Should vendors only be allowed to post a 'vendor section'

Should vendors only be allowed to post in a 'vendor section'

  • Yes

    Votes: 28 70.0%
  • No

    Votes: 12 30.0%

  • Total voters
    40
  • Poll closed .
I'm intrigued... new thread would be better though. Don't wanna derail.

@ choccy. please stop being a pr1ck... stop following me around too pls.
 
I'm intrigued...

here's a clue. Anyone who has been trading for 3+ years will know what I am talking about, you have been through the whole spectrum of emotions then slowly you start to get it, it's nothing to do with more market knowledge (that helps though), the majority of being a long term consistent profitable trader is all in the mind. The only way to get there is by experiencing these emotions and being honest with yourself - if you cannot do this then best walk away, in fact run. Of course some are slower, some are quicker, many pitfalls on the route await (indicator salesman etc.). Most don't make it.

Essentially if you don't trade you are not progressing towards anything. A very simple analogy would be driving. You can read all you want about it, watch videos, kick the tyres with other drivers but unless you actually drive you will never learn/progress.

but then you don't actually want to be a trader, or is that more bravado?

How about be honest with yourself and say 'I want to be a trader', open a demo futures account and commit to trading a couple of hours per day. If you get good you can stump up the margin to trade 1 contract FFS.

Just remember that line in Floored the movie where the guy says 'everytime you think you are fuc7ked', stop thinking and trade.
 
here's a clue. Anyone who has been trading for 3+ years will know what I am talking about, you have been through the whole spectrum of emotions then slowly you start to get it, it's nothing to do with more market knowledge (that helps though), the majority of being a long term consistent profitable trader is all in the mind. The only way to get there is by experiencing these emotions and being honest with yourself - if you cannot do this then best walk away, in fact run. Of course some are slower, some are quicker, many pitfalls on the route await (indicator salesman etc.). Most don't make it.

Essentially if you don't trade you are not progressing towards anything. A very simple analogy would be driving. You can read all you want about it, watch videos, kick the tyres with other drivers but unless you actually drive you will never learn/progress.

but then you don't actually want to be a trader, or is that more bravado?

How about be honest with yourself and say 'I want to be a trader', open a demo futures account and commit to trading a couple of hours per day. If you get good you can stump up the margin to trade 1 contract FFS.

Just remember that line in Floored the movie where the guy says 'everytime you think you are fuc7ked', stop thinking and trade.

Excellent post.
 
Agreed, good post CD!

I downright suck and don`t know wtf I`m doing half the time even if I say otherwise on T2W, but that doesn`t stop me from trying! You get good by doing, simple as that.
 
here's a clue. Anyone who has been trading for 3+ years will know what I am talking about, you have been through the whole spectrum of emotions then slowly you start to get it, it's nothing to do with more market knowledge (that helps though), the majority of being a long term consistent profitable trader is all in the mind. The only way to get there is by experiencing these emotions and being honest with yourself - if you cannot do this then best walk away, in fact run. Of course some are slower, some are quicker, many pitfalls on the route await (indicator salesman etc.). Most don't make it.

Essentially if you don't trade you are not progressing towards anything. A very simple analogy would be driving. You can read all you want about it, watch videos, kick the tyres with other drivers but unless you actually drive you will never learn/progress.

but then you don't actually want to be a trader, or is that more bravado?

How about be honest with yourself and say 'I want to be a trader', open a demo futures account and commit to trading a couple of hours per day. If you get good you can stump up the margin to trade 1 contract FFS.

Just remember that line in Floored the movie where the guy says 'everytime you think you are fuc7ked', stop thinking and trade.

addendum - open a futures demo account, pull up the ES, naked chart. select 1 hour per day that you are going to watch the market. Mark on key levels OHLC, pivots, key support and resistance. then watch when price is at those areas.

rinse and repeat.

contact profitable traders - get them to mentor you.

bye.

PS - do not listen to any vendors/salesman or you will put yourself back months/years
 
addendum - open a futures demo account, pull up the ES, naked chart. select 1 hour per day that you are going to watch the market. Mark on key levels OHLC, pivots, key support and resistance. then watch when price is at those areas.

rinse and repeat.

contact profitable traders - get them to mentor you.

bye.

