Ukraine invasion

[IlIlIlIlI]

Just an example to compare to find the - better: your - truth:

Paul Urey - Foreign Combatants

foreigncombatants.ru

DPR divulges death of captured UK mercenary from chronic illnesses

Paul Urey's diagnoses included type 1 diabetes, respiratory system and kidney disorders, as well as cardiovascular diseases

tass.com

Mum of Brit aid worker slams Putin’s ‘f***ing murderers’ after hostage dies

THE distraught mum of British aid worker Paul Urey has slammed Vladimir Putin’s “f***ing murderers” for letting him die in captivity. Paul, 45, from Manchester, died on Sunday whi…

www.thesun.co.uk

Aid worker in the Developing country Ukraine? Spy? Mercenary?

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

Sorry but tass is worth zero.

Unfortunately wrong.
TASS is writing facts and quoting opinions while meanwhile Western MSM is writing opionions and narratives to prevent you from making up your own opinion.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

I prefer not to discuss about facts against persons, deaths illnesses rapes etch...
Because everything can be staged or a lie.
I prefer to discuss about destroyed buildings and equipment.
Proven facts are that more than 10 ammo depots have been destroyed by himars and ther is no proof of any himars destroyed by russians.
I dont' know if 10 himars will make the difference or if 10 ammo depots are significant or not but these are the facts.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

I prefer not to discuss about facts against persons, deaths illnesses rapes etch...
Because everything can be staged or a lie.
I prefer to discuss about destroyed buildings and equipment.
Proven facts are that more than 10 ammo depots have been destroyed by himars and ther is no proof of any himars destroyed by russians.
I dont' know if 10 himars will make the difference or if 10 ammo depots are significant or not but these are the facts.

Please list these 10 depots or the locations, I only read about 2 or 3 and an ammonition factory in DPR where now 1,500 jobs are lost.
The rest of the HIMARS rockets is used by Ukraine only to destroy as much as possible of civilian people, homes and infrastructure.

Edit Other stuff:

Nato’s Ukraine crusade hits the buffers of reality - The Conservative Woman

Nato’s Ukraine crusade hits the buffers of reality

www.conservativewoman.co.uk

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Please list these 10 depots or the locations, I only read about 2 or 3 and an ammonition factory in DPR where now 1,500 jobs are lost.
The rest of the HIMARS rockets is used by Ukraine only to destroy as much as possible of civilian people, homes and infrastructure.

Edit Other stuff:

Nato’s Ukraine crusade hits the buffers of reality - The Conservative Woman

Nato’s Ukraine crusade hits the buffers of reality

www.conservativewoman.co.uk

This is from 7 days ago.
I am monitoring livuamap every day there is at least a warehouse explosion every day.
Civilian houses do not produce secondary esplosions for one hour.

 

[counter_violent]

Unfortunately wrong.
TASS is writing facts and quoting opinions while meanwhile Western MSM is writing opionions and narratives to prevent you from making up your own opinion.

No, Tass is the propaganda arm of the Russian state, Always has been always will be.

 

[timsk]

Besides direct Nato intervention, there is one other way that Ukraine could see off those pesky Russians. If Zelensky could rustle up quarter of a million mercenaries who are all trained soldiers - that might be a game changer. The question is - how's he going to find that many personnel - and quickly? Sleepy Joe to the rescue . . .
More than 260,000 Troops Not Fully Vaccinated, Many Face Discharge

 

[new_trader]

I agree with the statement "Most people would rather die than think". As far as my direct experience is concerned, Western Governments and the complicit MSM have proven to be untrustworthy. They lied about the causes of the 2008 financial crisis, they lied about the impact of their monetary and fiscal policy, they lied about deflation, they lied about inflation being transitory.

You could say they are just incompetent, but that is just as bad. There is little difference between being evil or incompetent. In fact, as Tom Woods rightly argued, if they were simply incompetent, you would expect that statistically, every now and again they would accidentally do something that benefits us, but it never seems to be the case. Everything they do results in a reduction of our standard of living.

