Asian Coronavirus Outbreak

[timsk]

. . . How exactly those same governments propose to deal with that looming crisis isn't something we are hearing any of them talk about. One thing that is pretty certain is that the resulting poverty will kill far more people than covid19 possibly could

Very true.
The few that are talking about it are lone voices who aren't provided a platform on mainstream media. The exception that proves the rule is Lord Sumption in his interview with Jonny Dymond on BBC Radio 4's World at One earlier this week. For those that missed it, here's a link with the interview kicking off at 17.05 minutes into the program: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000gt59

One other dissenting voice is Peter Hitchens. This link is to a podcast of the Brendan O'Neill Show and well worth a listen IMO . . .

 

[David Knight]

Hoax evidence asked for- Hoax evidence grows.

Jailed for showing us yet another empty hospital

Man jailed for visiting hospital with no good reason after Facebook boasts

Kierran Stevenson was jailed for three months after saying he was walking around a hospital to see how bad the pandemic was.

metro.co.uk

 

[David Knight]

Surely, it might be better for them to blow the whistle on the hoax, by openly walking through the wards without masks on.
David Knight might feel vindicated.
Unless, it isn't a hoax.

The truth is illegal now- official

 

[Atilla]

Highest number of excess winter deaths since 1999/2000 - Office for National Statistics

Compared to past number of deaths due to flu I don't understand how or why Covid is given so much more air time.

There is something odd and very strange with all this media just talking a common seasonal virus 24x7.

 

[swissy]

What is most extraordinary about all this, bizarrely, is that it will be a resounding success for government policy. By ordering shutdowns to try and spread out the inevitable death toll to manageable rates, governments around the world have also ordered a huge reduction in economic activity unprecedented in its speed and depth. They have required, instructed and requested a massive recession - and they will get just exactly that.

If economic indicators thus far available are anything to go by, then the so called 'great depression' of last century is going to look like a Sunday walk in the park by comparison to whats coming our way.

How exactly those same governments propose to deal with that looming crisis isn't something we are hearing any of them talk about. One thing that is pretty certain is that the resulting poverty will kill far more people than covid19 possibly could.

🤔

The Govt in Australia thinks they are putting business in hibernation. Fairly naive as the “ Lucky Country” has relied on resources for its past wealth.
A global depression will kill demand and prices for resources.
A parochial attitude persists in Australia which has been reinforced by the easy money of the past.
They are in for a shock.... Deckchair and popcorn ready to watch what happens when they try and wean people off the “temporary” generous welfare packages. Everyone is clamouring for free handouts, which are being dutifully provided.
The economy will become a zombie propped up by Govt money with companies that should have failed on life support.
They need to be broadcasting what the strategy will be to get the country going again.... I actually think they are clueless and will try and muddle through.
They are terrified of unemployment, the housing Ponzi scheme in Oz with one of the highest household debt ratios in the world is a house of cards.

 

[counter_violent]

Strong message in this video which seems to deal with a lot of issues raised in this thread, including criticisms of big pharma, govt, regulators, economic shut down etc.

On top of this, the treatment regime keeps people out of hospital.
What's not to like!

 

[new_trader]

In his reply today he wrote: " . . . Here people are not without income. Every one who has lost work or a job owing to the pandemic is guaranteed $2000 a month*; heating and electricity bills have been forgiven in BC; mortgage interest payments have been postponed. So I don’t expect riots and looting to happen here . . ."
* Approx GDP £1,1500 NB: I added the emphasis.

Yes, and some people identified as 'Key Workers' who still have to wake up every morning and go to work, risking their lives, are earning less than that. These people might start demanding 'danger' pay, or do whatever they can to get on the guaranteed $2000 a month gravy train.

 

[MasterOfCoin]

Yes, and some people identified as 'Key Workers' who still have to wake up every morning and go to work, risking their lives, are earning less than that. These people might start demanding 'danger' pay, or do whatever they can to get on the guaranteed $2000 a month gravy train.

Of course they are.
Historical records show that it is always the lowest paid and those at the bottom of the socioeconomic scale that are delegated to deal with the high risk front end tasks. They are considered expendable, after all.
This is encouraged by platitudes of 'bravery' and 'dedication' and accompanied by bouts of public hand-clapping etc.
Nothing new here.

