Lord Flashearts Rogue Traders and Watchdog Thread

[arabianights]

I get yer point now.

I would say book writers are qualitatively different to signal sellers/chat room vendors* and the like. the major difference is that is they're selling a story... not trading techniques. Big difference once you get it.

Also, with soros specifically, you need a background in both trading and philosophy to get the guy... he's a philosopher really. Which I personally love as I consider myself a philosopher as well. But anyway reflexivity, for all the tautology inherent, is genuinely worth studying.

P.S. He replies to emails.

* I still feeling daft about this cause of my sig, so to reiterate my chatroom free and for lulz, not to make any money and if you're not in fixed income it probably counter productive for ya

 

[kimo'sabby]

I get yer point now.

I would say book writers are qualitatively different to signal sellers/chat room vendors* and the like. the major difference is that is they're selling a story... not trading techniques. Big difference once you get it.

Also, with soros specifically, you need a background in both trading and philosophy to get the guy... he's a philosopher really. Which I personally love as I consider myself a philosopher as well. But anyway reflexivity, for all the tautology inherent, is genuinely worth studying.

P.S. He replies to emails.

* I still feeling daft about this cause of my sig, so to reiterate my chatroom free and for lulz, not to make any money and if you're not in fixed income it probably counter productive for ya

F*ck me mate, i hope your not in till monday....you're f*ckin off your head. I luv it.

 

[Jason101]

lmao you can't post taht without elaborating

I up for guess the paediatrician tho...

Really, you are probably quite a bit more sober than I am tonight.

:drunk:After a lot of grappa tonight I thought -


1.Huntly in all the papers at the time (Jacko, Mr Spread betting and Wasp in a lot of current threads)

2.Mob mentality out for revenge (especially by people who thought The Expert was, before being banned as a scammer)

Followed the irony of gunning for a paediatrician who’s raison d'etre was to help kids,

This was not about paedos it was about the stupidity of mob mentality, individuals bolstering each other up looking for justice in the wrong place.

 

[Jason101]

Really, you are probably quite a bit more sober than I am tonight.

Just read your last post, can I change my mind!!

 

[wackypete2]

I'll have what you guys are drinking!

Peter

 

[kimo'sabby]

I'll have what you guys are drinking!

Peter

Dr Pepper, f*cks us brits up, it's why Blair went into Iraq. Full of the Pepper.

 

[kimo'sabby]

Just read your last post, can I change my mind!!

 

[DionysusToast]

Nick Bollettieri is one of the best tennis coaches there is.

but who is he? he's never won wimbledon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Bollettieri

by analogy if you have the potential to be a good trader then a good mentor will bring that out? But if you don't have the potential then nothing will help?

with Borg his coach told him not to change his 2 handed backhand style when other coaches would have. So the function of a coach is to develop you and your style and not to mess with innate success?

so a trader trades the market. a coach deals with the person. 2 different skill sets.

so maybe a better question for a coach is not what their trading is like but how many great traders have they made?

This analogy is rather silly.

We are talking about people that can't trade trying to teach people to trade.

Are you saying that Nick Bollettieri can't actually play tennis ?

 

[JahDave]

None of them can obviously trade, if they need to write a book to make any money.
What about that bar steward George Soros, he is on the gravy train with books and lectures, raking it in.

I know I'm in the minority here, but maybe some traders want to help others succeed after they make more money than they can ever spend...

 

[DionysusToast]

I know I'm in the minority here, but maybe some traders want to help others succeed after they make more money than they can ever spend...

And charge 400 quid a day for it ?

I know a hedge fund trader that encourages his employees to piggy back his trades and to get into trading under his supervision. He's had a few employees leave and go full time.

Guess what he charges for this privilege?

 

[JahDave]

And charge 400 quid a day for it ?

I know a hedge fund trader that encourages his employees to piggy back his trades and to get into trading under his supervision. He's had a few employees leave and go full time.

Guess what he charges for this privilege?

I'm not talking about those 400 quid a day guys and gals, I'm talking about the $20 book guys.........Don't think I'm sticking up for the 90+ percent of scammers out there

 

[Black Swan]

imo a trainer needs no proof other than that they produce successful traders. if others want more qualifications etc then that is their preconditions.


i think its quite right to point out the system sellers and subscriptionists just out to make money. i just raised the point that practice gets lumped with coaching which is not the same thing.

Hi, don't get me wrong I think the point you raised is a very insightful observation and has really added to the debate on this thread, there are guys out there such as Brett Steenbarger who talk the talk and can walk (a bit) and I should imagine that huge firms could spend fortunes on methods to get their top guys heads in the right place...but for a coach to have the nec. ammunition and be in the (financial) reach of the average (failing) day trader? Can't see it myself...he'd be a real one off...

As an exercise what quals. and track record would you reckon a highly respected *trader coach* would need, other than being an excellent trader with a track record? What qualities would we be looking for, other than the obvious bullet-proof proof he'd done it succesfully for a number of years?

 

[barjon]

mmm, in an earlier life, many years ago, I managed a gang of guys and gals whose business was to catch drug smugglers at one of our major airports.

A few of them were red-hot at it and consistently picked out the naughties from the tide of passengers that went past them. Ask them how they did it and they didn't know "Just fancied him" was the general response. Yes, they had a few "mechanical" clues - which could be used to give learners a start - but it was mostly about subconscious "feel" and you couldn't teach that in a classroom.