If you doubt me, then I refer you to Austrian Economics. They have plenty of historical examples to show how everything Governments have done, are doing, and will do, always turns out bad. Yet time and time again Governments follow the same playbook as if it will work "this" time. That, as far as I am concerned, makes them evil and therefore untrustworthy.

Who do I trust? I think this Venn diagram probably shows it best. Most of the links provided in this thread by @timsk @IlIlIlIlI and @Atilla fall into the truth IMO.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Probably MSM is unreliable about economy but this not a discussion about economy.
I agree with your diagram but not with your conclusion.
The position of @IlIlIlIlI @timsk and @Atilla is essentioally pro Russian, it can summerized in

• Russia is strong
• Russia is right
• Russia is winning

 

[timsk]

The position of @IlIlIlIlI @timsk and @Atilla is essentioally pro Russian, it can summerized in

• Russia is strong
• Russia is right
• Russia is winning

CV,
First off - I'm absolutely not 'pro-Russian'. That's a slur which I take great exception to as I've made it clear time and time again that this isn't my view. Kindly withdraw the comment.
As to the three bulleted assertions - let's look at them in turn. . .

Russia is strong
Clearly Russia is strong. We know this just by looking at the stat's about the size of its armed forces and being a nuclear power etc. Surely this isn't contentious and we can both agree that by any measure Russia is indeed strong?

Russia is right
Now, either you've not been reading my posts (and At's, histo's and n_t's etc.) or you're just being provocative. If you pay me, (otherwise you're just wasting my time which is unacceptable), I'll happily go through this thread and link to the numerous posts in which I've stated repeatedly that Putin was wrong to start the war and that he should call a ceasefire and withdraw all his forces immediately. What I and others have pointed out is that the west has provoked him and, furthermore, they would do exactly the same (and have done in the past) if the shoe was on the other foot and they thought they faced an existential threat. Putin and the Kremlin take that view which is why they're doing what they're doing. But, that doesn't make it right and I don't support their action and I'm absolutely not 'pro-Russian'. Clear?

Russia is winning
If one takes the view that Russia wanted to conquer all of Ukraine in a matter of days and say 'job done' - then clearly it failed in that endeavour and, therefore, it could be argued that Russia's not winning and is losing/has lost the war. However, I don't take that view at all. The only measure that has value is not what the west says Putin's objectives are - but what Putin himself says his objectives are. By that measure, he is clearly winning as evidenced by the red areas on the military maps showing Russian control which are getting bigger - not smaller - by the day.

To conclude, there is any amount of evidence that Russia is both strong and is winning. Anyone who thinks otherwise either has an agenda to push and/or isn't able or willing to engage in any critical thinking and blindly consumes whatever garbage western MSM spews out. As for Russia being right, my response is emphatic: they are wrong to invade but their reasons for doing so (as outlined in detail by Prof. Prof. John Mearsheimer) are understandable.
Tim.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

For example we should define what is "alternative".
According to @IlIlIlIlI southfront blog is "the truth".

SouthFront - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[CavaliereVerde]

 

[Atilla]

Probably MSM is unreliable about economy but this not a discussion about economy.
I agree with your diagram but not with your conclusion.
The position of @IlIlIlIlI @timsk and @Atilla is essentioally pro Russian, it can summerized in

• Russia is strong
• Russia is right
• Russia is winning

Cavalier, I have always been on the side of Western democracy and freedom. I was anti-communist and supported free markets and enterprise and globalisation of capital through multi-national corporations as they were called in my time.

As I said before, I grew up on watching The Waltons, Little House on the Prairie, Lassie, and the 6 million dollar man. I used to discuss and argue with my left-wing, red-tie wearing sociology tutors. I even voted for Thatcher and Blair once for each. So you see where I am coming from.

Imagine how much BS I have digested after about 40 years of living and working in the City of London before I saw through all that tosh.

