Self taught? Impossible!

[The Leopard]

LOL @ this thread....

C_V asked a simple question that no-one seems to have been able to comprehend...

He didn't ask if you'd buy a 5k course, he asked if you'd buy a course that was WORTH 5k.

Very big difference.

It would be almost impossible to put an accurate value on such a course. But if one did exist that was worth £5000, it would almost certainly be worth £500,000.

And there are plenty of people that would be willing to pay for it. And that would be a very sensible decision.

Obviously, such a course is unlikely to be marketed to the general public and absolute beginners for a few thousand ala the Saghbooby method.

EDIT:

I think this is something that newbies (the target of almost all courses) need to realize. If a course can teach you to be profitable, it is likely worth a small fortune, and it would be foolish to sell it for less.

You mentioned on Robster's ES thread (I think) that you aim for 2 points a day. A lot of people might think that is pathetic, given that so many forex gurus manage hundreds of pips a week.

However, if someone could teach you to average 2 points a day, that's 500 points a year. 1 contract 1 point is 50 bucks. $25,000 trading 1 contract.

One can trade 100 contracts easily on ES. 100 times $25,000 is 2 and a half million dollars a year. TWO AND A HALF MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR. That is actually not bad, really.

So if someone could teach you to net just 2 points a day, it would be worth a damn sight more than 5000 bucks.

 

[alphadude]

It would be almost impossible to put an accurate value on such a course. But if one did exist that was worth £5000, it would almost certainly be worth £500,000.

And there are plenty of people that would be willing to pay for it. And that would be a very sensible decision.

Obviously, such a course is unlikely to be marketed to the general public and absolute beginners for a few thousand ala the Saghbooby method.

packaging the course with a cruise to the Bahamas makes it more worth

 

[DionysusToast]

It would be almost impossible to put an accurate value on such a course. But if one did exist that was worth £5000, it would almost certainly be worth £500,000.

Quite.. The only way it could be worth JUST $5k would be if the amount of money you could put in is finite and the amount you have to trade with has no impact on the amount you can make...

And there are plenty of people that would be willing to pay for it. And that would be a very sensible decision.

Obviously, such a course is unlikely to be marketed to the general public and absolute beginners for a few thousand ala the Saghbooby method.

So we come back to cost & value. The cost of a course is determined not by the value but by something else. For example, the amount of money the punters have...

 

[alphadude]

Quite.. The only way it could be worth JUST $5k would be if the amount of money you could put in is finite and the amount you have to trade with has no impact on the amount you can make...



So we come back to cost & value. The cost of a course is determined not by the value but by something else. For example, the amount of money the punters have...

indeed; textbook pricing theory indicates that the most effective way to make $$ is by studying how much the punters are willing to pay.

i shall add to that theory: also on how gullible the punter is. some argue that if the *educator* relies on gullibility; then it amounts to fraud.

don't forget; these *educators* are not selling courses; they are selling *hope*.

the real question become: how to price hope?

 

[new_trader]

don't forget; these *educators* are not selling courses; they are selling *hope*.

the real question become: how to price hope?

Exactly. The idea that you judge the value a course *after* the fact is why system vendors probably get most of the business. Sell a system for $5000 and *if* it makes money then it was worth it wasn't it? I'd say that majority of punters don't want to learn how to trade, what they want is for somebody to tell them exactly when to buy and exactly when to sell, or better yet, an automated 'system' that does it all for them. If you haven't got the brains to figure out what is what from everything that is already available, then going on a course is not going to help because you obviously aren't suited to the profession.

 

[DionysusToast]

If you haven't got the brains to figure out what is what from everything that is already available, then going on a course is not going to help because you obviously aren't suited to the profession.

So why do prop shops train people?

Why do banks do the same?

Surely by your logic they should just sit people in a room with the internet and surf their way to profits...

 

[alphadude]

The difference with prop shops and banks; is that you are getting the course from the horse's mouth. it is priceless. that is absolutely gold. Consider yourself lukcy if you are trained by one of those.

problem is some *educators* such as Sagbooby; pretends to be a *prop shop*; and even goes a miles ahead and train turtles

 

[the hare]

So why do prop shops train people?

Why do banks do the same?

Because they have a business model that allows them to do that.

Teaching someone to participate as a member of a group is not the same as teaching someone how to trade independantly.

 

[DionysusToast]

But according to N_T - anyone that can't just teach themselves, is useless anyway. So why don't prop shops just go after people like N_T that just read Socrates' posts and became a profitable trader?

 

[DionysusToast]

Because they have a business model that allows them to do that.

Teaching someone to participate as a member of a group is not the same as teaching someone how to trade independantly.

So it's not because it's a skill that requires some training,then???

 

[the hare]

So it's not because it's a skill that requires some training,then???

