what is it with you guys?

First day looking at this forum - saw an ad in traders magazine ;-)

Simple question to start with - why are you guys so against anyone that sells systems and trading advice?

We are all in this thing to make money one way or another and the guys selling systems do it to make more.

All i hear on these forums is 'so why sell it? you must be making enough from your trades'

well, here's a question in return to that one - why does bill gates bother making new software? - he's still got 30bn left so why does he want to make software for more money?

The simple answer is that ALL of us on here are into making money - and just cos you make it one way doesnt mean that you shouldnt make it another way.

gosh, come on guys - all new starters in this business need information and will most often than not profit from that information - whats wrong with selling it to them?

There - i like to spark some spirited debate ;-)
Feed Me

Maybe if we wanted a site selling Holy grails we would log onto that.

Since we don't - we prefer it here.

If you read the threads you would note that most purveyors of financial freedom have been exposed as fakes.

The few course providors we have on site do not sell promises.

This site is to help one another - not to take advertising for the benefit of the site owners to the detriment of members of that same site.

You could always go to Elitetrader.com - lots of snakeoil salesmen reside there under the pretence of helping one to be a better trader, and write articles to that effect. Problem is, you have to pay for the last few paragraphs that reveal "the system."

By which I mean that Elite trader is a good site but, in my opinion, you have to spend a lot of time sorting genuine articles from sales pitches.

A final point that seems to evade many seekers of instant wealth - it wont happen with the purchase of a "method" or "system." Time and again people on this site repeatedly point out to new comers that you must spend time reading the FREE material on various sites - use the "search" facility here.

You then practice until you find a style and timeframe that suits you. Paper trade if you like. But trading for real introduces a lot of new mental challenges. This is when you realise that trading success is more psychological than "system" orientated.

I emphasise - you will not buy success. It takes time,effort, practice, research, and dedication. Remember, it's a truism that if heavenly intervention came down and visited upon 100 traders a sure win system, a goodly proportion of them would still lose money.

So don't sit there expecting to be spoon fed a "winning method." It wont happen - ever.

Therefore you have to get off your butt and sweat at it - like we all did and will continue to do.

Here endeth the lesson.

Just my humble opinion.

And welcome and good luck in your endeavours. :D
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This looks like another one of those subtle advertising threads. I have nothing against advertising providing the advert is paid for and does not make crazy claims.


The advert has now been taken out of soultrader's signature so ignore the above
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in reply to your points

yes, there is a lot of free info out there - good point - how much of that is in plain english though - a simple 'how to' guide?

I understand your point on unabated advertising, that isnt what my question asked - it's just that you are all so ANTI against the people that provide such stuff

tell me one successful trader on here that hasnt at one time or another purchased say a book. - from that book they have extracted information and used it to their advantage - whats wrong with that?

in point 4 you say 'if you want to advertise etc etc' - I dont, im coming on here for the same reasons you are - to learn and make hopefully better trades - the fact the my signature carries a link is that i do that everywhere, wether in any of my online businesses or on any forums - im not coming here to advertise - just to learn the same as you.

The difference is that i am willing to pay for that information if needs be and respect those who write it.

as for the earlier post on 'the holy grail' - i wont sink to that - everyone knows it doesnt exist. (or should do by now)

Yes i agree with you i don't understand their problem,one guy ik came up with a good system had his own website and everything,a lot of people were following the trades and it was nothing but praise then when he put a small subscription charge on it £25 everyone went mad it was like a witch hunt ,all of the sudden he was a con man and try as they could they could not prove the system dose not work ,see thread index king . :eek:
I read through that post and a few others.

I didnt see the actual system cos i got bored with all the moaning minnies ranting on about the guy making money - boo hiis - you cant make money mate - only talk about it!

But here's another thing - someone mentioned above that a 'system' doesnt work - correct me if im wrong, but isnt it universally accepted that all traders have to have a system of entry and exit to become successful?

and a system is just that - enter when x says so and exit when y appears. - thats the simplest system of all and works everytime.

The system that I use for myself is pure and simple - the problem that most trades have when losing all the time is that they have NO SYSTEM.

