what is it with you guys?

First day looking at this forum - saw an ad in traders magazine ;-)

Simple question to start with - why are you guys so against anyone that sells systems and trading advice?

We are all in this thing to make money one way or another and the guys selling systems do it to make more.

All i hear on these forums is 'so why sell it? you must be making enough from your trades'

well, here's a question in return to that one - why does bill gates bother making new software? - he's still got 30bn left so why does he want to make software for more money?

The simple answer is that ALL of us on here are into making money - and just cos you make it one way doesnt mean that you shouldnt make it another way.

gosh, come on guys - all new starters in this business need information and will most often than not profit from that information - whats wrong with selling it to them?

There - i like to spark some spirited debate ;-)
 

neil

Legendary member
5,167 747
Feed Me

Maybe if we wanted a site selling Holy grails we would log onto that.

Since we don't - we prefer it here.

If you read the threads you would note that most purveyors of financial freedom have been exposed as fakes.

The few course providors we have on site do not sell promises.

This site is to help one another - not to take advertising for the benefit of the site owners to the detriment of members of that same site.

You could always go to Elitetrader.com - lots of snakeoil salesmen reside there under the pretence of helping one to be a better trader, and write articles to that effect. Problem is, you have to pay for the last few paragraphs that reveal "the system."

By which I mean that Elite trader is a good site but, in my opinion, you have to spend a lot of time sorting genuine articles from sales pitches.

A final point that seems to evade many seekers of instant wealth - it wont happen with the purchase of a "method" or "system." Time and again people on this site repeatedly point out to new comers that you must spend time reading the FREE material on various sites - use the "search" facility here.

You then practice until you find a style and timeframe that suits you. Paper trade if you like. But trading for real introduces a lot of new mental challenges. This is when you realise that trading success is more psychological than "system" orientated.

I emphasise - you will not buy success. It takes time,effort, practice, research, and dedication. Remember, it's a truism that if heavenly intervention came down and visited upon 100 traders a sure win system, a goodly proportion of them would still lose money.

So don't sit there expecting to be spoon fed a "winning method." It wont happen - ever.

Therefore you have to get off your butt and sweat at it - like we all did and will continue to do.

Here endeth the lesson.

Just my humble opinion.

And welcome and good luck in your endeavours. :D
 
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Bigbusiness

Experienced member
1,408 23
This looks like another one of those subtle advertising threads. I have nothing against advertising providing the advert is paid for and does not make crazy claims.


Edit:-

The advert has now been taken out of soultrader's signature so ignore the above
 
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in reply to your points

yes, there is a lot of free info out there - good point - how much of that is in plain english though - a simple 'how to' guide?

I understand your point on unabated advertising, that isnt what my question asked - it's just that you are all so ANTI against the people that provide such stuff

tell me one successful trader on here that hasnt at one time or another purchased say a book. - from that book they have extracted information and used it to their advantage - whats wrong with that?

in point 4 you say 'if you want to advertise etc etc' - I dont, im coming on here for the same reasons you are - to learn and make hopefully better trades - the fact the my signature carries a link is that i do that everywhere, wether in any of my online businesses or on any forums - im not coming here to advertise - just to learn the same as you.

The difference is that i am willing to pay for that information if needs be and respect those who write it.

as for the earlier post on 'the holy grail' - i wont sink to that - everyone knows it doesnt exist. (or should do by now)
 

kent

Junior member
42 0
Neil

Agree!!


Kent
 

Mr Chill

Active member
173 2
Soultrader

Yes i agree with you i don't understand their problem,one guy ik came up with a good system had his own website and everything,a lot of people were following the trades and it was nothing but praise then when he put a small subscription charge on it £25 everyone went mad it was like a witch hunt ,all of the sudden he was a con man and try as they could they could not prove the system dose not work ,see thread index king . :eek:
 
I read through that post and a few others.

I didnt see the actual system cos i got bored with all the moaning minnies ranting on about the guy making money - boo hiis - you cant make money mate - only talk about it!

But here's another thing - someone mentioned above that a 'system' doesnt work - correct me if im wrong, but isnt it universally accepted that all traders have to have a system of entry and exit to become successful?

and a system is just that - enter when x says so and exit when y appears. - thats the simplest system of all and works everytime.

The system that I use for myself is pure and simple - the problem that most trades have when losing all the time is that they have NO SYSTEM.

Systems take time to backtest and virtual test and to be fair all systems need tweaking now and again to take note of market changes - the market never produces the same results each time and looking at a market one year ago a tweak on your system is needed.

In january this year i had never placed a trade in my life, i came accross a system of trading which i bought and i liked it so much that i went into partnership with the author to market the system for him - that's what i do - im a good marketeer. I have used the system and have made some money, however i dont use that 'system' anymore - why?, because ive progressed as a trader does.

