TV show about trading

[Trader333]

....I'm the first to agree that my performance was dire,

I wouldn't be in any way concerned about that because that is how up to 95% of those trade also perform and often with a lot more training and experience than you appeared to have received.

Thanks for posting it has certainly added a lot more interest to this thread.


Paul

 

[Trader333]

Apart from my c**k-up on RSA buy vs sell, (which incidentally was repeated by several other traders)

Very true it is something that almost all the successful traders that I know of have done including myself.


Paul

 

[simonbrew]

Hi Simon,
Welcome to T2W,
Don't take all the 'slagging off' comments personally. It looks very much as if your training left a lot to be desired and, for the record, I doubt that there are many peeps here who would disagree with your assessment of Lex's right hand man!

Tim.
P.S. There are lots of good people on T2W - and good traders too - who will be very happy to assist you if you decide to pursue trading without the pressures of a TV crew looking over your shoulder.

Thanks for your support..
For interest, our every thought, word and deed over a ten week period was all recorded, though in the end less than 0.5% of the material was used, and by the end we were all pretty relaxed about the omnipresence of the film crew. For me, the pressure came much more from my poor trading record, (both absolutely and relative to the rest of the team), when I really wanted to do well.

If I may, I'll get back to you via a PM on how and where to get some assistance - many thanks for the offer.

 

[TigerTrader]

Simon, thank you for your insight of the programme.

Just a thought - as a lot of traders get it wrong - did none of the traders think to place trades that were opposite of those traders who were doing not so well, and follow those who were doing well. Just a thought

 

[simonbrew]

Simon, thank you for your insight of the programme.

Just a thought - as a lot of traders get it wrong - did none of the traders think to place trades that were opposite of those traders who were doing not so well, and follow those who were doing well. Just a thought

That's a very interesting idea. I did actually suggest that strategy to Anton around week 2, particularly in respect of my own trading decisions, but he decided that it just wasn't "cricket", so to speak. I would probably have been the star trader if I had reversed every trade I placed! I may try that strategy myself if/when I resume private trading.

 

[oiltanker]

simonbrew

welcome.
if you have had time to read the douglas book then you will know how to deal with the emotions. batch trading rather than book trading.

could you trade currencies or bonds?

 

[N Rothschild]

tbh i was quite impressed that after 2 weeks of training you even had the slightest clue what you were looking at...let alone trying to make money

 

[Atilla]

As you found me irritating, you'll be relieved to hear that, for obvious reasons, I hardly appear in episode 3, but I wonder I what I would make of you?!

As to your substantive questions:
What did you base your trades on after the two week training?
No specific rules, we each did our own thing, initially within FTSE 100, later anywhere. Some traded on news, some on TA, some on FA, some on whim. Only high level rules were fund size, % in any one trade, % long vs short.

Did they give you any entry / exit criteria?
Various systems were discussed during the training, but none was imposed

Was there any system you or the others used?
Nothing specific initially, though the better traders developed their own over time. We were all exhorted to build a balanced portfolio (long v short, sectors etc), with an overall bias in the direction in which we thought the market was heading.

Thank you for your curteous reply Simon.

Like your self I work in IT and also had the pleasure of working for Credit Suisse and Cazenove during my contracting career and did not enjoy trading floor support (size of football pitches). I can relate to the pressure and stress in these environments.

In trading floor areas they don't take any hostages and have no time for people who are not up to the task. These people want results and anyone who isn't up to the job is shown the door. Very cut throat and demanding.

Traders who develop in their own time - take many years with private finance. I guess when you are dealing with other peoples money you don't have that slap dash luxery of time, trial and error approach.

Regarding training/nurturing roles it depends on what character people are. Some people take criticism well and others don't. May depend on age and self confidence.
People who are not confident break down. People who are learn from it and come back fighting. I don't believe there is any definite approach that has clear advantage. Depends on individuals temperament. No doubt it helps if you start of with someone who has the head, the stomach and the appetite for it all.



Overall I still feel uncomfortable about the scope and purpose of this programs format. Just does't feel right knowing what I do about the industry and personal trading and its hazards.

My take on the program is that you can get various people from different walks of life and turn them into money making traders.

Just like that! (said with a Tommy Cooper accent... :cheesy:)

 

[Skill Leverage]

I hate to interrupt the circle jerk, but I stand by my initial comments. You were incredibly dismissive of Anton at points in the first two episodes, whose every word you should likely have been hanging off given his experience comparative to that of the group. You spoke of wanting to make a career out of trading yet, having been given an 'opportunity of a lifetime' to prove yourself, we find you sitting away from your desk casually eating cereal when the markets opened; to make matters worse you had an open position from the previous day. That just shows a complete lack of respect in my opinion.

I know that programs can be cut to make people appear a certain way, but from what they showed you seemed to be pretty abrasive, with no real interest in being there.

 

[shadowninja]

I have a million thoughts on the programme, but I'll wear my fingers to the bone if I type even 1% of what I think, so perhaps meeting at the next social is the way forward, assuming you're near London?

If you're in the Surrey area, you're welcome to pop along to the next Chessington meet.

