All vendors are crooks!!

He was hot sh*t and decided to move on. The consensus among his adversaries is that he was just regular sh*t and was told to move on.

LOL - I never said I was hot ****. I said I decided to move to trading from home.

Scose ; try re-phrasing the question at them. Ask them if they have EVER given ANYONE the boot. It certainly didn't happen in the 18 months I was there...but that might clarify the issue :)
 
LOL - I never said I was hot ****. I said I decided to move to trading from home.

Scose ; try re-phrasing the question at them. Ask them if they have EVER given ANYONE the boot. It certainly didn't happen in the 18 months I was there...but that might clarify the issue :)

wat?! when you were there, no one was kicked out?
was anybody let in?
did anybody leave?
 
LOL - I never said I was hot ****. I said I decided to move to trading from home.

Scose ; try re-phrasing the question at them. Ask them if they have EVER given ANYONE the boot. It certainly didn't happen in the 18 months I was there...but that might clarify the issue :)

this is getting tedious and the thread is going nowhere. Are you actually going to prove you can trade or not? I hope you prove everybody wrong,
 
LOL - I never said I was hot ****

Actually, Tom, this is verbatim.

@ Flash - why do you give a c0ck if he can trade? You gonna stump up his extortionate fees? Are you waving your willy towards a new found hero?

@ FUTEX - you're full of sh*t. 7k they asked me for and for what?I nearly p*ssed my pants laughing. Now you won't answer a simple question despite express permission! Boo Futex. My opinon of you has really gone down.
 
Actually, Tom, this is verbatim.

@ Flash - why do you give a c0ck if he can trade? You gonna stump up his extortionate fees? Are you waving your willy towards a new found hero?

@ FUTEX - you're full of sh*t. 7k they asked me for and for what?I nearly p*ssed my pants laughing. Now you won't answer a simple question despite express permission! Boo Futex. My opinon of you has really gone down.

I must have missed the fees bit, how much are they? Ive had one mentor on here extract £600 from me years ago and I can assure you that will be the only time I suffer like that. as for waving my willy towards a new found hero,I suggest you take yours out of the custard and read between the lines
 
Nah I like classier dames. I'm a classy guy.

2620-noemie01_L.jpg
 
I can see from a business point of view why it's reasonable to have another income. But I wonder how many vendors who sell training actually consider whether they should from a moral point of view. For the money sure, but there's such a thing as integrity. There should be limits to what you will do for money. And you should consider whether you are doing more harm than good.

So how many training vendors consider whether they are properly qualified to train another trader or whether the manner in which they are doing it is appropriate? I don't think that being profitable automatically makes you qualified. Not being profitable obviously disqualifies you, but there are different levels of profitability, there are so many trading styles on so many different instruments and different timeframes, that you'd need to be an expert in many of these to be able to train someone. Otherwise you could just be doing harm.

Suppose like TD claims he is profitable with pin bars. What if your client wants to trade the 1-minute chart, do they work there? Does the vendor even know? What if your vendor is more like DToast, and he uses DOM and a bit of intraday charting, yet the client isn't suited to trade intraday, his personality is more for daily or weeklies, would DToast telling him that technical analysis is pointless and that he should watch the DOM help him in learning or set him back months or years? If you wanted to be a brain surgeon would you be happy to study under only a GP? It can take a long time just to get good in one methodology.

It doesn't work like this in other fields. If you train to be a doctor, there's no ONE doctor who will take you from student to qualified professional. You'll have to study under many doctors, each a proven expert in a particular field, teaching material that's been proven to work over the years, in a structured way. And then the student is supervised by several doctors to check that he is learning. How many vendors sit with their students and watch them trade at different times of their progression? Seems like dereliction of duty to me if they don't, but I'd bet 99% don't.

And when it comes to things that are less structured and well known, like original research/PhDs etc, or when a doctor is actually practicing, an instructor/mentor is usually expected to take on a only a handful of students, perhaps even one or two max per year to train them properly over the years. Because any more than that, and the instructor won't be able to focus enough on the success of the student. It would be immoral to take more than that. But vendors typically take on how many for training? Even if they have something valuable to teach, they've probably diluted it down to almost worthless just by this.


Have you considered all this T_D? Have any vendors considered these issues or do they simply ignore all this and just enjoy their monthly subscriptions?
 
Forgive me for my "ignorance" but I don't understand why the financial argument doesn't stack up.

Since we are talking hypothetically here lets assume a few things (and I'll use Dion as an example)

Let's assume he's been profitable for four years. In his first year he started with a small account as he had only just learn the ropes and he made $50,000. Second year he did very well, always upping his size and made $80,000 profit. Third year he made even more ; $130,000. Last year he made, lets say $150,000. The account would be growing steadily ; the performance would show clearly he is extremely profitable and making very good money by most peoples standards. That would be irrefutable.

Now lets say that he can develop some very useful software for traders. He charges $300 and it hits the big time and is bought in bulk by firms for their traders and locals all across the world. Lets say in his first year he shifts 1000. So he's made $300,000 (or double his latest and best year) for taking absolutely no risk and making some software he believes in and which he thinks can help people.

