UK Politics

CavaliereVerde

Senior member
I don’t know about Sweden and Denmark but Norway is a very big oil exporter.
Oil plays a big part in Norway's wealth but it is not just oil otherwise we could not explain Sweden and Denmark.
My point is that there is no easy recipe like raising taxes or lowering taxes to improve economy.
European socialdemocracy is what works the best but you need smart politicians.

Has Denmark much lower birth rate than UK?
Just checked: 1.65 for UK and 1.70 for Denmark.
 

tomorton

Legendary member
Heard a snippet of a programme on Radio 4 yesterday on the cost of living crisis.

A lady phoned in who's a full-time NHS nurse working at a GP surgery. She is a single mother and finds herself becoming burned out and exhausted by her job. She can't afford to reduce her hours, the biological father is not paying maintenance and her bills are rising. At this point, she must surely have everyone's sympathy, what an awful situation to be in.

Her proposed solution is to move into an NHS management role. It won't mean much difference in pay but at least she will not be exhausted by her front-line hands-on job role.

A perfect illustration of why British management, especially in the public sector, is so mediocre.
 
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J Livermore

Active member
European socialdemocracy is what works the best but you need smart politicians.
There is no one best way to live life. Comparing which nations and their individual local governments (such as counties, provinces, ect) is not a Mr. Universe contest where bodybuilders show off their economic muscles.

The more choices of political systems that families can choose from, the happier they will be. Whether they are choosing from a plethora of local governments within the same nation or they decide to move internationally, diversity in government is a necessity for change. Innovation would be crushed if all governments adopted similar systems and ways of life.
 

tomorton

Legendary member
I agree on the need for radical re-thinking on the NHS. In fact radical re-thinking on all universal benefits. I have no idea why my taxes should go towards helping my bank manager get cheaper medicines from Boots.

The abolition of universal benefits is a core belief for conservatives: that's because they believe these things should mostly be paid for by themselves if they themselves could afford it. The provision of universal benefits is a core belief socialists: that's because they believe they all should be paid for by somebody else, even if they themselves could afford it.

The inevitable conclusion of the leftist view is that the state should have the right to decide on our personal lives and habits.
As a current illustration of the principle in my last point (highlighted), see recent proposed legislation in New Zealand.


In that country, run by socialists of course, its proposed that anyone now aged 14 will not ever be able to purchase cigarettes in New Zealand. Its not just that they won't be able to purchase them until they are an adult, they will never be able to purchase them. This will be a life ban.

So, the New Zealanders are in exactly the situation I described - its the state which defines what choices people have, because its the state which pays for the impact of those choices.

No doubt leftists in the UK are watching with interest.
 

alan5616

Established member
As a current illustration of the principle in my last point (highlighted), see recent proposed legislation in New Zealand.


In that country, run by socialists of course, its proposed that anyone now aged 14 will not ever be able to purchase cigarettes in New Zealand. Its not just that they won't be able to purchase them until they are an adult, they will never be able to purchase them. This will be a life ban.

So, the New Zealanders are in exactly the situation I described - its the state which defines what choices people have, because its the state which pays for the impact of those choices.

No doubt leftists in the UK are watching with interest.
I'd happily swap the government of NZ for ours. Over there, they put the welfare and security of their citizens before corporate greed.
 

counter_violent

Legendary member
I'd happily swap the government of NZ for ours. Over there, they put the welfare and security of their citizens before corporate greed.

It won't be long before that type of Govt, "we know better than you" introduces involuntary euthanasia. Then we will see what you think about it.
 

counter_violent

Legendary member

tomorton

Legendary member
I'd happily swap the government of NZ for ours. Over there, they put the welfare and security of their citizens before corporate greed.
"corporate greed"?

A strange phrase for a trader to use on a website for traders. You surely must understand that nothing happens until somebody buys something? That government has no money of its own since it isn't a profit-making enterprise - the only money government has comes from taxes. And those taxes have to be paid by corporations or their employees.

As to the NZ government prioritising citizens over corporations, as far as I can make out the only governments that don't do that are North Korea, Russia, China and the like. Hard not to remark that these are all based on socialism. Like almost all those that came before them who openly placed the welfare of their citizens at a low priority.
 

