Ukraine invasion

CavaliereVerde said:
I have already stated my condition to define loss for Ukraine, the fall of Kharkiv and Odessa.
Click to expand...
Apologies CV - you have said that, fair enough.
CavaliereVerde said:
BTW if now 20% of the territory is under russian control I don't think it will ever go beyond 25%.
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Apologies again. A typo on my part - I meant 20% not 25%. That said, I don't think we'll have to wait very long before the 25% figure is reached!
😉
 
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counter_violent said:
I did answer the questions.
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Er, no c_v - you haven't.
Consequently, unless and until you provide a proper answer, I can only assume (based on all your posts on the thread to date) that you're quite prepared for every Ukrainian man, woman and child to lose their lives and, equally, for Zelensky and Ukraine to lose every square inch of the country fighting Russia.
counter_violent said:
It doesn't matter what I think, it's not germane.
The only thing that matters is what Ukrainians think.
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If what you think doesn't matter and your thoughts aren't germane to the topic, why are you posting to the thread?

If I want to know what Ukrainians think - I'll ask them direct. The daughter of Mrs. timsk's oldest and closest friend has just taken in two of them; a mother and daughter, hubby/dad can't leave Ukraine. But they're not the ones on here spouting the usual 'Putin and Russia bad - Zelensky and Ukraine good' propaganda and insisting that Russian forces are driven out of Ukraine at any cost (see my first comment) and at the risk of the conflict escalating into a nuclear one. And all this for reasons that you either don't know or won't share, expecting us to settle for 'Putin's a gangster and has to go'. You're the one saying all of that c_v, therefore your thoughts on the topic matter a great deal and are extremely germane to the thread.
Tim.
 
Interesting this article about the polish colonel.
I am certain that NATO personnel is conducting covert ops in Ukraine.
NATO is not forced to help Ukraine but single countries can do what they want.
Classical pro Russian propaganda wording : "Kiev regime" , "hostilities against Russia".
It almost seem Ukraine is attacking Russia and not Russia attacking Ukraine.
 
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CavaliereVerde said:
Interesting this article about the Polish Colonel.
I am certain that NATO personnel is conducting covert ops in Ukraine.
NATO is not forced to help Ukraine but sinlge coutries can do what they want.
Classical pro Russian propaganda wording : "Kiev regime" , "hostilities against Russia".
It almost seem Ukraine is attacking Russia and not Russia attacking Ukraine.
Click to expand...
Normally, NATO soldiers terminate their army affiliation in their home country and join Ukrainian forces as mercenaries. This guy did not.
Mercenaries are not protected by the Geneva Convention and can be easily convicted like criminals - maybe he wanted to stay protected? 😉

To the wording of Russian news:
"Western media have provided an excessively partial narrative of what they call Russia's "special operation" in Ukraine that ignores Russia's concerns about the enlargement of NATO and the alleged persecution of Russian-speakers."
www.reuters.com

EXCLUSIVE Russia warns U.S. media in Moscow they risk losing their accreditation - sources

Russia warned U.S. news organisations on Monday they risked being stripped of their accreditation unless the treatment of Russian journalists in the United States improves, according to three sources with knowledge of the matter.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
Another map (from an U.S. institute) about the control of territory in the warzones of Ukraine:
storymaps.arcgis.com

Interactive Map: Russia's Invasion of Ukraine

This interactive map complements the static control-of-terrain maps that ISW daily produces with high-fidelity.
storymaps.arcgis.com storymaps.arcgis.com

It's interesting that this map does not confirm that Ukraine got some territory back in Severodonetsk in residential districts.
 
It's like some people do not know what is going on?

EU takes all sorts of steps to fuel the fighting death and destruction including participating in sanctions and embargoes whilst at the same time expect business as usual in all other areas to suit her interests.

The duplicity, hypocrisy and clear stupidity of some people are unbelievable.

It's like can they do that to us? Don't they know we are the EU?

I reckon once leaders start losing their seats some of the lies will change for new lies. Boris to show us how.
 
counter_violent said:
When Russia doesn't like hearing truth, it just walks out.

www.bbc.co.uk

Ukraine war: EU blames Russia for food crisis prompting walkout

Ukraine is a major exporter of grain and cooking oil but the war has cut off supplies at ports.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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It's the BBC and the EU, c_v!!!
Would you like me to remind you what you think about both those organisations? At the very least, given all you've said about both of them over the years, surely you at least question the narrative they pump out? I get that it fits neatly with your view about Putin and Russia, but I'm genuinely shocked if you accept it unconditionally: you of all people must have your doubts.

So, here's the alternative narrative. . .
Ships can't leave ports like Mariupol because the Ukrainians have mined the surrounding waters and scuppered ships to make it next to impossible for large vessels to get in and out. But the BBC won't ever report that because it negates the narrative of 'Zelensky and Ukraine good - Putin and Russia bad'.
Tim.
 
timsk said:
I get that it fits neatly with your view about Putin and Russia, but I'm genuinely shocked if you accept it unconditionally: you of all people must have your doubts.
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I think Putin WAS right on many things, especially on START and how US unilaterally abandoned it.
BUT
If Putin were a good guy his political competitors would not be jailed, shot, poisoned, living in other countries.
Zelensky and Ukraine are far from perfect but here Putin is definitelly the bad guy.
 
CavaliereVerde said:
I think Putin WAS right on many things, especially on START and how US unilaterally abandoned it.
BUT
If Putin were a good guy his political competitors would not be jailed, shot, poisoned, living in other countries.
Zelensky and Ukraine are far from perfect but here Putin is definitelly the bad guy.
Click to expand...
CV,
I have said from the start that there are no good guys and bad guys - they're all bad guys. I've never suggested for one second that Putin was a 'good' guy and (in broad terms), agree with your comments about him here. He may well be a 'gangster' and all the rest of it, but the same damning indictment can be made against Zelensky. That's the key point.
Tim.
 
When it comes to good guys and bad guys in diplomacy, the simple rule is that we are the good guys and all the rest are not.

And this drives towards the objectives of diplomacy, which are the protection and extension of our political influence and economic interests.

Our objective is not continuous global war. But let's not let the rest of the world think, nor should we kid ourselves, that it is global peace and universal democracy.
 
The U.S. and the Far-Right in Ukraine
On point btl comment from 'crisisgarden':
"US foreign policy is to use terrorist groups, however extreme or unsavoury, as a Swiss Army knife depending on the circumstances and context. Need to topple a government in the ME? Easy – whip up, fund, train and arm the local Islamist crazies. Can’t find any? No problem – just ship some in. Need to topple a government in a non-Muslim region? Tricky. Try the local Nazis.
But of course that becomes difficult when you’re also trying to suppress political dissent in your own (non-Muslim) country.
Now we’ve got good Nazis and bad Nazis. What a wonderful contribution the criminals calling themselves the United States government have made to the world."
 
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The point is that there are different shades of gray and Putin is much darker than Zelensky.
I don't think Zelensky is the most democratic leader in the world but it could be the most brave.
I remained in Kiev when he could leave, yesterday he visited the frontlines, 20 km from the enemy.
 
@timsk
I agree with you about US , they support everyone to promote their interests.
Having said that here we have to focus on Ukraine and Russia.
Is Zelensky a puppet of US? Maybe, just like every other western leader...
Is Zelensky regularly elected? YES
Is Zelensky a nazi? NO
 
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