowed to 'trade' on very low margins but there was no such thing as a margin call, the trades were just closed when the margin was gone. The bucket shops did not hedge, as they knew the punters would be overall losers. They frequently manipulated the market to take out stops. They made it impossible for Larry Livingstone to trade when he showed that he was a consistent winner. Hmmm...There's nothing new in this game is there?
There are actually 2 worrying points here:
1. The low margin requirements will encourage punters to set tight stops at the minimum required. There's nothing wrong with tight stops combined with a sound trading methodology but the tighter your stops the lower your %age winners will be thus increasing the number of consecutive losers you are likely to experience.
2. The low minimum margin requirements means that Joe Punter is likely to increase his stake size, thus increasing his %age risk per trade.
Combining tight stops and a high probability of a long losing streak with using a large risk percentage on each trade will mean that the risk of ruin (ie blowing the account) is substantial.
This method reminds me of the 'bucket shops' that Larry Livingstone describes in 'Reminiscences of a stock operator'. The 'suckers' (the bucket shop owners description) were allowed to 'trade' on very low margins but there was no such thing as a margin call, the trades were just closed when the margin was gone. The bucket shops did not hedge, as they knew the punters would be overall losers. They frequently manipulated the market to take out stops. They made it impossible for Larry Livingstone to trade when he showed that he was a consistent winner. Hmmm...There's nothing new in this game is there?
Sidinuk
An excellent post and a wake up call to any that look to SB and trading in general. One can only hope that people who enter this arena do so with a 'complete trading plan' and does not just rush to the company that offers the lowest margin and spread.
Capitalspreads does however offer something for the person who wishes to try out a new set-up on a small scale with small risk or the more organised trader who is well aware of both entry and exit strategies, risk management and discipline.
I have had a go at the trading platform this evening and it appears ok as things go. The price of the DOW did not appear to change as frequently as the D4F price but it did have a fair reflection of the D4F price. However this was only the demo and the real thing may prove to be another matter.
I trade the FTSE but I must admit a 3 point spread has some benefit against that of the D4F spread so I will have to wait and see. As for margin when approaching Captalspreads you must employ your own trading rules which you have thoroughly tested and use your own stop policy not that of Capitalspreads.
In the end the more companies that enter the market place like Capitalspreads can only improve the service for the customers by putting pressure on existing companies that over the last few years have been forced to reduce spreads and introduce interest given on account balances.
For anyone who has not considered an overall trading plan then I would advise them to read Elder's book 'Come into my trading room' or Piper's 'the way to trade'. Very good building blocks that get you to look at all the aspects involved in trading. And no I don't get commission. Just wish I had read these books 3 years ago when I first started trading as it would have saved me a great deal of time on my way to some success.
Good luck
Kevin
An excellent post and a wake up call to any that look to SB and trading in general. One can only hope that people who enter this arena do so with a 'complete trading plan' and does not just rush to the company that offers the lowest margin and spread.
Capitalspreads does however offer something for the person who wishes to try out a new set-up on a small scale with small risk or the more organised trader who is well aware of both entry and exit strategies, risk management and discipline.
I have had a go at the trading platform this evening and it appears ok as things go. The price of the DOW did not appear to change as frequently as the D4F price but it did have a fair reflection of the D4F price. However this was only the demo and the real thing may prove to be another matter.
I trade the FTSE but I must admit a 3 point spread has some benefit against that of the D4F spread so I will have to wait and see. As for margin when approaching Captalspreads you must employ your own trading rules which you have thoroughly tested and use your own stop policy not that of Capitalspreads.
In the end the more companies that enter the market place like Capitalspreads can only improve the service for the customers by putting pressure on existing companies that over the last few years have been forced to reduce spreads and introduce interest given on account balances.
For anyone who has not considered an overall trading plan then I would advise them to read Elder's book 'Come into my trading room' or Piper's 'the way to trade'. Very good building blocks that get you to look at all the aspects involved in trading. And no I don't get commission. Just wish I had read these books 3 years ago when I first started trading as it would have saved me a great deal of time on my way to some success.
Good luck
Kevin
capitalspreads
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sidinuk et al
well yes, if you set tight stops then you increase the chance of being stopped out. But our minimum IMR on the FTSE (as an example) is 30 which would imply a computer generated stop of around 24 points, now call me Mr picky but I would hardly call a 24 point stop as unreasonably tight. You may in fact move your stop as close as 10 points (you will still require the min IMR though).
I am sorry, but just blindly comparing a new company that is honestly trying to give a new and better service to some shyster in the states is a little offensive. I cannot force anybody to open an account with us, if you wish to continue to pay the outrageous spreads at some of the SBs or put up with bad customer services at others that is entirely your decision.
I am willing to answer serious questions about our systems and policies as an information service.
kevin
yes your calculation is correct.
That is the minimum margin required thus the minimum stop level that the computer will automatically apply.
