Vendor Performance Thread

[dbphoenix]

db,

Do you think any person of at least average intelligence would accuse you of just being lucky if you made a few live trade calls that made a profit? I don't stand to make any money out of what I post here apart from if I actually practice what I preach.

What's the point, unless you want that person to depend on you for calls for the rest of his life? Even if you were trading for a living and were consistently profitable, so what? Msking calls serves no useful purpose.

 

[Crap Buddist]

What's the point, unless you want that person to depend on you for calls for the rest of his life? Even if you were trading for a living and were consistently profitable, so what? Msking calls serves no useful purpose.

Maybe its a pack thing, I mean I expect even in some trading rooms there might be something like "Looks like cables bottoming" shouted by ? well whoever calls it, now a pack of traders who may "listen" to it might look to long or hold off shorting or close short.

Yes I would listen but think, and want to say back , yeah already long, or "cant see it" and that would be that. It wouldn't sway my decision, more like "Office banter"
I mean home traders may suffer isolation and want to chat about the action. With those who share similar interests. So I can see why calls are communicated, just for interaction maybe over a 4 /8 hour stretch.

 

[firewalker99]

Maybe its a pack thing, I mean I expect even in some trading rooms there might be something like "Looks like cables bottoming" shouted by ? well whoever calls it, now a pack of traders who may "listen" to it might look to long or hold off shorting or close short.

Yes I would listen but think, and want to say back , yeah already long, or "cant see it" and that would be that. It wouldn't sway my decision, more like "Office banter"
I mean home traders may suffer isolation and want to chat about the action. With those who share similar interests. So I can see why calls are communicated, just for interaction maybe over a 4 /8 hour stretch.

I can't see how making calls in the nature of "I'm long from two hours ago" add anything to the learning process. Which I why I stopped posting trades in public threads. Too many people apparently posting "after the event" for the sake of company or just because they'd like to be in on the party I guess. And when you confronted them with their reasons for taking a trade, they'd usually give different reasons for each trade. Although I'm sure some traders have different setups in their arsenal, I am suspicious of anybody who can come up with yet another different reason for each new trade.

 

[Sharky]

Any attempt to prevent the vendor posting, either by reasoned argument, or by fighting fire with fire, or by attempting to call them out with a challenge to back up their claims is actually damaging to the site. This sort of behavior frightens off other potential vendors, and the site needs its vendors to continue to maintain the illusion that the site is actually working.

This is plainly incorrect - the premise that the site needs vendors to work is fantasy, the site doesn't need a single vendor to post in it's forum in order to be successful. If we all agreed that vendors have nothing to contribute to the site, we would simply ban anyone with a commercial interest from registering.

I would be very interested in helping to develop a sort of a "due diligence questionnaire" to help protect clients from unscrupulous vendors. I think this would accomplish the goal of this thread if done properly and would be an invaluable resource. What do you think?

jj

It's certainly plausible that we could start a 'seal of approval' program, whereby reputable vendors, that know what they're doing and who don't spam can apply for the seal which basically says, they're at the very least, honourable.

Limiting the number of threads a vendor could start (1?), could be a way to solve this problem.

It's quite easy for us to implement restrictions based on a usergroup - hence all vendors can be restricted to certain forum, or only posting threads after posting x posts, or require a minimum rep score to post - basically we can set up any sort of restrictions, really just up to the imagination.

While I am all for direct communication between those who are responsible for implementing changes and the members, I suggest that the number of people who would attend a "chat session" will likely be disappointing, after which we get a new round of "why don't people participate?"

So the question becomes why a chat session is superior to a thread?

Sharky, I agree with dbphoenix on this. I see no reason to use any other means of communication than those who are already in place. I believe you already proposed that in the advisor group, and there wasn't exactly much anime at that time neither.

It would be nice to have a timetable, but perhaps easier than that is just to create a discussion thread where after a week or so a poll is initiated and some decisions are being made, after everybody who showed interest has had the chance to share their opinion.

Okay, fair point, if you think threads are adequate them im happy to leave it at that. I think that having a weekly thread whereby action points are pulled out and agreed with a timetable for change is an excellent idea.

Actually, now that the blog system is finally in place, this is not difficult at all. Create a separate category for each system, and those who want to post something regarding a particular category can do so, and whoever is maintaining the blog can keep all these discrete discussions going separately. Like a juggler.

This has the added advantage of keeping the vendor out of everybody's hair.

Certainly we can do this, and if not insist then at least encourage vendors to keep live trades to the blogs section, which itself could be rebranded live trades section.