PS - do not listen to any vendors/salesman or you will put yourself back months/years

Two questions. Are you a profiterole trader, if so, will you mentor me?
 
Two questions. Are you a profiterole trader, if so, will you mentor me?

Well I am green this year to date but I am not consistent. I want to get to the stage where I am at least intra week green, I can take a daily loss but not a weekly loss.

I am not qualified to mentor and quite frankly I wouldn't make a good teacher. My advice is if you are looking for a mentor I would find someone who has been green for the last 5 years.
 
I'm intrigued... new thread would be better though. Don't wanna derail.

This really for me belongs in the psychology / mindset / whatever end of things, in other words it's about your ability to apply your approach in practice, when you're unsure and under pressure and wondering whether you should be doing this and all that.

I said that I thought you were incorrect. I shouldn't have said that, because it depends on the individual. Perhaps I should have said that in general it is unlikely to be beneficial to view it as semantics, that in general it is not helpful to think "price is going to go up when you get long".

There are few aspects to this as I see it. The first is this:

There are three possibilities when you enter a trade. Price will go for you, against you, or do nothing. Two of these outcomes will cost you money because of commissions and or spread. Now, over time you may have an 'edge' (awful term) but in any individual trade it is nonsense to assume that the chance of that particular trade going your way is 60% or 65% or whatever your long-term hit rate is. Price can do anything at any time and nothing has predictive power.

So you have 3 possible outcomes, two of which will cost you money. It is therefore reasonable to assume when you enter a trade that it will lose (loose). But it is worse than that. Say you trade YM and a trip costs you $5. To make 10 ticks profit the market has to go 10 ticks plus a tick for the commission and a tick for spread. To lose 10 ticks' worth - well, you know this already.

The moment I enter a trade I am down spread and commission. So every time I put on a trade I accept I'm opening a drawdown as things stand.

Anyway, leave that aside for the moment. Say I have a good method with a phenomenal (although crap to most vendorscum) strike rate of 75%. On average 3 out of 4 trades hit, assuming I execute my method properly.

Of course, this doesn't mean over any given period I'm going to get 3 hits for each miss. Runs of 5,6 7 and more losses can easily happen. This doesn't matter because over time my 'edge' (ugh!) will play out.

AS LONG AS I EXECUTE PROPERLY - this is crucial. Because if I allow myself to expect any given trade to go my way (because the 'set up' is so good, or some other utter boll0cks like that) I start to doubt myself and my method. I think "That was a great set up, it should have gone my way" and get upset that it didn't. I take another, and another and they lose (loose). The next one comes along and I can't face another loss (loos) and of course that's the one that wipes the other three and gives me a couple of risk profit into the bargain. But I'm sitting on the sidelines with nothing but my c0ck in my hand.

Trading ultimately is about probabilities. That's one of the many reasons that I used to laugh at old Swanny and call him Walter, because he used to go on about being a "consistently profitable trader". If you want consistent, go work for the council - they'll pay you each month, no matter how bad you f uck up. A trader - even one hitting something phenomenal like 75% - is going to have losing (loosing) months EVEN WHEN HE DOES EVERYTHING RIGHT.

You just need to be able to accept this calmly and carry on going. Because otherwise the death spiral starts - you get angry, you get upset, you take revenge and 'get my money back' trades, and before you know it your account is as knackered as a brass's fandango.

Now, practical once again. This is all easy to say, but in the heat of things it's very different. You have to know it in the core of your being, in your gut, in your motherf ucking balls, otherwise it will desert you when you need it. I train myself to have this attitude by assuming that every trade will be a loser (looser) beacuse I can guarantee that that will happen (at least temporarily) because at the very least I'm down spread and commission from the off. So until something happens and something changes, that is the situation with every trade.

There's a ton of other stuff related to this, for example (probability game again) you just can't place any emphasis on any single trade because it's meaningless. Again, this attitude of mine means that I don't, either now when I'm not trading or after the third or fourth loss in a row off great set ups.

Or if you expect the market to go up when you go long, you might be less ready to bail when it goes down. Because you're long, you have an edge, and it 'should' go up. So you hang on instead of bailing.

