The fate of a trader

[Aspire]

Depth Trade,

Why bother to continue to take an interest in trading if you so obviously deeply believe nobody makes any money from it?

 

[tenbobtrader]

The fate of a trader

Death or Glory

 

[Splitlink]

Therefore, is it right that we lose our life and soul to a profession or, perhaps more suitable, a game which can only redestribute wealth and not create it?

Right and wrong cannot be the same for everyone , because it is a relative state of affairs. "Right" for me may be "Wrong" for you or vice versa. This goes, not only for the practice of trading, itself, but for the innumerable ways that there are in trading methods.

TD wrote a thread called "How to Make Money" or something similar. That was a method that was right for him and, I hope, right for the majority of those who followed it. Nevertheless, it turned out to be not a certain money maker for me. It was just a thread that gave me some good ideas which could be incorporated into one's own scheme of how trading should be done.

So one should not be too dogmatic about right and wrong.

As for the redistribution of wealth. I would not worry about that, unless it is your wealth that is getting redistributed.

A lot of interesting threadwriters have been given a lot of stick because some readers have taken the posts as gospel. Nothing is written in stone, nothing is right or wrong, nothing is gospel.

Split

 

[montmorencyt2w]

TD wrote a thread called "How to Make Money" or something similar. That was a method that was right for him and, I hope, right for the majority of those who followed it. Nevertheless, it turned out to be not a certain money maker for me. It was just a thread that gave me some good ideas which could be incorporated into one's own scheme of how trading should be done.

So one should not be too dogmatic about right and wrong.

As for the redistribution of wealth. I would not worry about that, unless it is your wealth that is getting redistributed.

A lot of interesting threadwriters have been given a lot of stick because some readers have taken the posts as gospel. Nothing is written in stone, nothing is right or wrong, nothing is gospel.

Split

(Just in case the man himself is too modest to comment):

It was called "Making Money Trading" and can be found here:

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/first-steps/26947-making-money-trading.html

As he made very clear, it is not the only way to make money trading, and it was never portrayed as being something set in stone. I know you know this Split; just want to make it clear for any newbies possibly reading this.

 

[trader_dante]

(Just in case the man himself is too modest to comment):

It was called "Making Money Trading" and can be found here:

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/first-steps/26947-making-money-trading.html

As he made very clear, it is not the only way to make money trading, and it was never portrayed as being something set in stone. I know you know this Split; just want to make it clear for any newbies possibly reading this.

I honestly believe that when people say that something cannot be done in trading it means they are either extremely ignorant (and or shallow minded), extremely jealous or extremely skeptical because they have been unable to do it themselves. The latter two are certainly closely tied.

Any trader worth their salt knows there are an infinte number of ways to make money and its all about what is right for the person doing the trading.

Bottom line: if you are consistently profitable it really doesn't matter how you achieve it. And something only doesn't work when after a statistically significant number of trades you are still in drawdown from your starting capital. Period.

I always thought it took years to learn how to trade. Then a close friend came in as a new grad at my prop firm with no market knowledge and became consistently profitable in the FTSE after just three months learning it.

I always thought it was almost impossible to make several million quickly in this game until I saw it achieved by more than one person from a standing start of zero in just a few years.

I always thought that there was no such thing as a free lunch, until I worked with a young girl that took £50,000 from IG after working out a simple way to do it very easily with zero trading skill or knowledge.

I always thought that one needed to be good at maths until I found out that I could make money but need to add 2+2 on my fingers.

I always thought that trading against the trend will kill you until I saw someone that makes more money than I ever thought was possible by deliberately fading all public opinion and every major trend.

I always knew it was possible to make money consistently but would have said it was next to impossible to not have a losing day in three solid years until I saw it done.

I always thought back when I was searching for a strategy that the really big traders probably didn't read too much into simple candlestick analysis until I saw someone having £50k up days consistently after reading and paying close attention to what the candles were telling him.

I always thought that one must have tight stops and never average until I sat with someone making millions of pounds, averaging hard with loose stops. And unlike most that do this, still doing so, year in, year out.

I always thought that one needed more than just fundamental analysis until it became clear that Jim Rogers can't even read a chart.

And so on...and on...and on...