At one time T2W implemented some sort of scheme in which various charities would benefit from trades called by members, and if I recall correctly, the site, and one of the advertisers topped up the account each month to cover trading losses.

I would suggest that the same offer be extended to vendors, T2W fund a small account, the vendors trade the account with an agreement that any profits are paid to a charity of their choice, and that they cover losses each month to top up the account to its initial starting balance.

Worth looking into. We also have the live forex competition don't forget, we could upgrade this or change it completely to act as some sort of why of tracking a vendors claims - they could also add their own mechanical system that automates the trades. This is something I'm very keen on upgrading the forex competition - it has the potential to be a very useful thing, allbeit in the forex arena.

 

[new_trader]

What's the point, unless you want that person to depend on you for calls for the rest of his life? Even if you were trading for a living and were consistently profitable, so what? Msking calls serves no useful purpose.

You are taking what I am saying out of context. There is the live calls aspect and the forum aspect, one supplementing the other. If someone is trying to make money out of the forum aspect I think that much more emphasis must be placed on the live calls aspect.

 

[Crap Buddist]

I can't see how making calls in the nature of "I'm long from two hours ago" add anything to the learning process. Which I why I stopped posting trades in public threads. Too many people apparently posting "after the event" for the sake of company or just because they'd like to be in on the party I guess. And when you confronted them with their reasons for taking a trade, they'd usually give different reasons for each trade. Although I'm sure some traders have different setups in their arsenal, I am suspicious of anybody who can come up with yet another different reason for each new trade.

yeah understand, but if people are following a market and someone says "looks like a bottoms going in" thats normal chin wag, someone following might be able to think bottom ? hmmm damn i was gonna sell that, or yah thinking of going long meself. Otherwise this board may aswell be silent and discuss nothing if no one trusts anyone.

I dunno, good trading , progress i'm sure will be made soon enough .

 

[firewalker99]

yeah understand, but if people are following a market and someone says "looks like a bottoms going in" thats normal chin wag, someone following might be able to think bottom ? hmmm damn i was gonna sell that, or yah thinking of going long meself. Otherwise this board may aswell be silent and discuss nothing if no one trusts anyone.

I dunno, good trading , progress i'm sure will be made soon enough .

The risk when people sharing their trades is that some might be persuaded into not taking a trade or taking a trade they'd otherwise wouldn't have made. It's easy to become influenced by other people. Comments from other traders shouldn't affect your own decisions, after all you know what you are looking for and what anybody else is looking for or at might be something completely different.

 

[rols]

From the horses mouth.

This is plainly incorrect - the premise that the site needs vendors to work is fantasy, the site doesn't need a single vendor to post in it's forum in order to be successful. If we all agreed that vendors have nothing to contribute to the site, we would simply ban anyone with a commercial interest from registering.
.

Well what are we waiting for?

Let's have a referendum.

Just a simple Yes or No.

Two weeks of voting. Polling booth prominently displayed. Vendors excepted of course.

 

[firewalker99]

It's quite easy for us to implement restrictions based on a usergroup - hence all vendors can be restricted to certain forum, or only posting threads after posting x posts, or require a minimum rep score to post - basically we can set up any sort of restrictions, really just up to the imagination.

Certainly we can do this, and if not insist then at least encourage vendors to keep live trades to the blogs section, which itself could be rebranded live trades section.

Given that both the above options are probably the quickest and easiest to implement, what are we waiting for?

Make it so, Mr. Crusher

 

[firewalker99]

Well what are we waiting for?

Let's have a referendum.

Just a simple Yes or No.

Two weeks of voting. Polling booth prominently displayed. Vendors excepted of course.

Engage!

Edit: just realized your referendum wasn't quite what I had in mind. Sorry, I thought we were voting on Sharky's proposals... not about getting rid of all the vendors.

 

[wasp]

Well what are we waiting for?

Let's have a referendum.

Just a simple Yes or No.

Two weeks of voting. Polling booth prominently displayed. Vendors excepted of course.

What about people like dbpheonix and rhody trader? Both written books and thus vendors but unless you bothered to look you'd never know, they don't exactly stuff it down your throat. Maybe vendors should be separated into groups here as I think the site would be worse of without those members.

 

[Crap Buddist]

The risk when people sharing their trades is that some might be persuaded into not taking a trade or taking a trade they'd otherwise wouldn't have made. It's easy to become influenced by other people. Comments from other traders shouldn't affect your own decisions, after all you know what you are looking for and what anybody else is looking for or at might be something completely different.

yes see your point but a trader should have the nonce to accept that people may be calling long short, they should be able to differentiate, first lesson maybe, or to know that ok I'll listen in, but to act without knowing ? well, some say that aint needed in this game. ! Maybe trade2win should clarify a policy, no calls allowed ? for whatever reason is deemed .