I could go on about this all day and can give a lot more examples and scenarios if you want, but hopefully you get where I'm coming from. For me, it basically boils down to having the most appropriate attitude and mental state, and taking this approach helps me achieve and maintain that mental state.
 
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Well I am green this year to date but I am not consistent. I want to get to the stage where I am at least intra week green, I can take a daily loss but not a weekly loss.

I am not qualified to mentor and quite frankly I wouldn't make a good teacher. Personally I would not want to be mentored by someone who wasn't green for the last 5 years.

That's what I expected Choccie. It's so hard to make money trading that finding someone who is profitable is almost an impossible task, obviously there are many 'profitable' mentors to choose from :loadofw@nksmiley: but finding a profitable trader is a needle in a haystack. One of the hardest things to overcome is actually having the belief that it is actually possible to make money trading with all the negativity out there on the internet, possibly one of the biggest benefits of finding the 'needle' would be someone able to display their ablity to make consistent profits and quash any doubts that a newb would have.
 
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That's what I expected Choccie. It's so hard to make money trading that finding someone who is profitable is almost an impossible task, obviously there are many 'profitable' mentors to choose from :loadofw@nksmiley: but finding a profitable trader is a needle in a haystack. One of the hardest things to overcome is actually having the belief that it is actually possible to make money trading with all the negativity out there on the internet, possibly one of the biggest benefits of finding the 'needle' would be someone able to display their ablity to make consistent profits and quash any doubts that a newb would have.

Hey 212.

Actually it's easy to find profitable traders, they are typically trading at IB's, hedge funds, prop trading firms. There are also profitable traders on T2W and other forums however they tend to lurk. I would say if you are looking for a target rich environment of profitable traders you best 'in' might be a prop firm as these traders tend to be independent. Clearly dialing up a trader at a bank and asking for his time is going to be futile.

Also no pro trader is going to post up their statement on a public internet forum, there is no upside for them and also that would cause a huge firestorm. Believe me there are people out there crushing it day in day out.
 
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Say you trade YM and a trip costs you $5. To make 10 ticks profit the market has to go 10 ticks plus a tick for the commission and a tick for spread. To lose 10 ticks' worth - well, you know this already.

sure there is the spread but if a trader is good they can use a bit of tradecraft to hit into the market as it leaves that level, so the trade can be reversed for scratch, you can also play queue jump so you are hit 1st at a level, knowing the level is likely to hold enabling you to effectively not pay the spread. I take your point though. commission are more critical for certain strategies, the traders at the big US prop houses (eg jump futures) pay sub $1 for a RT, I was chatting to one who has 44c a round turn all in.

A trader - even one hitting something phenomenal like 75% - is going to have losing (loosing) months EVEN WHEN HE DOES EVERYTHING RIGHT.

I know a handful of pro traders who haven't had a losing month for donkey's years. If you have a 75% edge and are able to apply it several times per day it is extremely unlikely that you will have a losing month.
 
I would suggest splitting traders into 2 basic camps. Both of which can be profitable or not.

The " art " traders and the "science " traders. The former make their judgement on looking at charts mainly while the latter use maths algorithms. The former is harder to teach - you can either see it or not.

The newbie in a rush to make mega bucks is usually disappointed after a few months. Being retired on adequate income is probably the best scenario. Plenty of time and not under pressure to be profitable.

The young bucks can rage and fume all they like, it will do them little good.

Slowly slowly catchee monkey
 
sure there is the spread but if a trader is good they can use a bit of tradecraft to hit into the market as it leaves that level, so the trade can be reversed for scratch, you can also play queue jump so you are hit 1st at a level, knowing the level is likely to hold enabling you to effectively not pay the spread. I take your point though. commission are more critical for certain strategies, the traders at the big US prop houses (eg jump futures) pay sub $1 for a RT, I was chatting to one who has 44c a round turn all in.



I know a handful of pro traders who haven't had a losing month for donkey's years. If you have a 75% edge and are able to apply it several times per day it is extremely unlikely that you will have a losing month.

I always use market orders.

Nice for those people that you know, but it doesn't really affect anything. A lot of guys have busted out on extremely unlikely, but again that's irrelevant.