The fact of the matter is, anything and everything works, if it works for you. Profitable traders that have found their way, may listen attentively and they may advise you on what has worked or not worked for them, but they will rarely tell you that something doesn't work.

 

[Splitlink]

(Just in case the man himself is too modest to comment):

It was called "Making Money Trading" and can be found here:

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/first-steps/26947-making-money-trading.html

As he made very clear, it is not the only way to make money trading, and it was never portrayed as being something set in stone. I know you know this Split; just want to make it clear for any newbies possibly reading this.

I want to be very clear. I thought that TD wrote a great thread. He, along with Mr Charts and a whole series of others have written what, for me, has contained some very useful information. I congratulate them, sincerely, for still being here to give advice. However, there are others who have not been so fortunate and who have decided to give up. Some of those, too, gave me something useful to add to my trading plan but, I suppose, they had more losing readers than winners.

 

[trader_dante]

I want to be very clear. I thought that TD wrote a great thread. He, along with Mr Charts and a whole series of others have written what, for me, has contained some very useful information. I congratulate them, sincerely, for still being here to give advice. However, there are others who have not been so fortunate and who have decided to give up. Some of those, too, gave me something useful to add to my trading plan but, I suppose, they had more losing readers than winners.

The last thing I want to be seen as is arrogant (despite some of my posts lol) but I sometimes think about how my account is growing and I'm earning a living and am free to spend all day lying around in bed with my laptop or going to the park and sitting in the sun and don't have to be up at 6am doing a job I hate with someone breathing down my neck all the time and I think its strange that I've taught my method and shown people what I do and that not everyone is making money with it. It truly is bizarre to me. But its taught me that something has to work for you. You have to feel comfortable with it and you have to trust it - to know its advantages to know its disadvantages, to know its risk:reward ratio, its win:loss ratio, its drawdowns, to know what to expect from it in terms of number of trades etc etc. With my strategy, if you're not comfortable analysing 20 completely different markets at the same time, having stops of anywhere between 30 - 80 pips per trade, getting one trade per day on average (if that) and being able to hold it without watching it and getting fidgety from anywhere between 7 hours to 2 days...it's not the strategy for you. It's very simple. I can do it because I've learnt it and it fits my attitude towards risk and my personality. I can always tell an amateur trader right off the bat because when they find out I've sat with some people making ten times as much money as me and showing me exactly how they trade and what they look for they say to me "you're a fool for not just following what they do".

 

[Black Swan]

I always thought that there was no such thing as a free lunch, until I worked with a young girl that took £50,000 from IG after working out a simple way to do it very easily with zero trading skill or knowledge.

Great post TD, did she do this over lunch? Or was the 50K profit then 'sealed' as IG binned/banned her?

 

[trader_dante]

Great post TD, did she do this over lunch? Or was the 50K profit then 'sealed' as IG binned/banned her?

The free lunch was stopped but she was allowed to keep the £50k profit and her account

 

[Splitlink]

Great post TD, did she do this over lunch? Or was the 50K profit then 'sealed' as IG binned/banned her?

The good news is that the spreadbetting firms do give traders a chance to take 50K from them, even though he might only do it once. With that kind of profit I could go to any broker, so being banned would not worry me. A chance for me, yet!

 

[barjon]

I honestly believe that when people say that something cannot be done in trading it means they are either extremely ignorant (and or shallow minded), extremely jealous or extremely skeptical because they have been unable to do it themselves. The latter two are certainly closely tied.

Any trader worth their salt knows there are an infinte number of ways to make money and its all about what is right for the person doing the trading.

Bottom line: if you are consistently profitable it really doesn't matter how you achieve it. And something only doesn't work when after a statistically significant number of trades you are still in drawdown from your starting capital. Period.

I always thought it took years to learn how to trade. Then a close friend came in as a new grad at my prop firm with no market knowledge and became consistently profitable in the FTSE after just three months learning it.

I always thought it was almost impossible to make several million quickly in this game until I saw it achieved by more than one person from a standing start of zero in just a few years.

I always thought that there was no such thing as a free lunch, until I worked with a young girl that took £50,000 from IG after working out a simple way to do it very easily with zero trading skill or knowledge.

