Profit is profit is it not ? surley +10 / +15 is better than -10/-15
Good days & bad days as we all know come and go at least your were still +
Wallstreet1928 Analysis & live calls on FTSE,DAX,S&P...aimed to help New traders
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Profit is profit is it not ? surley +10 / +15 is better than -10/-15
Good days & bad days as we all know come and go at least your were still +
Da.DesiTrader
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Agreed. I always say opportunity loss is better than capital loss - any day. However, a drop like this just p***es the hell outta me. Especially when direction of my trade was right.
wallstreet1928
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Good evening to all , I can see everyone got a slice of the pie
well done to all
dr.blix
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i hear what you're saying matrader, but i sort of disagree.
you see, the way this works is you win and you lose. no way around that...
if you're averaging out hitting 1:1 risk reward, or just managing 10-20 pips a position, you've lost, as you will never make a profit.
that's why i view not being able to make maximum pips/pts (as was on offer on E$ today) as a big fail, because without being able to take these gifts, your trading will probably never be sustainable.
Da.DesiTrader
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dr.blix. I see it this way. If your strategy gives you 50.01 probability over the long run and risk/reward is 1:1.01
You are still in the money and profitable. Ofcourse extreme examples, and one def should try to maximise moves like that, but as long as your reward is more than 1.01 and your strategy is above 50.01, stick to the strategy and stay disciplined.
Sometimes after taking a loss or missing a move like that, I use to shift into revenge mode, which is not good.
just my 2 cents.
kaisen
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Absolutely correct in my opinion Dr B! Many traders will happily let their stops be hit but close out of winning positions too soon. This situation will be a losing situation over time.
The key is to reognise when you are wrong and get out and re-analyse.
Another thing to keep in mind is the need to look to pyramid up on winning positions. This helps with focusing on letting winning trades run as the focus is on where to add to the winning position rather than how long can i hold out before emotionally i need to close the position and be proved right by taking a profit.
I was away from the action when it call kicked off so although i traded well today i missed the easy pips.
I think for those who did not capitalise on the rather large move today and closed early, they should re-evaluate their decision for closing along with how they came by their target in the first place and learn from the whole event it rather than saying it was one of those things.
It is important to recognise when to hold and when to fold.
As WS always mentions it is important to understand what is driving any move so as to know when the move is over. This is done by analysing connected variables and seeing what the driver is and when things change.
Knowing when a move is becoming exhausted and about to reverse, understanding everything is the goal to aim for (thats understanding not predicting).
One thing I have learned time and again is that you cannot know for sure. Therefore you have to decide do you grab what you can? Or do you watch the move and maybe put a stop in profit and amend this with the move? The answer will depend on your level of skill but sometimes you have to say to yourself the pips I take are a relfection of my current skill level. Then you can work on that skill so you improve for next time.
Sometimes you will kick yourself that you should have taken the extra few pips. Sometimes you will close only to see the full monster move play out and that you could have secured many more pips than you did.
I always hear loss of opportunity is better than loss of capital. I think this can be misused or overly used. Absoultely risk and money management are key but we should not hide behind the phrase often as it will hold back our development. Really analysing what improvements could have been made or what next needs to be learned or developed in our trading skills is vital if we are serious about trading.
So for those how did well from todays move what percentage of the move did you secure and how?
For those who took only a fraction of todays move, what could you have done differently? If you dont know you need to find out as your long term success in trading depends on it!
I do not profess to have all the answers but hopefully by sharing this mindset, ideas and eachothers research we can all move forward much more quickly!
Any comments welcome as we are all hear to learn and move forward.
All the best
TZ Futures
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Update 19:18 GMT
Prepare for a further sell off before Wall Street closes shortly. Signals pointing south...so get your shorts on!
Prepare for a further sell off before Wall Street closes shortly. Signals pointing south...so get your shorts on!
kaisen
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Cheers buddy.
Have you come across "The Phantom of the Pits"? Well worth a read.
Let me know if you want the material posting.
ATB
Cheers buddy.
Have you come across "The Phantom of the Pits"? Well worth a read.
Let me know if you want the material posting.
ATB
I agree - this is a good post Kaisen & also with what Dr Blix & Desi have to say.
I honestly believe that there is no perfect solution out there or perfect way of trading.
Due to our very nature different thoughts / methods appeal to & work for each of us in different ways.
The main thing is that we hopefully learn from both our mistakes & success's & live to fight another day by building on them.
What works for me is to stick to my plan,identify the trade & take my profits(or loss )quickly leaving a bit in the tank for the next guy.
I have failed so many times going for the holy grail of trades.
A bird in the hand & all that......
By the way this is a great thread with a lot of wisdom & some good banter from the various contributers!
Thank you & keep up the great work all of you.