Atilla

Legendary member
"corporate greed"?

A strange phrase for a trader to use on a website for traders. You surely must understand that nothing happens until somebody buys something? That government has no money of its own since it isn't a profit-making enterprise - the only money government has comes from taxes. And those taxes have to be paid by corporations or their employees.

As to the NZ government prioritising citizens over corporations, as far as I can make out the only governments that don't do that are North Korea, Russia, China and the like. Hard not to remark that these are all based on socialism. Like almost all those that came before them who openly placed the welfare of their citizens at a low priority.

So why the big Covid lockdown and isolations and police powers to fine people doing what they want? All in the name to protect us citizens. There there is the £400 bn giveaway. Rishi thinks we should be thankful for his generosity.

Freaking politicians messed up big time. Giving £bns in contracts to friends and families whilst getting secretaries into jobs and beds.

Governments indeed. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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tomorton

Legendary member
So why the big Covid lockdown and isolations and police powers to fine people doing what they want? All in the name to protect us citizens. There there is the £400 bn giveaway. Rishi thinks we should be thankful for his generosity.

Freaking politicians messed up big time. Giving £bns in contracts to friends and families whilst getting secretaries into jobs and beds.

Governments indeed. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
Lockdowns were advised by the government's health experts. They would have been classed as either eccentric, daring, arrogant or money-wasters if they had ignored the advice of the expensive experts they have appointed for just this eventuality. In politics its probably safer to be wrong along with everyone else who is also wrong, rather than risk being wrong on your own.

As far as political corruption is concerned, this is a common behaviour across the political spectrum. Its easy to criticise politicians for being politicians but its a lot harder to develop a better system. Do you have a better system in mind?
 

alan5616

Established member
"corporate greed"?

A strange phrase for a trader to use on a website for traders. You surely must understand that nothing happens until somebody buys something? That government has no money of its own since it isn't a profit-making enterprise - the only money government has comes from taxes. And those taxes have to be paid by corporations or their employees.

As to the NZ government prioritising citizens over corporations, as far as I can make out the only governments that don't do that are North Korea, Russia, China and the like. Hard not to remark that these are all based on socialism. Like almost all those that came before them who openly placed the welfare of their citizens at a low priority.
It's not a strange phrase to use. When I trade, I'm taking the risk and doing the work. I'm not employing thousands of people, on near starvation wages, as many large corporations do. I abhor unfettered capitalism which is pushing the planet to the edge of destruction.
 

tomorton

Legendary member
It's not a strange phrase to use. When I trade, I'm taking the risk and doing the work. I'm not employing thousands of people, on near starvation wages, as many large corporations do. I abhor unfettered capitalism which is pushing the planet to the edge of destruction.
Nobody in the UK is employed on starvation wages (even people here who are not employed are not starving). Capitalism in the UK is not unfettered. The planet is not on the edge of destruction. Capitalism has built the UK into what it is. How do you think the NHS, for example, is paid for?
 

counter_violent

Legendary member
So why the big Covid lockdown and isolations and police powers to fine people doing what they want? All in the name to protect us citizens. There there is the £400 bn giveaway. Rishi thinks we should be thankful for his generosity.

Freaking politicians messed up big time. Giving £bns in contracts to friends and families whilst getting secretaries into jobs and beds.

Governments indeed. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Cos all of a sudden, Govt's the world over were following quack science based on worst case scenario because they all knew that Covid19 was a gain of function Lab Leaked Virus and none of them knew if it was going to be the next black death.

Obvious innit.
Govt's are NOT in the business of giving money away to the plebs, without good reason.
 

alan5616

Established member
Nobody in the UK is employed on starvation wages (even people here who are not employed are not starving). Capitalism in the UK is not unfettered. The planet is not on the edge of destruction. Capitalism has built the UK into what it is. How do you think the NHS, for example, is paid for?
Many people will have to make a choice between heating or eating next winter, while energy companies are making more money than they know what to with. If you think that we're not heading towards more environmental disasters, then you haven't been paying attention.
 
 
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