I always thought that one needed to be good at maths until I found out that I could make money but need to add 2+2 on my fingers.

I always thought that trading against the trend will kill you until I saw someone that makes more money than I ever thought was possible by deliberately fading all public opinion and every major trend.

I always knew it was possible to make money consistently but would have said it was next to impossible to not have a losing day in three solid years until I saw it done.

I always thought back when I was searching for a strategy that the really big traders probably didn't read too much into simple candlestick analysis until I saw someone having £50k up days consistently after reading and paying close attention to what the candles were telling him.

I always thought that one must have tight stops and never average until I sat with someone making millions of pounds, averaging hard with loose stops. And unlike most that do this, still doing so, year in, year out.

I always thought that one needed more than just fundamental analysis until it became clear that Jim Rogers can't even read a chart.

And so on...and on...and on...

The fact of the matter is, anything and everything works, if it works for you. Profitable traders that have found their way, may listen attentively and they may advise you on what has worked or not worked for them, but they will rarely tell you that something doesn't work.

That struck a chord t_d since most of the really successful traders I know operate almost in defiance of "textbook" advice. For example, those that use chart patterns (and a couple never look at a chart) use them only in the strategic sense and not by slavishly following a set of detailed rules. I suppose you could describe it as establishing zones of potential entry/exit rather than specific prices. Few of them use stops in the mechanical sense. The common feature is that they all have an excellent feel for the instrument they trade and it's that gut feeling that drives most of their decisions.

On the more general question of life balance I have always thought the most contented folk are those who do for a living what they would otherwise do as a hobby. There's a good few of those in the trading game.

good trading

jon

 

[fibbinstarchi]

The last thing I want to be seen as is arrogant (despite some of my posts lol) but I sometimes think about how my account is growing and I'm earning a living and am free to spend all day lying around in bed with my laptop or going to the park and sitting in the sun and don't have to be up at 6am doing a job I hate with someone breathing down my neck all the time and I think its strange that I've taught my method and shown people what I do and that not everyone is making money with it. It truly is bizarre to me. But its taught me that something has to work for you. You have to feel comfortable with it and you have to trust it - to know its advantages to know its disadvantages, to know its risk:reward ratio, its win:loss ratio, its drawdowns, to know what to expect from it in terms of number of trades etc etc. With my strategy, if you're not comfortable analysing 20 completely different markets at the same time, having stops of anywhere between 30 - 80 pips per trade, getting one trade per day on average (if that) and being able to hold it without watching it and getting fidgety from anywhere between 7 hours to 2 days...it's not the strategy for you. It's very simple. I can do it because I've learnt it and it fits my attitude towards risk and my personality. I can always tell an amateur trader right off the bat because when they find out I've sat with some people making ten times as much money as me and showing me exactly how they trade and what they look for they say to me "you're a fool for not just following what they do".

Howya doing, long time since I posted here. Handbags at dawn then ladies? LOL.
Why are you even bothering to argue with these halfwitts TD? You know what you do, if they don't believe you, then that's their shortcomings, and their right.

Keep making the money, it's out there for the pros to take and for the losers to dream about, it's as simple as that.

 

[fibbinstarchi]

I know a trader who was trading at £200 pp spreadbetting with CMC Markets a few years ago, this trader was creaming the profits and a dealer came on their trading platform accusing this person for working for a bank which was of course untrue, the trade was closed (in profit btw) and no more FX trades were accepted. Makes you laugh, but think about it, you are trading their market, if you lose THEY profit, if you profit, THEY lose, forget about that hedging and 'we earn from the spread' bollox, you are up against the biggest crooks on the market, they are no better that the Bucket shops from the 1930's depression, bookies. Trade with care.

 

[everyonerich]

I know a trader who was trading at £200 pp spreadbetting with CMC Markets a few years ago, this trader was creaming the profits and a dealer came on their trading platform accusing this person for working for a bank which was of course untrue, the trade was closed (in profit btw) and no more FX trades were accepted. Makes you laugh, but think about it, you are trading their market, if you lose THEY profit, if you profit, THEY lose, forget about that hedging and 'we earn from the spread' bollox, you are up against the biggest crooks on the market, they are no better that the Bucket shops from the 1930's depression, bookies. Trade with care.

i've seen there are cases the broker have to deny/requote some Large orders & they tell customers because bank rejects the order. the broker issued a long letters to clients but the main point is telling clients no such thing as magic numbers created from the market and cant just hit the thin market during thin market hours.

but only god knows if broker were telling the truth or lie...