Matt
kaisen
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Hi Matt,
Thanks for the feedback. I agree everyone has to find their own style although like most things there are general building blocks people should be aware of, but from there, everyone has to find their own style which fits their pesonality and emotional makeup.
I also agree that taking profits is important and looking for that home run deal, although nice and satisfying, is not an everyday occurence or not as frequent as we would all like.
Good to have you on the forum my friend.
Hi Matt,
Thanks for the feedback. I agree everyone has to find their own style although like most things there are general building blocks people should be aware of, but from there, everyone has to find their own style which fits their pesonality and emotional makeup.
I also agree that taking profits is important and looking for that home run deal, although nice and satisfying, is not an everyday occurence or not as frequent as we would all like.
Good to have you on the forum my friend.
Thanks Kaisen & Dr Blix
good to have you contributing here on WS thread matt
k, back to business.
i've lost 20 pips on E$ trying to catch this falling knife.
i've now got 2 longs on @ 865 and 856...up 15 pips and looking to move one stop to BE
Looks good to me! -Id agree with your long from 865
dr.blix
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closed both @ 873 (which is just below a 50 % fib level i have @ 875 from the last leg of the fall on a H1 TF) for + 25 pips
the 875 fib level nicely ties in with a bearflag on the 10 TF too (another reason for closing my longs).
i might go long again (around 860) after the bearflag plays out, but i don't like overnight positions.
EDIT: although saying that if we stay in positive territory overnight i could see 940 at some point 2moro...this would ba a 50 % fib retracement on todays drop.
Last edited:
kaisen
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good to have you contributing here on WS thread matt
k, back to business.
i've lost 20 pips on E$ trying to catch this falling knife.
i've now got 2 longs on @ 865 and 856...up 15 pips and looking to move one stop to BE
Hey Dr B - I am currently long E$ from 14852 and i have moved my stop loss to 866 to secure 14 pips. Not sure how far this one is going so want to make sure i take some pips.
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16 trades since last Wednesday on FTSE100. only 3 losses and 13 winners. on a winning streak of 7.
I would recommend, start using daily S&Rs lines to help you decide where to take your profits when you enter your signals as S&Rs is what the market reacts to 80% of the time; 20% of the time is a reversal moves.
Do not over-trade or up your stake to recover your losses - Theres always tomorrow. Take a breather.
I would recommend, start using daily S&Rs lines to help you decide where to take your profits when you enter your signals as S&Rs is what the market reacts to 80% of the time; 20% of the time is a reversal moves.
Do not over-trade or up your stake to recover your losses - Theres always tomorrow. Take a breather.
dr.blix
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Hey Dr B - I am currently long E$ from 14852 and i have moved my stop loss to 866 to secure 14 pips. Not sure how far this one is going so want to make sure i take some pips.
u get stopped out kaisen?
i opened another long after the beaflag played out. didn't get a good entry though (868)
got a really tight stop on too (12 pips)
Dr Blix - do you have your tradestation open watching each tic? I know that's what cost me today. I shorted the CAD/JPY on the DBHLC (4 hourly - 8742) which occured prior to the US sell off. I saw my position move into the blue but then went into the red again. As a result I figured I had called the market wrong as the 2nd bar low was 8697 and manually closed my positon for a loss at around 8735.
As it happens price reached within a couple of pips of the 8742 (stop put just above the DBH) but didn't quite make it, meaning if I didn't close the trade manually I would still be in and because of the US sell off etc be up 80 pips or so. A risk reward ratio of 1:2 with the trade open to possibly make more.
What makes me even more livid is that to fill this trade I cancelled my EUR/USD sell order at 14980 and we all know what happened to the Eur since!
Point being is that I obviously started with a plan (even if we exclude the Eur/USD order) and the CAD/JPY trade was a good one to take based on the DBHLC and break of 8700 initially but as I was watching each tic I got intimidated when I saw price get so close to my stop especially when it moved into profit so early on. So in this instance I know that watching the station and deviating from my plan cost me, hopefully its a lesson learnt but I think alot of us fall because of a lack of discipline and it certainly cost me today.
All the best.
As it happens price reached within a couple of pips of the 8742 (stop put just above the DBH) but didn't quite make it, meaning if I didn't close the trade manually I would still be in and because of the US sell off etc be up 80 pips or so. A risk reward ratio of 1:2 with the trade open to possibly make more.
What makes me even more livid is that to fill this trade I cancelled my EUR/USD sell order at 14980 and we all know what happened to the Eur since!
Point being is that I obviously started with a plan (even if we exclude the Eur/USD order) and the CAD/JPY trade was a good one to take based on the DBHLC and break of 8700 initially but as I was watching each tic I got intimidated when I saw price get so close to my stop especially when it moved into profit so early on. So in this instance I know that watching the station and deviating from my plan cost me, hopefully its a lesson learnt but I think alot of us fall because of a lack of discipline and it certainly cost me today.
All the best.
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