 

[JRP2891]

I hate to interrupt the circle jerk, but I stand by my initial comments. You were incredibly dismissive of Anton at points in the first two episodes, whose every word you should likely have been hanging off given his experience comparative to that of the group. You spoke of wanting to make a career out of trading yet, having been given an 'opportunity of a lifetime' to prove yourself, we find you sitting away from your desk casually eating cereal when the markets opened; to make matters worse you had an open position from the previous day. That just shows a complete lack of respect in my opinion.

I know that programs can be cut to make people appear a certain way, but from what they showed you seemed to be pretty abrasive, with no real interest in being there.

I have to say i agree regarding what you said about Simon not respecting Anton nearly enough. However i disagree that Simon didn't show the task respect, yes he was much too casual at the start, but anyone who has been there at the beginning of their trading career could see that what they were watching. Simon was a broken man who had been battered by the markets since day one, a trying experience. He'd also realised that he might not have what it takes to succeed in trading, part of that being the mental strength to come back from a string of losers. We all get down as a result of trading at some point, but the true winners don't stay down for long, they find a way to succeed.

Simon, i have to comment on this sorry; I can't imagine you felt too great about yourself when you were giving Anton a slagging off calling him a to*ser, only then for him to give you a great farewell speech and applause off the trading floor? Did you think about what you'd said when he was singing your praises as a good guy? I think he's a top bloke from what i've watched of the programme.

 

[N Rothschild]

i saw simon a bit like a child who didn't like being told off by their parents

 

[brutusdog]

which one is simon? the old dude?

 

[JRP2891]

The older one yes.

 

[oiltanker]

>>
Overall I still feel uncomfortable about the scope and purpose of this programs format.<<

you wouldn't get a good idea what trading is about from the show except in the terms of human emotions traders go through. if they had TA etc and they edited all that out then the show just makes them out to look just a load of trippers to Vegas betting on whatever news 24 says.. indeed they could do the same kind of show in a casino. here's 10 grand go play any game you like and see how much you 'win'?

there probably is a good show about trading you could do but it would never be aired on national tv- not enough ratings, general belief the public is thick and can't understand long words?

the people on the show did they best they could at the height of the volatility . August because of the holidays is known for wild swings anyway without the crunch? Also trading shares rather than currencies or bonds? Shares has to be the hardest game to start with? you have to know so much about a firm. which is why insider trading works?

the concept is like giving people two weeks rifle training and then sending them off to fight the taliban 'to see if anyone can do it'?

 

[Hoggums]

I thought about this programme a lot and if I was on it - would I be successful..

I think posters have to remember - these people weren't day trading or spread betting - they were buying selling shares on unleveraged funds which have a 1.5-2.5% round trip cost associated with them.

So your purchase needs to go up 2.5% before you've even made a penny. (Correct me if I'm wrong Simon) - were you subject to stamp duty costs also? Stops can be pretty irrelevant also because an overnight gap could easily smash through and way past your stop.

For the majority of you that trade indices/forex how well would you do if that was your trading criteria? For the ftse that would mean a 105 point buy-sell spread !!

I think the experiment was not long enough, 10 weeks is not enough to get a good return on a share. You buy shares not just for the price increase but for the dividend also and this is something that would not have been taken account of, that alone could have yielded an extra 5% in the account.

There was a lot of emphasis on cutting those losers - but if they are properly hedged there is in fact not necesarily need to do so - particularly if a dividend is due. If you buy a share that yields 8% and it drops 10% - it's still going to give you a return of 8% on your investment and with a suitable hedge that 10% loss is reduced.

 

[Skill Leverage]

I completely agree Hoggums, asking anyone to become proficient in any career in a matter of weeks is a pretty ridiculous concept.

My point is this - if I really wanted to be a fighter pilot, and I was given the opportunity to spend 2 months at flight school with some highly experienced instructors, whilst I probably wouldn't be a great pilot by the end of the 2 months, I certainly wouldn't be in the kitchen eating cereal when the morning lecture began.

 

[wasp]

I never watched the programme personally. The whole idea was idiotic and crass TV, as is all reality TV. Ice skating, ballroom dancing, trading or cooking... You can't do any one of them from a 2 week course and popping on the tele, I don't care who taught you.

I think this, and the whole concept of reality show / the idea for traders was dumb and brilliantly marketed to the fame hungry, stupid, niave and ignorant.

Musicians, dancers, chefs and singers aren't made by Simon Cowell and TV execs. Stop living in a dream world that 2 weeks instructions and a few weeks on the tele will kick start a career. Wake up.

The programme and the idea is an insult to traders and paints an even worse portrait of this career which takes years and lots of hard work. Ludicrous.

 

[JRP2891]

It definitely gives people the wrong idea that trading can be learned in 3 months. I'm sure a new flood of aspirees will be on here and in the market as a result, not such a bad thing if you're on the other side of their trades ;-).

 

[oiltanker]

perhaps it should have been more turtles idea. ie give everyone the same trading rules and just see why some people make more money than others with exactly the same rules. that would reveal psychology. who can pull the trigger etc

or give each different rules - one using mas, one using pivots, one using no rules etc and see if it makes any difference?