Vendor Performance Thread

Mathemagician said:
That said, I acknowledge that I am in an industry with a pretty dodgy reputation, and that reputation is well-deserved. It's really been an uphill battle as a result. I would be very interested in helping to develop a sort of a "due diligence questionnaire" to help protect clients from unscrupulous vendors. I think this would accomplish the goal of this thread if done properly and would be an invaluable resource. What do you think?

jj
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Sounds like a great idea IMO.
 
Mathemagician said:
td, I agree with you completely with one exception. I'm pretty sure you overestimate the increase in sales due to posting calls/results.
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Hi Mathemagician,

The other thing I thought I would mention is that many vendors rely on the fact that most newbies don't realise that making money has less to do with the system and more to do with the individuals psychology.

Poor psychology can, as we all know, cause a trader to lose consistently even whilst trading a winning system.
 
Mathemagician said:
td, I agree with you completely with one exception. I'm pretty sure you overestimate the increase in sales due to posting calls/results.

Otherwise, I think you hit the nail square on the head, though. It's all about expectations not being met. Clients tend to have unrealistic expectations and there are certain unscrupulous people in all walks of life who feed into/off that. I would say that if anyone promised you X amount per week/month/year not only are they lying/ignorant in the first place (real results are too random to make such statements) but they're likely in violation of regulations. I know the CFTC specifically forbids this in the US.

Aside: Many vendors will tell you they are exempt from registration with the CFTC, but this is not true either. Those providing any form of trading advice to US persons involving futures including system vendors are required to register with the CFTC and with the NFA as a non-member CTA. What is the motivation for avoiding regulation anyway? The total cost is $100/year and if folks are making what they say it is laughable to try to use avoiding this cost as justification for anything.

That said, I acknowledge that I am in an industry with a pretty dodgy reputation, and that reputation is well-deserved. It's really been an uphill battle as a result. I would be very interested in helping to develop a sort of a "due diligence questionnaire" to help protect clients from unscrupulous vendors. I think this would accomplish the goal of this thread if done properly and would be an invaluable resource. What do you think?

jj
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You may know little about math, but nothing about Markets.

Futures are not Spot, no one regulates Spot, because spot is actuall cash and people can't be forced or coerced into forcible regulation of plain cash savings.


I'm so tired of hearing this argument.< It''s simple, why do you think it's un-regulated.<It's illegal to regulate cash.

Screw the CFTC, NFA there a buch of criminals that are trying to extort money for the world.< Completely out of there jurisdiction.

Absolutely had those guys (n) *******s.
 
oilfxpro said:
Hi

I have run journals here for many months.I do not sell anything.I develop expert advisors for my own use

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/trading-journals/27207-oil-trading-oilfxpro-4.html

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/tra...ilfxpro-better-expert-advisor-euro-usd-3.html


OILFXPRO
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Zupcon knows you don't put real money. I know you don't put real money. The fact of the matter is, you don't know what it is that you are doing. All that is required is that you give an impression that you know what you are doing, and that is what you are doing . . .

Same for most system vendors.

NT, how can vendors effectively verify themselves if their system is probabilistic? Probabilistic verification is never total verification for the following reasons:

1) a flawed system could have good results over the period of testing time, but blow the account eventually
2) a "good" system could have a losing run when tested and this gives the vendor a bad reputation
3) difference between long term and short term behaviour is very subtle to say the least

and seeing that most are selling indicators and other such mechanical systems, it lead me to speculate that all systems sold by vendors are probabilistic, and therefore it introduces this problem.
 
dbphoenix said:
At least now I Know where the "advisors" are coming from, and it's much easier to understand why the site continues down this particular path.
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It would be wrong concluding something based upon what wasp or I said. After all, no one said there's always a consensus amongst us.

If anyone feels their comments or suggestions aren't properly translated or represented by those of the advisors, he or she is always free to step forward and join the "advisors", or open up new feedback threads.
 
Try equating this, vendors make up a fraction of people registered here.

say there were 90 vendors (which there is not, maybe 20), this only makes up only 0.02% are vendors.

The problem is everyone is lazy and ignorant, they don't care about trading, they want a hand out.(n)
 
firewalker99 said:
If anyone feels their comments or suggestions aren't properly translated or represented by those of the advisors, he or she is always free to step forward and join the "advisors", or open up new feedback threads.
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What's the point of joining the "advisors"? And feedback threads have the net effect of writing the suggestion down on a piece of paper and dropping it down a well.