😷

 

[postman]

19th March.
2 months after the China outbreak started no more cases reported.
Italy is 3 weeks into the virus and should be seeing a falling number of cases within days, (lets see how long it takes MSM to report GOOD news like that).
The rest of us in the UK will be following Italy by 10 to 14 days.
All in my non medical opinion of course, just basic maths.
THAT HAPPENED AS EXPECTED
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

23rd March
We've just had 2 days of lower numbers from Italy, the virus is behaving exactly how it did in China despite the lack of lockdowns.
Anyone notice that chart on the BBC news tonight NOT showing the downtrend in Italy and making out the cases there were still rising!
If you want to know whats really happening look at the raw data yourselves it's easy to find.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

30 M arch
Lower numbers of reported cases in the UK seven days after Italy reported lower numbers!
Italy's death rate has been falling for 2 days, expect UK death rate to start falling in 7 days time.
The maths says the total number of deaths will be double the amount from the point of rates reducing, for Italy that will be almost exactly 20,000. Its too early to say for the UK but its likely to be less than 8,000.

Knowledge dispels fear.
THAT HAPPENED AS EXPECTED
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Its still going exactly how the well established mathematical modeling predicts it should! This happens with or without social distancing. We've all been had!

To confirm this after the fact check Mexico and Sweden's numbers with the rest of the world - they carried on as normal and didnt trash their economies.

 

[new_trader]

Of course they are.
Historical records show that it is always the lowest paid and those at the bottom of the socioeconomic scale that are delegated to deal with the high risk front end tasks. They are considered expendable, after all.
This is encouraged by platitudes of 'bravery' and 'dedication' and accompanied by bouts of public hand-clapping etc.
Nothing new here.

😷

Now is the time for health care workers demand a bailout. They should demand that ALL of their debts are forgiven or they stop going to work...we can live without bankers and airlines, but without doctors and nurses?

It's all very well that people sit at home without worry because the Government will take care of them...as long as somebody else keeps working to produce their electricity, their gas, their food, their television, their broadband, their water...etc...I hope that everyone who relies on government is grateful that not everyone in the world is like them.

 

[NVP]

various models being used around the world to handle income shortfalls

handouts for nothing
handouts with conditions
no handouts

the problem is there is no right answer.....human behaviour, the demand for covid workers and the vastly differing financial statuses of each household mean no one will feel it has worked for them ......

for example ....free handouts with no conditions means a massive slap jn the face for any NHS or key worker who is literally risking their life and working long hours while others sit at home moaning that they are bored.....

i think the government should have kept it simple

1) immediately identified NHS workers as royalty and rewarded them for everything they are doing plus incentivised others to get them them ppe and every other damn thing they need to keep saving our ,lives .....its getting there niw...we just need to request that the goverment pays them bonuses for this .....and other benefits

2) just give people loans on 0% interest ....no quibbles......but it is a loan from the goverment and will be paid back in the future ...... and the reason must be valid .....literally for food and shelter.....not paying the bloody sky sports subscription

work the rest out later ......paying 80% to people for furloughs is a joke......its ignored the self employed as they cant afford to pay them as well.....and pushed out the inévitable mass redundancies coming .......50% max in my opinion...... but it still rewards employment over others....the joke is directors are getting screwed whilst their staff are rewarded ....any unions dream scenario

N

 

[timsk]

. . . This is encouraged by platitudes of 'bravery' and 'dedication' and accompanied by bouts of public hand-clapping etc. . .

As a little aside, I'm happy to participate in the Thursday 8.00pm hand clapping ritual. I realise that it's a form of virtue signalling which, in most other circumstances, would make it a no-no, but I think the positives outweigh the negatives. Specifically, I like the sense of people coming together with a common purpose - a positive one - to support NHS staff. And it's very much the staff I do it for, as opposed to the largely dysfunctional and top heavy institution itself. If I was on the front line, I'd take some small comfort from it - which is surely a good thing.
Tim.