But you can then manually move the stop to as close as 10 points (on the daily FTSE). Your margin requirement will still be the 30 points even though you have moved your stop.
When you trade out of a position all stops and 'limit' orders attatched to that position are automatically cancelled (try it out on the simulation account). But any 'New' orders will still be active, a 'new' order is an independent instruction and is not attatched to any live positions whereas a 'limit' order is fixed against an open position (like a stop) and is cancelled when the position is closed. Again try it out in the simulation account, when you click on the order button for a product a ticket will appear asking whether you want a new or limit order, if you try to put a limit order in without a corresponding position our system will not allow it.
All I can emphasise is please use the simulation site as an instruction site as well as a paper trading area. It is not real money, so why not just place small bets and then test out the stop functionality etc so that when you get to the real thing there are no surprises.
Simon
well yes, if you set tight stops then you increase the chance of being stopped out. But our minimum IMR on the FTSE (as an example) is 30 which would imply a computer generated stop of around 24 points, now call me Mr picky but I would hardly call a 24 point stop as unreasonably tight. You may in fact move your stop as close as 10 points (you will still require the min IMR though).
I am sorry, but just blindly comparing a new company that is honestly trying to give a new and better service to some shyster in the states is a little offensive. I cannot force anybody to open an account with us, if you wish to continue to pay the outrageous spreads at some of the SBs or put up with bad customer services at others that is entirely your decision.
I am willing to answer serious questions about our systems and policies as an information service.
kevin
yes your calculation is correct.
That is the minimum margin required thus the minimum stop level that the computer will automatically apply.
But you can then manually move the stop to as close as 10 points (on the daily FTSE). Your margin requirement will still be the 30 points even though you have moved your stop.
When you trade out of a position all stops and 'limit' orders attatched to that position are automatically cancelled (try it out on the simulation account). But any 'New' orders will still be active, a 'new' order is an independent instruction and is not attatched to any live positions whereas a 'limit' order is fixed against an open position (like a stop) and is cancelled when the position is closed. Again try it out in the simulation account, when you click on the order button for a product a ticket will appear asking whether you want a new or limit order, if you try to put a limit order in without a corresponding position our system will not allow it.
All I can emphasise is please use the simulation site as an instruction site as well as a paper trading area. It is not real money, so why not just place small bets and then test out the stop functionality etc so that when you get to the real thing there are no surprises.
Simon
capitalspreads
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Sorry Smallfry I am not sure what your point is, did we miss a query? As I have said , ad nauseam, I will comment on funtionality and policy as you would expect us to do if you phoned.
Kevin
I am sorry but at the moment we do not pay interest on funds deposited. And, yes, I know that might appear unreasonable.
Simon
Kevin
I am sorry but at the moment we do not pay interest on funds deposited. And, yes, I know that might appear unreasonable.
Simon
So do I deduce that your 'new' order, is in fact an order to open a position if a level is reached? I trust that you have all the logic in place to cope with a client placing a 'new' order to sell, but then opening a bet to buy? That would make your 'new' order a closing one technically, or do you allow clients to be long and short in the same market?
Do you also allow clients to have multiple currency accounts such that they could be long and short in the same market but in different currencies? If this were done on a currency market, then I assume you know about triangulation?
On a more technical note, can you tell us which method you use to calculate your PRR?
Actually Simon, I have emailed you twice which is what I referred to earlier.
Regards
Simon (Clark)
Auckland
Do you also allow clients to have multiple currency accounts such that they could be long and short in the same market but in different currencies? If this were done on a currency market, then I assume you know about triangulation?
On a more technical note, can you tell us which method you use to calculate your PRR?
Actually Simon, I have emailed you twice which is what I referred to earlier.
Regards
Simon (Clark)
Auckland
capitalspreads
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If you read my previous message you will see that as stated any action that results in a trade opposite to an open position will close that position and cancel any orders associated with it. So that if a customer opened a new bet and subsequently a 'new' order instruction (that had previously been placed) was triggered this would naturally close the bet and cancel any stops or limits attatched to it.
Please read the Ts & Cs concerning attempts to 'triangulate' on the FX.
PRR?? price?ratio?
You can be assured that were we mis quoting or using incorrect formulas in any of our products we would have a great number of clients all over us like a rash in that market.
As per your other comment I see that I have indeed been remiss and impolite in not responding to your e-mails and I will redress my error asap.
Simon
Please read the Ts & Cs concerning attempts to 'triangulate' on the FX.
PRR?? price?ratio?
You can be assured that were we mis quoting or using incorrect formulas in any of our products we would have a great number of clients all over us like a rash in that market.
As per your other comment I see that I have indeed been remiss and impolite in not responding to your e-mails and I will redress my error asap.
Simon
capitalspreads
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ouch
it seems to be my day for apologies. stevet I an afraid I cannot find your question. can you send it again. ummm in words of plain english as I am afraid that technical IT questions are not my forte.