I dont even day trade anymore - I just cant do it - it doesnt work with my personality and i just cant be doing with seat of the pants trading. Im not saying it's not for other people cos plenty love it - but as we all know we are all different and swing works for me.

Ps, im not a snakeoil salesman (gotta be a yank that said that) but if you want me to market some for you im happy to oblige ;-)
 

darrren

Member
98 0
Soultrader

I agree with you. In fact, I raised the same point not long ago.

This was what I said:


As for the number of statements I have read along the lines of rubbishing any system that is not the result of your own research etc, I would say that is clearly an issue on which EVERYONE would forsake their principals. EG. I have a system that will guarantee a cash return of £1million in 4 weeks but you have to pay me a tenner first. NO ONE on this planet would stick to their principles on not paying for that advice. They would be at the front of the queue to hand over their tenner.

We all have strong principals, but we all have a price for breaking them - we just never get tested. Ipso facto - I rubbish people paying for tips but, hang on, a tenner for a million quid in 4 weeks, s*d my principles and my own trading system, here's my tenner!


Do you know what - NO ONE posted back and said they would refuse such an offer!
In fact no one posted back at all in reply. I assume they all quietly reflected on their principles or were rushing around looking for a tenner.

Winston Churchill famously asked Lady Astor in Parliament whether she would prostitute herself for £1 -answer No. £100 - answer NO. £1000 - answer No. £1 million - she paused and quick as a flash Churchill replied – SO WE HAVE ESTABLISHED YOU WOULD CONSIDER PROSTITUTING YOURSELF, ALL WE NEED TO DO IS ESTABLISH THE PRICE!
 

neil

Legendary member
5,167 747
But here's another thing - someone mentioned above that "a 'system' doesnt work - correct me if im wrong, but isnt it universally accepted that all traders have to have a system of entry and exit to become successful."

Judging by your above statement we can assume you are not a trader but get your money from peddling "systems" and you are here looking for Fools to part with their money?

Read this site again - there are many entry/exit "systems" and they are all FREE.
 
Neil, can you read?

just wondering cos you obviously didnt read my whole post

Yes, i trade as part of my income, i dont make my income from 'peddling' systems as you call it, my income comes from many sources, not that its any of your business.

Im self employed, have been for years - My trading account is not what i rely on for living - its my future pot - every £1 i win by trading is another £1 for my next trade - and ill keep doing that until there is enough money in there to retire.

I think it's quite foolish to make trading your main income - scared money never wins is the old saying and how can you remain emotionally detached when your whole living depends on it?

Besides that I have an entrepeneurs mind and whats more for those of you who are narrow minded IM PROUD OF IT

i get bored doing the same thing week in week out - ive never held a job for more than three years cos i get so bored - even my businesses are sold off when i get bored with them.

I dont treat trading as a business but more of 'fun' - so fartrading my swing system ive made a positive 1200+ points out of 1600 traded so 400 losing points and 1200 wining - Im happy at that and ill be happy that it continues - as fun!!

You say that on the site there are many entry exit systems - do they work? and if they do then please tell me where they are so everyone can look and make money instead of losing it (which you will note they never talk about lol)

you ask if i am looking for 'fools' to part with their money - no im not - im a trader as mentioned abve looking to share peoplkes experiences the same as everyone else on here - I havent tried to sell anyone anything and if i did i certainly wouldnt want any 'fools' as you refer to them
 
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neil

Legendary member
5,167 747
Holy Grails For sale

HMMM,

I've rattled your cage.

I've said all I want to say. What others decide is a decision for them alone.

Bother - I've used up my two sentences and more, so I will leave you to your marketing

Well good luck with whatever you do. :cheesy:
 
Its not a matter of rattling cages neil and you havent

Im always open to a spirited debate about anything.

maybe you would be kind enough to let us know your trading record and if it's successful then please tell us the way you trade, i love trying new methods ;-)

Of course you must share this information for free cos asking us to pay for someones own knowledge is immoral isnt it?

so, in the spirit of free love and sharing lets have some fun
 

Bigbusiness

Experienced member
1,408 23
Soultrader,

At least you have removed the advert from your signature. Who would want to share anything with you? You come over as a bit aggressive in your posts and I don't think many people will want to debate with you when all you are doing is having a dig.

Perhaps you should find somewhere else for your ranting. ADVFN seems to attract your sort.
 
Im sorry BB, didnt mean to come over like that but we saggitarians are like that sometimes ;-)

However i do think its a bit unfair to label me 'your sort' after only a few posts - i will be contributing to the forums as best i can.

What annoys me is that so many people have closed minds to others making money if they dont themselves - after all we all live in a capitalist world (most of the time) and i see nothing wrong in paying for information - weve all done it all our lives

oh dear - here i go again ;-)

anyway - we'll see - please give time before you make judgements - bit like we have to when trading ;-)
 

neil

Legendary member
5,167 747
Thought For The day

Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps. --- Emo Philips

:cheesy:
 
 
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