I could take 20 people, teach them my method, and I assure you that 12 months later, IF they'd followed the rules, then as a group, they'd be profitable.

I dont have the massive advantages that a bank has when trading on behalf of their clients, and I dont have the advantages of low transaction costs enjoyed by the larger prop firms.

Is it a skill ? No
Does it require training ?, possibly a little, but what doesnt apart from maybe breathing ? it certainly doesnt require much training, although I suspect that the more training given in explaining why the model works, would result in better performance, and less people being fired !

 

[alphadude]

But according to N_T - anyone that can't just teach themselves, is useless anyway. So why don't prop shops just go after people like N_T that just read Socrates' posts and became a profitable trader?

prop shops; have the objective of making money. they hire two types of people:
- graduates: to be trained by the shop; before giving them any capital
- PMs (profitable traders with proven track records): they don't care how you end up profitable trader. Whether you are self taught or not.

As mentioned earlier in this thread; the definition of "self-taught" is a bit misleading here.

if you read a book from a successful trader; and follow his/her system or a variant of it; do you consider yourself "self-taught" or not?

in my opinion; you are not "self-taught".

Learning from mentors; can take many shapes; on the job training, face to face training, blog, book, forums, emails, phone calls..etc.

so in reality; you will not find anyone who is self-taught nowadays. Unless this person does not use the internet, and does not buy books or courses.

 

[the hare]

Will you make them call you 'The Macdady' and smack em about if they give you any lip .

Yes, almost certainly

The only thing that I'd do differently than the great Mr Baghdaddy, is that I'd probably fund them, and I wouldnt waste time teaching morons

 

[alphadude]

Yes, almost certainly

The only thing that I'd do differently than the great Mr Baghdaddy, is that I'd probably fund them, and I wouldnt waste time teaching morons

you can always throw punches at the morons

I suggest we ask Sagbooby to change the title of his upcoming Fxstreet webinar to "How and when to punch your moron employees"

 

[tar]

Like soccer profitable trading requires skills , training will help here if you have the skills , is the training needed to become profitable i dont think so and i dont think you can make someone profitable if he doesn't have the skills , the reason is simple : there is no such thing as a holy grail ie : all setups and trading methods works until it doesn't , it is so stupid to think that there is a secret method if you learned you will become profitable ...

 

[counter_violent]

I could take 20 people, teach them my method, and I assure you that 12 months later, IF they'd followed the rules, then as a group, they'd be profitable.

I dont have the massive advantages that a bank has when trading on behalf of their clients, and I dont have the advantages of low transaction costs enjoyed by the larger prop firms.

Is it a skill ? No
Does it require training ?, possibly a little, but what doesnt apart from maybe breathing ? it certainly doesnt require much training, although I suspect that the more training given in explaining why the model works, would result in better performance, and less people being fired !

Will this be part of the offering.....if so, sign me up !

I'll wager that those fortunate enough to see a fellow pupil gagged, tied to a chair, and having a bag placed over his head will treasure that particular experience for a lifetime. Similarly seeing fellow pupils locked in cupboards etc must be a truly memorable experience,it probably rates alongside seeing the taj mahal or visiting Antartica.

I'd argue that theres definately an element of entertainment involved, although 5K is probably a bit on the steep side.

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

I could take 20 people, teach them my method, and I assure you that 12 months later, IF they'd followed the rules, then as a group, they'd be profitable.

I dont have the massive advantages that a bank has when trading on behalf of their clients, and I dont have the advantages of low transaction costs enjoyed by the larger prop firms.

Is it a skill ? No
Does it require training ?, possibly a little, but what doesnt apart from maybe breathing ? it certainly doesnt require much training, although I suspect that the more training given in explaining why the model works, would result in better performance, and less people being fired !

will it include a trip around all the bars and whorehouses in malta lol.

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

Because they have a business model that allows them to do that.

Teaching someone to participate as a member of a group is not the same as teaching someone how to trade independantly.

and that ladies and gents hits the nail on the head. a smart chap is hare.

 

[neil]

I loose :whistling

But he could teach you to spell- "LOSER"
ie. you lose makes you a loser )

 

[alphadude]

Will this be part of the offering.....if so, sign me up !

I'll wager that those fortunate enough to see a fellow pupil gagged, tied to a chair, and having a bag placed over his head will treasure that particular experience for a lifetime. Similarly seeing fellow pupils locked in cupboards etc must be a truly memorable experience,it probably rates alongside seeing the taj mahal or visiting Antartica.

I'd argue that theres definately an element of entertainment involved, although 5K is probably a bit on the steep side.

nothing compared to Sagbooby experience.

Getting slapped by the world foremost expert in price behavior; in front of the turtles is priceless