dbphoenix
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And there are all those little red and green lights telling you when to buy and sell . . .
What percentage of people lose money in the stock market?
And there are all those little red and green lights telling you when to buy and sell . . .
BSD
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Nice ones there, Rhody and Phoenix ;-)
Re trading failure, I'm always slightly mystified by the interest in these figures of gloom and doom.
Per country and per Universe there can't be more than one head of government at any one time, yet that little fact certainly doesn't dissuade people from entering the ego trip of politics where most have ambitions of making it to the top.
A clear majority of people starting out as entrepreneurs end up broke after a few years, yet that doesn't dissuade others from attempting to achieve their dreams of working for themselves.
People shouldn't waste so much time worrying or wondering about what others are doing, others are others, and you are you.
People should simply define for themselves what exactly they want, and then set about getting the skills and instruments they need to get where they want to go, and then just concentrate on doing the best job they possibly can on their journey.
That's all that's needed, leave all this interest in what others are doing to the chronic gossip mongers or jealousy driven underachievers.
Re trading failure, I'm always slightly mystified by the interest in these figures of gloom and doom.
Per country and per Universe there can't be more than one head of government at any one time, yet that little fact certainly doesn't dissuade people from entering the ego trip of politics where most have ambitions of making it to the top.
A clear majority of people starting out as entrepreneurs end up broke after a few years, yet that doesn't dissuade others from attempting to achieve their dreams of working for themselves.
People shouldn't waste so much time worrying or wondering about what others are doing, others are others, and you are you.
People should simply define for themselves what exactly they want, and then set about getting the skills and instruments they need to get where they want to go, and then just concentrate on doing the best job they possibly can on their journey.
That's all that's needed, leave all this interest in what others are doing to the chronic gossip mongers or jealousy driven underachievers.
I think this is an interesting discussion but a few things need to be quantified.
Take the "95% of traders are losers" figure. How do you define loser? Someone that is currently down on their account? Well that doesnt mean they are "losing" traders, some of the top performing funds may be down for the first 6 months of the year and still give a 20%+ return. Depends on time horizon.
Do you class losing traders as someone that has lost all their money in their account, well this can happen in 1 or 2 trades as im sure people can associate with when they think of the early days. I, think for the purpose of this discussion, you can ignore all people that have been trading under a year otherwise its like saying how many people are bad drivers and then include all the people on the road that havent got their license yet.
SO. This leaves us quantifying losing traders as a sample based on whether you have a positive return on the year assuming you have been trading more than a year. I think this figure would have a percentage far lower than 95% failed traders.
As for arguments suggesting there is an element of luck and would expect there to be a 50/50 success to failure ratio its important to look at the results of winning traders for consistency. Of course there is a random element to all things but I personally work with traders that make 100's of trades a day and havent had a down week for over 6 months, and havent had a down month for several years. Im no maths genius but the this suggests to me there is a definate obtainable "edge" in the market. But the sequence of your successful trades are random which is why you need a long timeframe to quantify who makes money or doesnt.
Hope this is of use
Take the "95% of traders are losers" figure. How do you define loser? Someone that is currently down on their account? Well that doesnt mean they are "losing" traders, some of the top performing funds may be down for the first 6 months of the year and still give a 20%+ return. Depends on time horizon.
Do you class losing traders as someone that has lost all their money in their account, well this can happen in 1 or 2 trades as im sure people can associate with when they think of the early days. I, think for the purpose of this discussion, you can ignore all people that have been trading under a year otherwise its like saying how many people are bad drivers and then include all the people on the road that havent got their license yet.
SO. This leaves us quantifying losing traders as a sample based on whether you have a positive return on the year assuming you have been trading more than a year. I think this figure would have a percentage far lower than 95% failed traders.
As for arguments suggesting there is an element of luck and would expect there to be a 50/50 success to failure ratio its important to look at the results of winning traders for consistency. Of course there is a random element to all things but I personally work with traders that make 100's of trades a day and havent had a down week for over 6 months, and havent had a down month for several years. Im no maths genius but the this suggests to me there is a definate obtainable "edge" in the market. But the sequence of your successful trades are random which is why you need a long timeframe to quantify who makes money or doesnt.
Hope this is of use
Rhody Trader
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A spot on commentary!
This is exactly why I've taken to talking about "effective" trading vs. "successful" trading. The former terms implies a focus on execution and moving toward a defined objective. The latter is a vague term too often tied in with what other traders are doing (or at least what it is perceived they are doing).
theroguetrader
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brilliant post at the top guys - so cool to hear some positivity and an anythings possible mentality - because - IT IS ....... !!
" If you can master YOURSELF - you will master the markets ..........!!
" If you can master YOURSELF - you will master the markets ..........!!
BSD
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I like that, it also sort of evokes images of Zen & the art of trading.
"Zen in the Markets - Eddie Toppel Confessions of a Samurai Trader"
Haven't read his book yet, but I find it rather interesting that Toppel managed to discover the relevance of Zen while trading in the incredibly noisy and activist atmosphere of a trading floor - in his case the the S&P 500 futures pit in the Chicago Mercantile Exchange - where he spent 20 years as an independent trader surrounded by others literally breathing down his neck and yelling in his ears during working hours, after having started out at Bear Stearns.
