Why do people lose money on the market?

[SOCRATES]

Soc: My answer in post 49 does not address it then?

For Me, this is what has happened to bring about a situation where I am not losing money in the market, so in my own case it is the answer, is it not?

I have read your post number 49.

You are on the right track so don't change a thing if it is working for you, but it has to work consistently, you understand, in order for the track you are following to be compelety validated.

Now try a little experiment...push the envelope a little bit and see if you encounter anything, and come back to me when you have done it. ok ?

 

[SOCRATES]

Hummmm

Is the root related to the understanding of when a share is been bumped up owing to market trickery and/or public mass hysteria. Is the root of success, master, the ability to understand this phenomenon, and then to have the mental will to step aside from joining in with the crowd?

I back this theory up by the dot com boom,and also the boom in gaming shares. Despite the warning that the USA government were going to push though legislation this information was discarded by the public who were told by others that such legislation would never happen. The shares in gaming stock remained high right up until the announcement in America and then they crashed.

The root I suggest is to posses the mental ability to know which information to believe and which to ignore. To understand when a share is been brought due to frenzy, and to know when a share is been artificially lowered?

It is part of success. This part of success is attributable to knowledge and skill. It is one of the component parts of success, such as timing, for example, but not the root, no.

 

[in2uxs]

Upon analysing past posts i am to believe that the root is solely a psychological issue rather than a tangible or learnt requirement?

 

[BroadSword]

I have read your post number 49.

You are on the right track so don't change a thing if it is working for you, but it has to work consistently, you understand, in order for the track you are following to be compelety validated.

Now try a little experiment...push the envelope a little bit and see if you encounter anything, and come back to me when you have done it. ok ?

By 'push the envelope' do you mean increase trade size or attempt to achieve a higher return on the account size, through greater risk etc?

If so, I can tell you now what happens...

 

[in2uxs]

By 'push the envelope' do you mean increase trade size or attempt to achieve a higher return on the account size, through greater risk etc?

If so, I can tell you now what happens...

LOL

To true brother. To true.

 

[SOCRATES]

By 'push the envelope' do you mean increase trade size or attempt to achieve a higher return on the account size, through greater risk etc?

If so, I can tell you now what happens...

No, that is not what I mean at all.

I mean pushing the envelope of your own level of awareness and not of size, or exposure.

That comes later.

 

[SOCRATES]

Upon analysing past posts i am to believe that the root is solely a psychological issue rather than a tangible or learnt requirement?

Yes, but everything hinges on it, everything depends on it, and everything relates to it.

 

[texral]

character?

 

[SOCRATES]

character?

Not altogether. It is a very important component but not the root.

 

[henry766]

You guys should be ashamed of yourselves , what's more baiting poor dumb animals is now illegal, a lack of respect for fellow board members is the root of this problem.

 

[Crawsthorne]

Not altogether. It is a very important component but not the root.

Following on from Broadsword's post 49, the aim is to accept that the market can and will do anything at any time, but as long as this is handled by your system and the balance of probabilities places the net result in your favour, there is no serious reason to change the system. Thus, the short term outcome of a particular sequence of trades is not relevant. Easy to say but not so easy to do!!

 

[BroadSword]

Following on from Broadsword's post 49, the aim is to accept that the market can and will do anything at any time, but as long as this is handled by your system and the balance of probabilities places the net result in your favour, there is no serious reason to change the system. Thus, the short term outcome of a particular sequence of trades is not relevant. Easy to say but not so easy to do!!

Exactly so, in my opinion.

I also believe that the more you do this, and consequently the more you experience it working, the easier it becomes to stick to it.

 

[SOCRATES]

Following on from Broadsword's post 49, the aim is to accept that the market can and will do anything at any time, but as long as this is handled by your system and the balance of probabilities places the net result in your favour, there is no serious reason to change the system. Thus, the short term outcome of a particular sequence of trades is not relevant. Easy to say but not so easy to do!!

I agree with your post and what Broadsword replies to you above, very well put. Why do you think it may be easy to say but not so easy to do ?

 

[Charlton]

All of the above is quite correct.

But it seems as if what I ask is not understood.

My question remains:~

What is the root of it ? So far there hasn't been a proper answer.

Socrates

As you are aware we hav a lot in common. We agree on a number of matters, The posting to which you refer is a response to a posting by WASP and isi not ntended as a response to your question but to WASPs remarks. I make no reference to your question and make no pretence to understand it or not uunderstand it.

So it is not designed to be a proper answer or improper answer.

With respect, Socrates, your question is designed to illicit only one response which is the one which is in total accordance with the pre-defined response you have determined. Any one of us can ask a question and say NO that is not the correct answer until someone responds with the exact word or phrase we seek. regardless of whether suggested solutions are close to the mark i.e in your opinion are the ones you are seeking.