So the best training route was to attach people to these "experts" and get them to talk their thoughts - mentoring if you like. Only a few of the "experts" were any good at this and the best were the one's who had excellent communication skills, patience and a strong desire to develop their trainee.

Parallels with trading? Well if you believe that top trading is more about having a feel for your market than about mechanical rules then mentoring from an expert is the way to go. If you think it's more about mechanical rules, then as long as it's explained properly anyone can teach it and you don't have to be an expert to do it.

my two pennorth anyway

jon

 

[Jason101]

I know I'm in the minority here, but maybe some traders want to help others succeed after they make more money than they can ever spend...

I hope you realise I was being sarcastic.:|

 

[Shakone]

This analogy is rather silly.

We are talking about people that can't trade trying to teach people to trade.

Are you saying that Nick Bollettieri can't actually play tennis ?

Oh really? Well anyone can trade, it's easy enough to open an account, and click buttons and make trades. Then you are trading. Anyone can trade. Ahhh, but then maybe you mean 'trade' with skill or to get paid for your trading? Well then you are attaching a success element to the game.

Bollettieri could play a game of tennis, but then everybody with arms can. Does Bollettieri make his living from playing tennis? No. Does he get paid for playing tennis? Probably again no. Therefore the analogy holds.

 

[DionysusToast]

A love letter

The film poses the same question you asked in your new thread. That's why I asked if you had seen it.

Why am I not on the board?

Ultimately, like any good commodity: it doesn't need a vendor to sell it. It sells itself.

Which is why I find it rather disappointing that ironically, the outcome of the thread so far seems to be that I am being inundated with PMs from people asking me if they can join the room. Now I can't easily tell who has joined the room because its been recommended as something useful and who is joining because they know it exists.

Shame.

Any way, I have no interest in defending myself and am refusing to allow any of my subscribers to defend me either.

We find the whole thing rather amusing

Nothing is black and white in life, Dion. One of my biggest detractors on T2W has been a paying subscriber since the service inception.

Tom

Have you seen the film Rounders?

Nope - does it have some bearing on reality?

Anyway - why aren't you on the board - come on & take your flogging ! ;-)

LOL @ "Refusing to let my subscribers"....

 

[DionysusToast]

Oh really? Well anyone can trade, it's easy enough to open an account, and click buttons and make trades. Then you are trading. Anyone can trade. Ahhh, but then maybe you mean 'trade' with skill or to get paid for your trading? Well then you are attaching a success element to the game.

Bollettieri could play a game of tennis, but then everybody with arms can. Does Bollettieri make his living from playing tennis? No. Does he get paid for playing tennis? Probably again no. Therefore the analogy holds.

So let me get this right.

You think that it's OK for someone that cannot trade profitably to teach others how to trade profitably.

What exactly would they teach them ? Would it be OK to go to a website, pick up a lot of stuff from there and teach that ?

Seriously - what on earth could someone that is not profitable teach ? The best they could hope to impart is how to be a net loser because that is all they know.

I know a lot of people hope that trading will be a mechanical process. You have a ruleset and follow it to the letter to make money. If that was the case, then I guess any old fool could teach the ruleset - but then again, any old fool would be profitable with that ruleset.

If you are profitable, it means you understand enough of the factors affecting the market. It means you understand nuance and are able to interpret similar situations and weigh them up to make a trade. If you are not profitable, it means you still don't understand what it takes to turn a profit and you would simply not be able to teach someone else the skills to make a profit.

Even someone that IS profitable will not have a 100% success rate in their students. What chance has someone that isn't profitable got?

 

[Shakone]

Dionysus I am saying the analogy was just fine. It's not silly at all. Just as you can have an excellent football manager who never played professional football or was a failed professional footballer. The management/coaching part is a different skill set. I'm not suggesting it is better than having a successful trader mentoring you, but I'm open to the possibility that a failed trader could be helpful. Probably most of the books I've read are from failed traders, but I've still learned a few things from some of them.

What can a failed trader teach you? Well it depends on the person. In Trader Dante's case he was initially (on this site) teaching price action, pin bars and support. These things were coming from what he had learnt from James16, and go back to Pring,or maybe even before that. Even if trader dante failed with them, these concepts may well be from successful traders. Teaching second hand success if you will.

Maybe they can teach you why they failed/what didn't work. Maybe they can teach you support and resistance, money management, where the market is likely to turn. Perhaps they are great at predicting where the market will turn, but just can't trade with discipline and so failed as a trader.

 

[tomorton]

This is not going to go anywhere.

A physics teacher (who would be unemployable as a physicist) can teach the student the theory, rules and mechanics of physics. The student could go on to a Nobel prize.

A driving instructor (who would be very employable as a driver) can teach the student the theory, rules and mechanics of driving. The student could go on to be a complete menace to themselves and every other road user.

What have we proven about trainers? Nothing.

 

[barjon]

..................If you are profitable, it means you understand enough of the factors affecting the market. It means you understand nuance and are able to interpret similar situations and weigh them up to make a trade. .............

DT

I suppose it's possible that you could have someone who can do all that, but who does not have the mental strength to trade that knowledge and understanding successfully. Bit like a golfer who has all the shots but who crumbles under the pressure of leading and never wins a tournament.

By the same token, it's possible that a non-trader could tease out from you precisely how and why you made your trading decisions if his "de-briefing" skills were top-notch. If he was a good communicator he could pass that on to a student to maybe better effect than you could if you were a poor communicator.

jon