 

[new_trader]

As a little aside, I'm happy to participate in the Thursday 8.00pm hand clapping ritual. I realise that it's a form of virtue signalling which, in most other circumstances, would make it a no-no, but I think the positives outweigh the negatives. Specifically, I like the sense of people coming together with a common purpose - a positive one - to support NHS staff. And it's very much the staff I do it for, as opposed to the largely dysfunctional and top heavy institution itself. If I was on the front line, I'd take some small comfort from it - which is surely a good thing.
Tim.

The next time Banks need a bailout, lets just clap our hands instead.

 

[new_trader]

What we are experiencing is essentially socialism, pure and simple, made possible by fiat money. Ask yourself how does printing money produce food or medical care? Sure, the Government can never run out of money by paying you to stay at home, but you need stuff to keep you alive and comfortable, and now the Government is essentially in TOTAL control of the factors of production.

Can't get paint? Sorry the Government says it's non-essential.
Can't get gym equipment? Sorry the Government says it's non-essential.
Can't get a drink in the pub? Sorry the Government says it's non-essential.

 

[postman]

I've altered the Guardians headline to make it truthful.
"Nightingale emergency coronavirus hospital may not be needed as urgently as expected for a below average flu outbreak."

Nightingale emergency coronavirus hospital may not be needed as urgently as expected

London’s intensive care units were expected to be overflowing at this point but are only three-quarters full

www.theguardian.com

 

[cantagril]

..............
Can't get paint? Sorry the Government says it's non-essential.
Can't get gym equipment? Sorry the Government says it's non-essential.
Can't get a drink in the pub? Sorry the Government says it's non-essential.

Can't get Government? Sorry the People say it's non-essential.

 

[new_trader]

"and the reason must be valid .....literally for food and shelter.....not paying the bloody sky sports subscription "

It is this attitude that I find disturbing. The Governments current response and that people agree with it. Nobody has the genius to determine what is essential and what is not. Do you have any idea what the knock-on effect is of shutting down just one part of the economy because it is deemed non-essential?

Would a pencil be considered non-essential right now?

 

[MasterOfCoin]

From the BBC ....

"Ever pragmatic, frontline NHS staff resort to fashioning personal protective equipment (PPE) out of clinical waste bags, plastic aprons and borrowed skiing goggles."

Do you get a blue-peter badge for every face mask you make out of a coffee filter, egg carton and elastic bands ?


But seriously, all rather futile and desperate. Much like when workers attempting to mitigate a nuclear reactor meltdown in progress resorted to suits hastily crafted of clingfilm sealed with sticky tape as protection from radioactive contamination.

 

[new_trader]

From the BBC ....

"Ever pragmatic, frontline NHS staff resort to fashioning personal protective equipment (PPE) out of clinical waste bags, plastic aprons and borrowed skiing goggles."

Do you get a blue-peter badge for every face mask you make out of a coffee filter, egg carton and elastic bands ?


But seriously, all rather futile and desperate. Much like when workers attempting to mitigate a nuclear reactor meltdown in progress resorted to suits hastily crafted of clingfilm sealed with sticky tape as protection from radioactive contamination.

And this is exactly the point of the I Pencil video above...how long before they run our of sticky tape, or plastic aprons, or skiing goggles, because some numbskull determined that some essential part of them was non-essential...!

"Skiing goggles? Nobody should go skiing at a time of crisis like this, shut that stupid factory down and stay home. The Government will pay you and all of your bills...gee we're smart"

 

[barjon]

From the BBC ....

"Ever pragmatic, frontline NHS staff resort to fashioning personal protective equipment (PPE) out of clinical waste bags, plastic aprons and borrowed skiing goggles."

Do you get a blue-peter badge for every face mask you make out of a coffee filter, egg carton and elastic bands ?


But seriously, all rather futile and desperate. Much like when workers attempting to mitigate a nuclear reactor meltdown in progress resorted to suits hastily crafted of clingfilm sealed with sticky tape as protection from radioactive contamination.

Oh come on MoC, so far as this thread is concerned it’s all a fuss about nothing so even a plastic bin bag is going wildly over the top..

Mind you, it will be interesting to see how Sweden get on where it’s pretty much life as normal. They don’t seem to be suffering massive increase in cases and deaths as yet.