 

[pavelsg]

...I think its strange that I've taught my method and shown people what I do and that not everyone is making money with it...

Why are you thinking that there are no people that can follow your "PIN" method?

 

[trader_dante]

Why are you thinking that there are no people that can follow your "PIN" method?

Well first off because from what I've read it seems like most people think that the method is about pins when its not. Pins are just a minor component. So the real problem for most people is that they haven't understood it properly.

Many of those that perhaps got through the first problem of actually understanding what its about seem to be for the most part unable to trade it on the timeframes I advised because they are not patient enough or they claim they don't like the larger stops.

Why are they not patient enough? Because for the most part they are underfunded but desperately want financial freedom which means they think that to make money they need to be in the market rather than waiting for a setup all the time.

Finally, you get those that made it through all the stages but now can't handle the exit strategy because it makes them feel uncomfortable.

There are so many reasons, they are just what spring to mind I don't understand for the life of me how I make money from it and other people struggle. That's why I started the thread in the first place because I learnt it on FF, used my own knowledge and experience to adapt it and then started trading it and just saw reams and reams of people coming and going and not getting anywhere and I thought "OK, look, I'll show you how I approach it and that should clear things up"...maybe it did for some people...that's what I hope.

 

[Glad All Over]

WOW Tom,

THANKYOU. I'm not a trader ... yet ... I hope to be one day, in a small way, I was and am still hoping to be one.

I have been touched by your email / message ... I am very new here ... so I'm not sure of the terminology.

I DO want to make money without having to go to work .... however, I don't want to do it at the expense of my family, & life in general.

THANKYOU for the forewarning. I shall look after family & friends emotionaly 1st & foremost.

Cheers

P.S. I can't seem to get rid of the emoticon ... so take no note of it

 

[montmorencyt2w]

Tom, maybe you should rename this thread "The fate of a teacher". You can lead a horse to the water, but you can't make it drink.

There are so many reasons, they are just what spring to mind I don't understand for the life of me how I make money from it and other people struggle. That's why I started the thread in the first place because I learnt it on FF, used my own knowledge and experience to adapt it and then started trading it and just saw reams and reams of people coming and going and not getting anywhere and I thought "OK, look, I'll show you how I approach it and that should clear things up"...maybe it did for some people...that's what I hope.

It did, but as you have said, we all learn at different speeds, and in addition, some of us need to unlearn a whole lot of baggage as well, which is different for all of us.

Furthermore, as you also say somewhere, we all have to make it our own, just as you made J16's method your own. I think it's that that takes the most time.

 

[moreinfo]

The other quality you need to develop is patience. Watch and follow the NB thread, Phil waits for the trade to come to him and there are times when he calls it a day as he sees no opportunities.
Satisfaction and acceptance is illustrated very well by danarm quite simply it is possible to make 40/50 points a day just by following Phil or Danarm and this can be done before the morning is out'

Hi everybody, I know that the thread is quite old, still hope it's ok to ask:
Who is Phil and Danarm and what does NB stands for (I can't find that thread).
Thanks!

Btw. Regarding Livermore, I think he left cca $5m when he committed suicide, which should be around $75m today if I'm not wrong, so you can't really call it a bankruptcy. The other side of the story is that he was diagnosed clinical depression for the most of his life.

 

[rawrschach]

Hi everybody, I know that the thread is quite old, still hope it's ok to ask:
Who is Phil and Danarm and what does NB stands for (I can't find that thread).
Thanks!

Btw. Regarding Livermore, I think he left cca $5m when he committed suicide, which should be around $75m today if I'm not wrong, so you can't really call it a bankruptcy. The other side of the story is that he was diagnosed clinical depression for the most of his life.

I believe Phil is currently living in the Congo being buttsecksed by a Gorilla.

A female Gorilla. There was never anything queer about old Phil.