I really do not care for nationalities, patriotism or cultures or god! These are man made selfish words and Worlds.

What happens in Ukraine and / or Russia is neither here nor there for me. I see it in the price of fence panels and food prices which some think is funny. I can afford it and doesn't cause too much of an issue. More an observation than discomfort.

I like to think of myself as an objective humanite if you please don't mind.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

I really do not care for nationalities, patriotism or cultures or god! These are man made selfish words and Worlds.

Neither I , I would like more freedom for russians and ukranians , better living conditions .
Unfortunatelly Putin is not working for this.

 

[Atilla]

Neither I , I would like more freedom for russians and ukranians , better living conditions .
Unfortunatelly Putin is not working for this.

I think Putin is working towards improving lives but US UK and EU are not. That is certainly clear imo.

I mean Russian and Ukrainian lives.

The West and us all, I suppose. we all are selective on who's lives we are more interested in. Very selfish indeed.

This is a pointless war. Surprised it is still going on.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

I think Putin is working towards improving lives

I suggest you to ivestigate more on life in Transnistria, DPR and Abcasia because those are the result of Putin action.

 

[counter_violent]

Marvelous, someone telling it exactly how it is.

So, these 2 are both academics and their positions diametrically opposed, no common ground regarding the Ukraine conflict. There is zero chance that they could ever reach a consensus position. So in this regard, one of them must be wrong.

There is no halfway house. Either Putin can be blamed, or Putin can be excused.

It's clear where the CV's sit on this issue.

 

[timsk]

There is no halfway house. Either Putin can be blamed, or Putin can be excused.

c_v,
Prof Alexander Stubb is a globalist who believes in an international rules based world order. He's the sort of man who - in any other context - you'd run a mile from and 'dis' in the way you used to 'dis' EU politicians. I haven't checked, but I bet he's a WEF alumni. Needless to say, Putin (among many others) doesn't want to play ball with this new world order bollox; he's a spanner in the works for the likes of prof. Stubb, Bojo, Biden et al. Ergo, he (Putin) must be stopped - evidenced by Biden's admission that he wants to see a regime change in Russia. It's okay when 'we' do it; not so when others do it.

Effectively, all Stubb is doing here is trotting out the same tired narrative that western MSM have been peddling from the get go. And, unlike Mearsheimer, he just presents his own views and does not support his argument with multiple references to what the great and the good have said about the background to the conflict in the way that the former does so meticulously. It's just a lot of hot air. Granted, he's an eloquent speaker and his background makes him very credible, which will be very persuasive to anyone who's not familiar with the broader history leading up to the conflict. Mearsheimer's argument knocks spots off Stubbs' IMO - but I accept you think the opposite.
Tim.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

The West and us all, I suppose. we all are selective on who's lives we are more interested in. Very selfish indeed.

Agreed.

 

[Atilla]

Agreed.

The US and Biden with his tail between his legs has gone to Sauidie's begging for forgiveness.

Talk about supporting democracy and freedoms the hypocrisy and duplicity of it all should make one belch and throw up into sick bucketsss...

Sauidies buying cheap oil from Russia and selling it with mark-up to the rest of the World applying sanctions.

Dubai fast becoming Finance hub to the Eastern World.

US authority waning all over the place. Yet they continue with wars and sanctions hurting them selves.

Stupidity of it all is remarkable imo.

What about that Ukraine flight crash in Greece. Carrying Western arms sent to figth the Russians to other countries. Really? Plane blew up with lots of secondary explosions carrying toxic material. I am higihly sceptical about this plane carrying critical sh!t having engine failure. Moreover, these aircraft can withstand one engine failure.

Some patriotic Ukrainian fookers are getting awfully rich distributing WMD whilst poor little Ukrainians are told to fight for their country.

These simple power plays are so freaking obvious yet our MSM fill the airways with BS lies and misinformation.

All you brown nosed MSM followers, putting out tosh about how good we are and bad they are should wipe noses clean of US and Western feaces and smell the air.