Assuming all the above elements are true, there's a term for this in business (and in trading) it's called a no brainer.

Naturally, the same theory could easily be applied to a trading room. If a trader takes 3 - 5 trades a week and spends the rest of the time sitting there watching the markets, why on earth would he not make a risk free return for filling empty hours? It's hardly difficult to talk on a mic and show people what you are doing.

Part of the reason people always ask this question is because they presume all profitable traders have the key to making millions which really only goes to prove one thing ; they clearly have no idea of how the market works.

I used to know an outstanding trader. His up days averaged around £1,500 and he probably had a down day, averaging around £500 once every two weeks. He was about 2 years into the game, extremely consistent and made extremely good money. He worked long hours and very hard too. He had some liquidity issues that meant that while he could continue to make that money he had temporarily reached a glass ceiling of sorts and his skill, whilst transferable to a larger market like the spooz was also going to take some time to implement and adjust too.

One day he said to me out of the blue : "I'm tempted to set up a website - it would be hard scalping live infront of people because of the pressure and I don't know if I could talk and concentrate at the same time but maybe I can record my day and talk over the top of it after illustrating what I did".

My first reaction was "probably not worth the hassle mate - you're killing it as it is". He just looked at me like I was the biggest f*cking moron to ever walk the earth and said : Get 200 people to join a website paying £150 a month and thats £360k a year for...er...recording some videos? You don't think thats worth it?

As I said, that was straight from the mouth of a highly profitable and excellent trader.

But it's hardly surprising is it? There's another term for it. It's called business. The question of why do vendors do it is so interesting coming from "traders" because as a trader, it's all about return (and let's not forget rate of it too, right?)

It actually baffles me why people ask it all the time!

If I turned this on its head and said to you "you're a web designer for a company and earn £100k a year. Would you take on 2 extra hours work per day to freelance outside your company and get well over a 100% increase on your salary, are you telling me you would honestly say no?"

As I said, this all presumes that the material shown is good, that the trader is profitable etc etc. But since you already presumed that, this is my answer.

All true...

Plus - some people have smaller balls than others.

A guy I chat with regularly lost $40k last week, 2 months of profits gone. We had a chat yesterday and he'd made it back.

Now - this guy has some serious balls to go in the way he does.

Not all of us are equipped with such gonads and are condemned to grow slowly.

So assumptions about how much you make trading are not just about account size but about ball size too...
 
I take the point that there's easy money to be made but this vendor gig isnt really scalable is it ?

I also think there's a distinction to be be drawn between selling materials originally created for your own benefit, and materials specifically produced to meet the needs or demands of punters.

I assume Mr Toasts software was originally written for his own use, before he turned to the dark side ?
.

Indeedy.

I wrote it all in Excel and shared with friends before I went commercial, mostly after taking their advice to.

At first, the whole thing became a huge pain and then the markets picked up pace during development I found that the duct-taped Excel version couldn't keep up with the markets.

For about 3 months I couldn't use one of the tools myself.

So - if I hadn't got the programmer to write the commercial app, I wouldn't even have a version I could use myself.

So - it's a good job I got the proper version done
 
LOL - I never said I was hot ****. I said I decided to move to trading from home.

Scose ; try re-phrasing the question at them. Ask them if they have EVER given ANYONE the boot. It certainly didn't happen in the 18 months I was there...but that might clarify the issue :)

So you weren't funded?

You were paying them to be there?
 
Suppose like TD claims he is profitable with pin bars. What if your client wants to trade the 1-minute chart, do they work there? Does the vendor even know? What if your vendor is more like DToast, and he uses DOM and a bit of intraday charting, yet the client isn't suited to trade intraday, his personality is more for daily or weeklies, would DToast telling him that technical analysis is pointless and that he should watch the DOM help him in learning or set him back months or years? If you wanted to be a brain surgeon would you be happy to study under only a GP? It can take a long time just to get good in one methodology.

I can tell you what I do. I let people try the software & I let them extend the trial if they aren't sure. The longest trial has been 1 month. Most have made their minds up after a week. The company that works on my landing pages keep telling me I should drop the trial to get more customers. We have agreed to disagree on that.

I'd say about 20% of the people taking a trial contact me directly. For those, all I can do is tell them what I do with it. I am fairly open about the fact I can't trade thin markets like CL, NQ but I have customers that do.

Anyone here could pose as a customer now or in 3 months time and blow me out of the water if I started to lay on the BS.

In the 9 or so months we've been going, only 1 person has asked for a reference from an existing customer.

In terms of someone suited to dailies or weeklies, I've never really thought about it. The punters generally fall into 3 categories.

1 - Those who want to day trade but have no useful knowledge of how the markets work/areas to look to trade
2 - Those that have a grasp of how the markets work and are looking for icing on the cake
3 - Profitable traders, mostly XTrader users that want the additional visibility.

I don't think I've come across someone that had never considered day trading yet, the web site has 'day trading' written all over it. To be honest, I've never even considered asking anyone about that. I sort of presumed it.

Thing is - it's fairly easy to let people try a bit of software. Not so easy with mentoring/teaching.
 
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