Systems take time to backtest and virtual test and to be fair all systems need tweaking now and again to take note of market changes - the market never produces the same results each time and looking at a market one year ago a tweak on your system is needed.

In january this year i had never placed a trade in my life, i came accross a system of trading which i bought and i liked it so much that i went into partnership with the author to market the system for him - that's what i do - im a good marketeer. I have used the system and have made some money, however i dont use that 'system' anymore - why?, because ive progressed as a trader does.

I dont even day trade anymore - I just cant do it - it doesnt work with my personality and i just cant be doing with seat of the pants trading. Im not saying it's not for other people cos plenty love it - but as we all know we are all different and swing works for me.

Ps, im not a snakeoil salesman (gotta be a yank that said that) but if you want me to market some for you im happy to oblige ;-)

I agree with you. In fact, I raised the same point not long ago.

This was what I said:

As for the number of statements I have read along the lines of rubbishing any system that is not the result of your own research etc, I would say that is clearly an issue on which EVERYONE would forsake their principals. EG. I have a system that will guarantee a cash return of £1million in 4 weeks but you have to pay me a tenner first. NO ONE on this planet would stick to their principles on not paying for that advice. They would be at the front of the queue to hand over their tenner.

We all have strong principals, but we all have a price for breaking them - we just never get tested. Ipso facto - I rubbish people paying for tips but, hang on, a tenner for a million quid in 4 weeks, s*d my principles and my own trading system, here's my tenner!

Do you know what - NO ONE posted back and said they would refuse such an offer!
In fact no one posted back at all in reply. I assume they all quietly reflected on their principles or were rushing around looking for a tenner.

Winston Churchill famously asked Lady Astor in Parliament whether she would prostitute herself for £1 -answer No. £100 - answer NO. £1000 - answer No. £1 million - she paused and quick as a flash Churchill replied – SO WE HAVE ESTABLISHED YOU WOULD CONSIDER PROSTITUTING YOURSELF, ALL WE NEED TO DO IS ESTABLISH THE PRICE!
But here's another thing - someone mentioned above that "a 'system' doesnt work - correct me if im wrong, but isnt it universally accepted that all traders have to have a system of entry and exit to become successful."

Judging by your above statement we can assume you are not a trader but get your money from peddling "systems" and you are here looking for Fools to part with their money?

Read this site again - there are many entry/exit "systems" and they are all FREE.
Neil, can you read?

just wondering cos you obviously didnt read my whole post

Yes, i trade as part of my income, i dont make my income from 'peddling' systems as you call it, my income comes from many sources, not that its any of your business.

Im self employed, have been for years - My trading account is not what i rely on for living - its my future pot - every £1 i win by trading is another £1 for my next trade - and ill keep doing that until there is enough money in there to retire.

I think it's quite foolish to make trading your main income - scared money never wins is the old saying and how can you remain emotionally detached when your whole living depends on it?

Besides that I have an entrepeneurs mind and whats more for those of you who are narrow minded IM PROUD OF IT

i get bored doing the same thing week in week out - ive never held a job for more than three years cos i get so bored - even my businesses are sold off when i get bored with them.

I dont treat trading as a business but more of 'fun' - so fartrading my swing system ive made a positive 1200+ points out of 1600 traded so 400 losing points and 1200 wining - Im happy at that and ill be happy that it continues - as fun!!

You say that on the site there are many entry exit systems - do they work? and if they do then please tell me where they are so everyone can look and make money instead of losing it (which you will note they never talk about lol)

you ask if i am looking for 'fools' to part with their money - no im not - im a trader as mentioned abve looking to share peoplkes experiences the same as everyone else on here - I havent tried to sell anyone anything and if i did i certainly wouldnt want any 'fools' as you refer to them
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Holy Grails For sale


I've rattled your cage.

I've said all I want to say. What others decide is a decision for them alone.