Anyway this is how ive played it last 24 and its a essentially a flat day !

 

[dbphoenix]

What about people like dbpheonix and rhody trader? Both written books and thus vendors but unless you bothered to look you'd never know, they don't exactly stuff it down your throat. Maybe vendors should be separated into groups here as I think the site would be worse of without those members.

Actually, it never would have come up if it hadn't been for He Who Shall Not Be Named. And John probably wouldn't have to sport an icon if I didn't. And I don't recall ever mentioning it until HWSNBN made such a big deal of it.

On the other hand, getting into exceptions would be a nightmare.

 

[dbphoenix]

yeah understand, but if people are following a market and someone says "looks like a bottoms going in" thats normal chin wag, someone following might be able to think bottom ? hmmm damn i was gonna sell that, or yah thinking of going long meself. Otherwise this board may aswell be silent and discuss nothing if no one trusts anyone.

Are you talking about vendors or other members?

 

[Crap Buddist]

Are you talking about vendors or other members?

hmmm, everyone I think DB. But yeah see a retailers moral point too, I'd like to think vendors would be sport enough to call what they are seeing, I mean its in their own interests.

Maybe the average vendor doesn'r care much for the product they sell, but I do not know how the industry can protect end users too much when its welcomed . Yup there is a big block, is or does the vendor care at all, at any level. And what should T2W do ?

seperate section down the board, vendors forum, i think, traders forum up front, top.

 

[tencorp]

Isn't it funny how when you call a vendor out they all hide?

no one is hiding dante. i am a systems vendor myself and very confident in its performance. with just a few minutes work each night my clients can achieve incredible rewards. i use a moving average system but its black box. still if you want to pit yourself against me then i will give my signals in realtime as long as you do too and we will see who comes out on top.

 

[dbphoenix]

no one is hiding dante. i am a systems vendor myself and very confident in its performance. with just a few minutes work each night my clients can achieve incredible rewards. i use a moving average system but its black box. still if you want to pit yourself against me then i will give my signals in realtime as long as you do too and we will see who comes out on top.

Black box. No trading experience. Do you take Visa?

 

[Crap Buddist]

No smokin in ere chief......

Just had a topical thought which may be appropriate.

in the UK its being suggested that cigarette retailers are to perhaps hide fags under the counter out of any view to discourage youngsters from being tempted. Maybe this is timely for the treatment of vendors.

Seperation ,diff forum,including, and have their own new posts section way down normal trading posts.

So one would see, new posts T2W, then below it, commercial vendors new posts. this will help segregate a bit better.

Anyway looks like thats whats coming in the fag industry in the UK, silly sods, on hearing it I thought, just ban smoking,period and have done with it... !

 

[firewalker99]

Just had a topical thought which may be appropriate.

in the UK its being suggested that cigarette retailers are to perhaps hide fags under the counter out of any view to discourage youngsters from being tempted. Maybe this is timely for the treatment of vendors.

Seperation ,diff forum,including, and have their own new posts section way down normal trading posts.

So one would see, new posts T2W, then below it, commercial vendors new posts. this will help segregate a bit better.

Anyway looks like thats whats coming in the fag industry in the UK, silly sods, on hearing it I thought, just ban smoking,period and have done with it... !

Actually, that has been suggested and discussed two weeks ago here (starting post #76):
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/t2w-feedback/29372-vendors-2.html

I hope the fact that another thread has been initiated on this topic emphasizes the importance. Time for some action then, me thinks...

 

[rols]

What about people like dbpheonix and rhody trader? Both written books and thus vendors but unless you bothered to look you'd never know, they don't exactly stuff it down your throat. Maybe vendors should be separated into groups here as I think the site would be worse of without those members.

Simple.

Once the referendum begins and if the answer is no to Vendors then no new Vendors may join from that time.

With respect DB and rhodytrader are not trying to cash in the aspirations of the weak, needy and plain stupid.

I'm sure they are more interested in preserving the intrinsically good nature of this site then hanging onto their Vendor tags.

Otherwise I suspect they will be a mass exodus over to TLab.

This is a fairly new site, yet to be tainted by the corruption of hawkers and miscreantes, and has a very respectful proportion of posts where traders are discussing trading.
Now there's a thing!

T2W has a unique sense of fun and humour (or used to have) and that's why some of us are still trying to save its soul before it goes to the devil.

Now will everybody please quit trying to defend vendors. If anybody wants to buy a system or any purchase to do with trading a quick google will suffice.

We don't need them.