If anyone has anything to say, send Paul a PM.
 
dbphoenix said:
What's the point of joining the "advisors"? And feedback threads have the net effect of writing the suggestion down on a piece of paper and dropping it down a well.

If anyone has anything to say, send Paul a PM.
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I think that's a bit harsh on Paul. Yes, some suggestions have taken considerable time before they become implemented... I certainly won't deny that, having experienced it myself :confused:. But the feedback threads are being viewed and discussed, they are certainly not being ignored.
 
It's not that hard too close the explorer window, about 10 times a day I come to the conclusion that everyone on here is careless, lazy and a complete waste of time.

* I then close T2W
 
Since nothing new is being said here and the same old bone is being chewed once again, I suggest that the site adopt the position of some other similar sites and ask the registered vendors either to pay up for the privilege of posting/advertising there or take a hike.

I'm sure this suggestion will be implemented forthwith. :)
 
I'm fully committed to doing everything in my power to improve the quality of posting on these forums. I'll comment specifically on what's been mentioned on this thread later today (as am having to pop out in a min).

I think everyone would agree we need more open communication, but also concrete action points and a timetable for implementing them, that's why I think a weekly chat session between members, advisors, staff and myself - would be an excellent idea. Basically we'd set up a realtime room either on the website (probably) or IRC, and we can have an open discussion. We can have the first session sometime this week.
 
dbphoenix said:
Since nothing new is being said here and the same old bone is being chewed once again, I suggest that the site adopt the position of some other similar sites and ask the registered vendors either to pay up for the privilege of posting/advertising there or take a hike.

I'm sure this suggestion will be implemented forthwith. :)
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Ahh but not every vendor is here to sell systems. Some just happen to have a book :cheesy: and are extremely helpful for free, or others run a single live thread and leave it to the punter. Depth trade for example posts his trades live, has one thread and if newbies are interested, they can see his performance and decide for themselves. All seems fair and above board. If only all could and would keep to the same.
 
wasp said:
Whilst the thread I have started may not appeal directly to what NT requires, there is nothing stopping him, or anyone else for that matter, starting a thread about just what interests them and they classify as relevant and important trading discussion.
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Wasp,

I started a thread which appealed to what I require which is vendors must substantiate their claims ie/this thread. I haven't interfered with your thread, you do what you want. If threads which make improper claims are ignored by more experienced traders it would be interpreted as tacit approval of those claims and they will continue making them completely unchallenged.
 
new_trader said:
Wasp,

I started a thread which appealed to what I require which is vendors must substantiate their claims ie/this thread. I haven't interfered with your thread, you do what you want. If threads which make improper claims are ignored by more experienced traders it would be interpreted as tacit approval of those claims and they will continue making them.
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and I agreed with you in that the context of the thread is a good idea and should be implemented.
 
Let the vendors fight it out, let's see who is the best and lands on top.

Surely we would rather know who is ultimately the best, then parade around in a 'safe', 'controlled' enviroment.


This place is about making money and finding out who is the best.
 
wasp said:
Ahh but not every vendor is here to sell systems. Some just happen to have a book :cheesy: and are extremely helpful for free, or others run a single live thread and leave it to the punter. Depth trade for example posts his trades live, has one thread and if newbies are interested, they can see his performance and decide for themselves. All seems fair and above board. If only all could and would keep to the same.
Click to expand...

Whether the vendor is out to sell systems or not is beside the point. If he has nothing to sell, he's not a vendor. If he's selling something but never mentions it, he's not a vendor. As for posting trades, who cares unless at minimum some reason is given for taking the trade and some explanation is provided for the management? If the reader is for some reason impressed, he can then contact the vendor and make his own arrangements. Either way, the vendor pays. I'm sure that those vendors who do pay must feel like suckers as a result of the free ride that so many vendors get on these pages.

And as to the "live trade" thing, anyone who believes that any trade posted on a message board is live is being extremely naive.
 
wasp said:
Ahh but not every vendor is here to sell systems. Some just happen to have a book :cheesy: and are extremely helpful for free, or others run a single live thread and leave it to the punter. Depth trade for example posts his trades live, has one thread and if newbies are interested, they can see his performance and decide for themselves. All seems fair and above board. If only all could and would keep to the same.
Click to expand...

Wasp

Is it a good idea?If somebody has 10 free systems to post ,how can they mix up systems and jumble them up in one thread?

What do I do to the 10 new FOREX systems I was planning to post on this forum?.All of them are free AND WORTH DISCUSSING

oilfxpro
 
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