I refuse to play a game of cat and mouse to find the exact word or the exact phrase you seek as an answer to your question.

There are many paths to the truth

Charlton

 

[dbphoenix]

All of you are free to pull out the strings on which Bertie is pulling as puppetmaster and find your own way. Or you can continue to play these same idiot games of which he is so fond and arrive at the same tired answer that he always arrives at.

If any of you, when you were small, knew any kids who got off on torturing small animals, you'll understand what's going on here and leave him to his self-absorption.

 

[SOCRATES]

Beecause just saying it is entirely abstract and a such bears no responsibility for any given circumstance (such as a trade taken), you are therefore emotionally uninvolved by saying it, but (possibly) not emotionally uninvolved when you have to do it.

The more you can do it an experience it working (on the whole, etc there will of course be losing trades in any profitable method), the less of couse it remains emotionally involving.

A self fulfilling prophicy?

Yes, that is correct, the key word must be responsibility. Then if there is no responisbility even if there is an emotional involvement it does not really count does it ?

But the problem is that the risk of emotional involvement exists all the time doesn't it, even when you are trying to suppress it ?

Then repetition is not the solution either.

Repetition is the solution but without the emotional involvement to spoil it must be the answer don't you think ?

 

[SOCRATES]

Socrates

As you are aware we hav a lot in common. We agree on a number of matters, The posting to which you refer is a response to a posting by WASP and isi not ntended as a response to your question but to WASPs remarks. I make no reference to your question and make no pretence to understand it or not uunderstand it.

So it is not designed to be a proper answer or improper answer.

With respect, Socrates, your question is designed to illicit only one response which is the one which is in total accordance with the pre-defined response you have determined. Any one of us can ask a question and say NO that is not the correct answer until someone responds with the exact word or phrase we seek. regardless of whether suggested solutions are close to the mark i.e in your opinion are the ones you are seeking.

I refuse to play a game of cat and mouse to find the exact word or the exact phrase you seek as an answer to your question.

There are many paths to the truth

Charlton

Exactly.

But this is not cat and mouse. You encourage intellectually challenged individuals to interrupt by implying that it is.

It attracts the attention of individuals who are out of their depth to comment.

Look at all of this carefully and you will see it is careful channelling of reasoning.

The object of the excercise is to bring about a realisation.

So it is much deeper and more meaningful than you might conclude just as the result of a cursory glance without deeper reflection.

I am off to bed, the games start at 0800 hours, goodnight.

 

[Charlton]

Exactly.

But this is not cat and mouse. You encourage intellectually challenged individuals to interrupt by implying that it is.

It attracts the attention of individuals who are out of their depth to comment.

Look at all of this carefully and you will see it is careful channelling of reasoning.

The object of the excercise is to bring about a realisation.

So it is much deeper and more meaningful than you might conclude just as the result of a cursory glance without deeper reflection.

I am off to bed, the games start at 0800 hours, goodnight.

Socrates

I appreciate that the purpose of this is to bring about a realisaation and I hope and expect that the realisation you are thinking of will be revealed.

The problem I have is the process. I might ask a question: what is the root of x ? You might reply: it is y. I will say no. Another might reply: it is z, and again i say no. If pressed I might reply it is omega. If not pressed I might reply seek another answer until you arrive at the same answer that I am thinking of.

If you want participation in this process you must, at least , guarantee that after reasonable attempts by participants you will reveal what you consider to be the answer, assuming of course you think there is an answer !

But as I said earlier I am not going to particpate publicly in careful channelling of reasoning in this case, because my careful channelling might not arrive at the same place as yours or at tje same realisation, even though both or one or the other might be valid.

As you say this could become very interesting

All the best


Charlton

 

[in2uxs]

I knock off early last night in order to ponder this "root". After much thinking an answer I have found.

It would seem that this is an exercise to illustrate how the masses are so willing to chase after secret formulas. The thoughts of easy wealth by knowing a “secret” alone creates the masses to descend swarm like around he who says he posses such information.

Those who can create such a swarming frenzy do indeed posses one thing that the masses are either to lazy or incapable of possessing – and that is nothing more than an insight into human behaviour. It is insight alone that gives us patience, power, and ultimately success. Only when we have insight, and stop chasing “secrets” can we become truly successful.

 

[TWI]

This is all getting a bit deep which is possibly the primary issue for most people.
It's a numbers game, there are no crystal ball predictions there are only probabilities.
Once you have realised the above fact then you have also realised that a win or loss on a trade is irrelevant, what matters is that you have the discipline to continue to exploit your edge in the same way on the next trade irrespective of what happened on the last.
I am sure that almost anybody can find a way to make money in the markets but in my experience the majority struggle when it comes to sticking to it. The common theme I find in traders who have been in this game for a long time is the discipline of method and the neutral reaction to profit or loss on any given trade.