Bother - I've used up my two sentences and more, so I will leave you to your marketing

Well good luck with whatever you do. :cheesy:
Its not a matter of rattling cages neil and you havent

Im always open to a spirited debate about anything.

maybe you would be kind enough to let us know your trading record and if it's successful then please tell us the way you trade, i love trying new methods ;-)

Of course you must share this information for free cos asking us to pay for someones own knowledge is immoral isnt it?

so, in the spirit of free love and sharing lets have some fun

At least you have removed the advert from your signature. Who would want to share anything with you? You come over as a bit aggressive in your posts and I don't think many people will want to debate with you when all you are doing is having a dig.

Perhaps you should find somewhere else for your ranting. ADVFN seems to attract your sort.
Im sorry BB, didnt mean to come over like that but we saggitarians are like that sometimes ;-)

However i do think its a bit unfair to label me 'your sort' after only a few posts - i will be contributing to the forums as best i can.

What annoys me is that so many people have closed minds to others making money if they dont themselves - after all we all live in a capitalist world (most of the time) and i see nothing wrong in paying for information - weve all done it all our lives

oh dear - here i go again ;-)

anyway - we'll see - please give time before you make judgements - bit like we have to when trading ;-)
Thought For The day

Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps. --- Emo Philips

Hi soultrader, i always enjoy hearing new trading ideas! I followed Indexking for a few months until he decided enuff was enuff as his following traders turned into gremlins at the sign of a small fee.
Nothing is free in this world, but im sure those same traders where up a good few hundred points by using the method of trading but still rubbished him wen he asked for a small donation.

Anyway Soultrader i would like to hear your system coz like you i like swing trading, my wife hates me day trading as it leaves me needing a grabbing for the viagra. lol

Nice 1


You seem to have made a judgement about T2W members in your first post so it is not strange that you should be judged so soon.

I have absoulutely no problem with people making money selling trading information. I only object when I think they have tried to get interest in an underhand way or when I feel they are being coservative with the facts about thier system to try and make it look better than it is. I also don't like some of the claims that make it sound like making money trading is easy, can be done by anyone and will lead to instant wealth.
its not surprising ive made that judgement is it really - there are stacks and stacks of posts moaning on with drivel about people selling courses.

the board advises people basically do anything, but dont pay whatever you do!!!

Im not sure than anyone on here is successful at all - if you were making the sort of money that is possible then none of you would be quibbling over someone charging a few quid for their system - no wonder the other guy left you all to it.

and im sorry if it upsets you BB - but trading when you have a good system and stick to it IS easy - there, ive said it.

Its a easy as falling of a log and its easy to make more money than doing anything else - you cant call this work and you cant call it hard. It can be done by anyone and although it doesnt lead to INSTANT wealth it's a lot quicker than working for a living i can tell you.

The people who sit there moaning and groaning about the market does this and the market does that dont have a frigging clue and dont have a system - if they do have a system then it loses them money and they then blame people like me for getting them interested in the first place.

There's nothing difficult about trading - whats the hard bit to control is between your ears (not a lot in some cases ill agree) - if you have a system that works and you follow it to the letter then how can you go wrong?

easy as falling off a log mate and ive proved it.

and with that - im off to enjoy a good weekend soul night in chesterfield - nothing like a night of great music to get you feeling good
if you have a system that works and you follow it to the letter then how can you go wrong?

There is an interesting thread about system longevity here:-


Some systems might work in most market conditions but the majority will have times when they just don't work. So if you want to system trade, it is probably best to have several on the go at the same time, then if one falters it wont hurt so much.

I have seen several 'systems' for sale that claim to make lots of points but some of them just don't work and some of them work at the moment but have no chance of working in the future.

So I don't think it is stupid to be cautious when someone comes along saying it is easy. It might be for you but that doesn't mean it will be for everyone. There were examples of people who were unable to follow a system in the index king thread. There are lots of reasons for this and it doesn't follow that you have to be intelligent to stick to a system. Sometimes not being able to work out what could go wrong would be a great advantage :)

Every Bulletin Board has a different personality. I have been a member of T2W for a few years (and I think it is one of the top BBs around) but I wouldn't dream of talking about 'systems' on it - the anti-systems crowd is just too hostile. Instead you just find other boards that are 'systems friendly' and talk about systems there.


And just to prove my point - I posted this and a moderator rated me down :cry:

thank you :D
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