Simon
it seems to be my day for apologies. stevet I an afraid I cannot find your question. can you send it again. ummm in words of plain english as I am afraid that technical IT questions are not my forte.
Simon
capitalspreads
that was the question!
do you offer the ability for your customers to access your trading platform electronically
that is to be able to kick into your program - customer computer generated buy and sell signals - as opposed to manual signals initiated by customer button pressing
that was the question!
do you offer the ability for your customers to access your trading platform electronically
that is to be able to kick into your program - customer computer generated buy and sell signals - as opposed to manual signals initiated by customer button pressing
capitalspreads
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I am afraid that the answer is in the negative. We are not currently working on plans to allow access to our systems to computer generated orders. I can see the advantage though and will have a chat with our developers to see whether this can be, economically, done.
Capitalspreads
Thank you for your replies. I did make use of your simulation programme last night and found it easy to use. Yesterday you mentioned your FTSE cash is 3 points which was shown in your online brochure (picture of your trading platform illustrated a previous figure of 4251 - 4253) but when I logged into the demo it appeared to be 4 points.
Kevin
Thank you for your replies. I did make use of your simulation programme last night and found it easy to use. Yesterday you mentioned your FTSE cash is 3 points which was shown in your online brochure (picture of your trading platform illustrated a previous figure of 4251 - 4253) but when I logged into the demo it appeared to be 4 points.
Kevin
capitalspreads
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the picture is of the Simulation Site and was a screen print taken when we were testing. It is merely a picture to show what the site looks like, in the same way that the price for the EUR/USD is no longer 1.1219-1.1224 it is somewhat higher.
Our spread in the Daily FTSE is 3 points, if you buy and sell on the same quote you will lose three points so our spread is 3.
Our spread in the Daily FTSE is 3 points, if you buy and sell on the same quote you will lose three points so our spread is 3.
Capitalspreads
Is it or could it be considered in the future to provide the facility to open the auto-quote page and then drag this from your own web-page so that it can sit alone on the screen; allowing clients to keep an eye on the price while viewing other web-pages with your own page minimised to the toolbar.
Kevin
Is it or could it be considered in the future to provide the facility to open the auto-quote page and then drag this from your own web-page so that it can sit alone on the screen; allowing clients to keep an eye on the price while viewing other web-pages with your own page minimised to the toolbar.
Kevin
Lecter
Thanks for response, this does appear to be an area where the SB's just do not wish to offer good service. While I have not traded at £250 I know of some that do from a longer term basis but get hit with wider spreads than those normally associated with the instruments they are trading. I have traded at £80 with D4F and to be honest found anything above £25 on the FTSE generates a delay in your order being filled with a re-quote losing about 2 points at each end (4 point round trip) making it very costly. It is for that reason I also use a broker for larger deals.
Kevin
Thanks for response, this does appear to be an area where the SB's just do not wish to offer good service. While I have not traded at £250 I know of some that do from a longer term basis but get hit with wider spreads than those normally associated with the instruments they are trading. I have traded at £80 with D4F and to be honest found anything above £25 on the FTSE generates a delay in your order being filled with a re-quote losing about 2 points at each end (4 point round trip) making it very costly. It is for that reason I also use a broker for larger deals.
Kevin
capitalspreads
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we have had several request for an aural alarm and we are talking to our chart supplier about it! (I think my cheque book is starting to glow redhot in anticipation of his response)
If the size is marketable then of course we will take telephone orders on exchange traded products and would try to get fills on an agreed basis. You must be aware though that our system is based on internet trading as the first call so that if too many people try the phone route you may be unable to get thru on a timely basis and any orders would be on a filled basis only.
I must also point out that the only products that we would consider for this would be the eurex/liffe traded products. This is because the exchange fees for other markets deter this form of service!
The offset of margin is very difficult because whereas exchanges will be quoting only limited products (thus easy to offset) we quote many hundreds. The complexities of sorting out margin offset in these situations might defeat even my IT guys.
Kevin
our quote on the daily FTSE is three pips wide and we have yet to disallow a FTSE trade for market move reasons.
Good Luck today
Simon
If the size is marketable then of course we will take telephone orders on exchange traded products and would try to get fills on an agreed basis. You must be aware though that our system is based on internet trading as the first call so that if too many people try the phone route you may be unable to get thru on a timely basis and any orders would be on a filled basis only.
I must also point out that the only products that we would consider for this would be the eurex/liffe traded products. This is because the exchange fees for other markets deter this form of service!
The offset of margin is very difficult because whereas exchanges will be quoting only limited products (thus easy to offset) we quote many hundreds. The complexities of sorting out margin offset in these situations might defeat even my IT guys.
Kevin
our quote on the daily FTSE is three pips wide and we have yet to disallow a FTSE trade for market move reasons.
Good Luck today
Simon