That's really a testimony to the ability to let go, including of ones immediate surroundings.
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RogerTheTrader
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I completely concur. My mantra is: Become a great trader. The money will follow.
Master the art and science of trading. Begin with yourself. Know the type of person you are. Establish risk management rules. Then, go find an instrument to trade.
I've heard that 60% of traders will lose money and quit within the first six months. These are people that are attempting to TRADE, either part-time or full-time, as opposed to investing.
At the end of the day, it only matters what YOU do. 99.99% of the traders could lose money and quit on day TWO and I'd still be doing this.
I think a combination of long trades and day trades work well. Everyone takes a loss. Patience is something many people dont have. They see the huge profits and make mistakes. In most cases when you look closer you notice that what goes down also comes back up and vice versa. Its just a matter of time. They go OMG I lost some money and throw in the towel. A couple of days later or even in the same day they notice the same chart and its where they wanted it to be and they kick themselves. Thats why every where you look it says dont use more than you can afford to lose. If you wont miss it then you wont make silly mistakes. As for special bubble im sure it exsists but even if it does they cant stop you from being a part of it. The right place at the right time. Brokers make vast amounts of money every year and its day traders paying the bill. If we all took on long trades they would all be out of work.
0007
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I agree because I have read lots and still do. I want to know where my opportunity' to make a profit or suffer a loss might be through popular technical analysis. Then I dont go its hit that line sell or buy I wait. Every broker wants you to place stops and limits. It means they get more money from you. Think about it every time you use them they get paid from you joining the game again. My fundamental analysis is and always will be based on what a company is worth in relation to the price or how a country's economy is doing for forex.
0007
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frontier2002
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i think nobody is exciting enough to tell how much the losses. And brokers are not kind enough to tell us how much they make from our losses.
so i guess nobody's static is true. those are simply guessing
During the post 87 crash, most who had been in the stock market would be winners.
Over the past 5 yrs it would be a few who gained.
As for intra day trading over all pierods 90%+ will loose
There are 100s of senarios of who wins and looses.
Need we say any more when we mention Leaham Bros ect ect ........
Over the past 5 yrs it would be a few who gained.
As for intra day trading over all pierods 90%+ will loose
There are 100s of senarios of who wins and looses.
Need we say any more when we mention Leaham Bros ect ect ........
Hoggums
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100% - yes EVERYBODY loses money in the markets [Edit - apart from TRO - sorry that just slipped my mind for a second there].
It just that a few have made more previously thus being profitable overall.
This is why newbies fail - they don't consider the possibility that they will lose money on trades and as soon as they get a trade go awry - that they've held on to in hope, they take the loss and give up.
It just that a few have made more previously thus being profitable overall.
This is why newbies fail - they don't consider the possibility that they will lose money on trades and as soon as they get a trade go awry - that they've held on to in hope, they take the loss and give up.
savioursofpop
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I've had a figure in my mind for a couple of years I read somewhere -90% of all spread betters lose their entire capital stake within 2 years
Invest when your 21 ( if you have the forsight ) then add little and often for 30 yrs then take it out when your ready.
This will give a good return on capital.
But so dose priemium bonds ............
If anyone got money to invest in todays markets look long and hard before taking the plunge.
I do know something that is going to be the next big thing, will take 5yrs before you at least double our money.
This business is about to be listed 2010 and its energy related that is all Im going to say and its in calefornia, if you look long enough you will find it.
This will give a good return on capital.
But so dose priemium bonds ............
If anyone got money to invest in todays markets look long and hard before taking the plunge.
I do know something that is going to be the next big thing, will take 5yrs before you at least double our money.
This business is about to be listed 2010 and its energy related that is all Im going to say and its in calefornia, if you look long enough you will find it.
oildaytrader
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Hi
What percentage of traders make money and what percentage of investors make money in the stock markets?Making money definition is: excess profits above interest potential on capital.
95 % of investors do lose money in the stock markets.Investors and not traders have to pay stamp duty ,brokerage and annual management fees.The real rate of return on ftse all share over last 10 years is negative.Many of these companies have not paid any dividends, and losses on companies liquidated are not included.
http://www.ftse.com/Indices/UK_Indices/Downloads/FTSE_All-Share_Index_Factsheet.pdf
Some skilful traders make money very few and very rarely do we achieve success.
O D T
What percentage of traders make money and what percentage of investors make money in the stock markets?Making money definition is: excess profits above interest potential on capital.
95 % of investors do lose money in the stock markets.Investors and not traders have to pay stamp duty ,brokerage and annual management fees.The real rate of return on ftse all share over last 10 years is negative.Many of these companies have not paid any dividends, and losses on companies liquidated are not included.
http://www.ftse.com/Indices/UK_Indices/Downloads/FTSE_All-Share_Index_Factsheet.pdf
Some skilful traders make money very few and very rarely do we achieve success.
O D T
Hi
I cannot find any figure concerning losing traders percentage ....
Does anyone has a link to any kind of confirmed data on the issue?
Many thanks in advance
Very good perspective