Aiming for consistency really is another bad thing to be honest (because it's artificial, and irrelevant to profitability), if you let it affect what you do, and in the end I think these things always do affect you. Different I suppose if you really can't handle not being consistent, and it's legitimate to give up some return for consistency, but the need for it is not generally going to be a good trait.

I don't even look at monthly returns now, it's just too short a period.
 
This really for me belongs in the psychology / mindset / whatever end of things, in other words it's about your ability to apply your approach in practice, when you're unsure and under pressure and wondering whether you should be doing this and all that.

I said that I thought you were incorrect. I shouldn't have said that, because it depends on the individual. Perhaps I should have said that in general it is unlikely to be beneficial to view it as semantics, that in general it is not helpful to think "price is going to go up when you get long".

There are few aspects to this as I see it. The first is this:

There are three possibilities when you enter a trade. Price will go for you, against you, or do nothing. Two of these outcomes will cost you money because of commissions and or spread. Now, over time you may have an 'edge' (awful term) but in any individual trade it is nonsense to assume that the chance of that particular trade going your way is 60% or 65% or whatever your long-term hit rate is. Price can do anything at any time and nothing has predictive power.

So you have 3 possible outcomes, two of which will cost you money. It is therefore reasonable to assume when you enter a trade that it will lose (loose). But it is worse than that. Say you trade YM and a trip costs you $5. To make 10 ticks profit the market has to go 10 ticks plus a tick for the commission and a tick for spread. To lose 10 ticks' worth - well, you know this already.

The moment I enter a trade I am down spread and commission. So every time I put on a trade I accept I'm opening a drawdown as things stand.

Anyway, leave that aside for the moment. Say I have a good method with a phenomenal (although crap to most vendorscum) strike rate of 75%. On average 3 out of 4 trades hit, assuming I execute my method properly.

Of course, this doesn't mean over any given period I'm going to get 3 hits for each miss. Runs of 5,6 7 and more losses can easily happen. This doesn't matter because over time my 'edge' (ugh!) will play out.

AS LONG AS I EXECUTE PROPERLY - this is crucial. Because if I allow myself to expect any given trade to go my way (because the 'set up' is so good, or some other utter boll0cks like that) I start to doubt myself and my method. I think "That was a great set up, it should have gone my way" and get upset that it didn't. I take another, and another and they lose (loose). The next one comes along and I can't face another loss (loos) and of course that's the one that wipes the other three and gives me a couple of risk profit into the bargain. But I'm sitting on the sidelines with nothing but my c0ck in my hand.

Trading ultimately is about probabilities. That's one of the many reasons that I used to laugh at old Swanny and call him Walter, because he used to go on about being a "consistently profitable trader". If you want consistent, go work for the council - they'll pay you each month, no matter how bad you f uck up. A trader - even one hitting something phenomenal like 75% - is going to have losing (loosing) months EVEN WHEN HE DOES EVERYTHING RIGHT.

You just need to be able to accept this calmly and carry on going. Because otherwise the death spiral starts - you get angry, you get upset, you take revenge and 'get my money back' trades, and before you know it your account is as knackered as a brass's fandango.

Now, practical once again. This is all easy to say, but in the heat of things it's very different. You have to know it in the core of your being, in your gut, in your motherf ucking balls, otherwise it will desert you when you need it. I train myself to have this attitude by assuming that every trade will be a loser (looser) beacuse I can guarantee that that will happen (at least temporarily) because at the very least I'm down spread and commission from the off. So until something happens and something changes, that is the situation with every trade.

There's a ton of other stuff related to this, for example (probability game again) you just can't place any emphasis on any single trade because it's meaningless. Again, this attitude of mine means that I don't, either now when I'm not trading or after the third or fourth loss in a row off great set ups.

Or if you expect the market to go up when you go long, you might be less ready to bail when it goes down. Because you're long, you have an edge, and it 'should' go up. So you hang on instead of bailing.

I could go on about this all day and can give a lot more examples and scenarios if you want, but hopefully you get where I'm coming from. For me, it basically boils down to having the most appropriate attitude and mental state, and taking this approach helps me achieve and maintain that mental state.

But I don't think that's really made the point. Because what you've said is that you're expecting to lose, rather than expecting to win. You're still expecting/forecasting/predicting, you're just doing it in the other direction.
 
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