reminiscence of(yet) a (novice)trader

[aag100]

off to do some box jumps

 

[aag100]

todays efforts

11.39 short 6812.4 closed 11.51 6811.4 +1
a good trade,however was taken on mobile.i take that back,wasnt a good trade at all.on my mobile app(a different broker to who i actually trade with) it was showing a trade with 8 point risk yet on sitting at my desk and looking at it on my brokers chart it was a 'jezebel' trade.so i had a stop and was wondering if i would be executing it if the time came.however it went my way quickly,a quick +7.
now im thinking heres where i take the odd few and then watch it continue how i wanted so i hesitate and im now + 5,+4....watching it reverse.risk is now 5 and i think i'll let it play out but then i think im on god damn mobile and shouldnt even be trading and how pissed id be taking a loss rather than even a small win so closing out +1.
would have closed out about -2-3 if i let it play out.

2nd effort 12.32 short 6814.5 closed 12.37 6812.8 +1.7
(once again on mobile ) with risk of 6.i actually put in a hard stop of 6 for this(only cos battery was low!) and when it gave me a bit,i took it rather than not know how it might turn out if i lost connection.
would have taken me out -2 if left.

3rd effort. 12.49 short 6815.8 closed 12.53 6815 +0.8. one of my best trades! risk 2 points and actually prepared to pull the trigger.and then when i should have and got out -2,i didnt.i didnt want to get out at the top of the candle on it retracing i thought fk it and closed it as i was now on the wrong side of the trade without a stop.and as it happens,it fell another 10!

3 trades in the space of 90mins.i should be looking for 3 good trades in 9hrs!

 

[aag100]

the last effort of the day

13.49 short 6807.2 closed 14.01 6806.8 risking less than 2 taken out in minutes but held thinking losing 2 isnt so bad considering ive lost -20-200,maybe i should give it more time.goes to -3 and im actually going to enjoy kill it and be done with but it comes back and i get out as im on the wrong side of the trade without a stop.now getting less concerned with 'but what if it keeps going your way'

need to make it more of a feature to look to get out once im on the wrong side rather than holding in the hope it might come back my way.most of my disasters have happened because of this,ive wanted to profit after holding a loss for hours and then not getting out for minus a few but seeing it go back the other way for hundreds and then compounding it by adding in revenge.
so now there will be less revenge and should atleast lead to smaller losses.

 

[aag100]

todays debacle if not down right disaster(and i dont mean trump)

1)11.54 short 6793.8 closed 15.38 6868.8 -75
2)11.57 short 6799 closed 15.35 6868.8 -69.8
3)14.35 short 6891.8 closed 14.39 6882 +9.8
4)14.46 short 6890.5 closed 14.52 6889.8 +0.7 net -134.3!

no prep done and trades 1&2 taken on mobile! trade 1 did have a risk of 10 points and then i add a second with combined risk of 15 points.
stops are quickly taken and ofcourse i dont want to close out.it reverses and im even up a point or two so i make the first mistake of holding on fooled into thinking it could keep going my way.then running it up to -40.how good would i have felt cutting at -15 or even in the black?
i bear the pain and get a second chance to get out about -5.now risk showing that it could take me back to -40.debating what i should do,it reverses -10,-20 and it has me by the balls again and back to -40 on its way to -100.i get a 3rd chance to get out -80 but ofcourse once again i havent learned a fking thing and want to trade myself out of it.and onto -200
i also realise theres a ftse dividend of 18 and definetely dont want to be holding into the close.
AND THEN im dragged off to baby sit! fuming inside and trying to not show it,especially to the child,i watch on mobile as it begins to come back my way(at this point ive only got 2 positions) and from -180 i finally decide to close out at -145 with my battery running low and enjoy a few minutes in the company of my 1yr old niece.relieved that it didnt go 35 points the other way instead.

got back last weeks -80 and now given it all back plus some in a fking day.
im still gambling,unable to accept a smaller loss.once again left to lick my wounds because of my own mistakes.still better than if i had got out at the worst time.
i will get tired of writing the same mistakes before you lot are tired of reading them!

 

[darktone]

Have you u read trading in the zone?

 

[Dowser]

Have you u read trading in the zone?

+1 for 'Trading in the Zone'. Got it for nowt when I signed up with Audible for a month's free trial.

 

[aag100]

Have you u read trading in the zone?

trading in the zone-that zone is just beyond insanity
i have a copy of it somewhere.not read it fully.probably read the first few pages as i do all books,get bored and forget about it.
i dont think books can do much.once you know how to place a trade,that is all you need to know and then you have to find your own strategy.reading books after this point just gives diminishing returns.read by all means,reading maketh a full man.you will learn things that someone has toiled hard for but it will not translate into making you a better trader.
could have been out -15 or +2 or -40 or -5 or -100 or -80 or -200 ,finally getting out -135( -125 net,after 1 or 2 other scalps) after 3hrs of pain or i could still have been in it now 7hrs later running it another -200 or so.
i sabotage myself.i'll get this back over the next few days and then be ready to give it all back in one day again.
what i try to do is make £100 and withdraw it,to build confidence.to show to myself i can do it and this year ive been successful a number of times and numerous other times ive got it to about +60/80 and then something creeps in to fk it up!
todays 2 losses of 75 and 70- what if i had walked away at -10,-20 twice would have still saved 100 points.-40 would have been easier to get back that -140.
but still,-140 is easier to get back than -340
so ive got to just keep refining,reducing my losses,the strike rate will take care of the rest once i first atleast stop making those what should be easily rectified mistakes.

 

[superfrost]

I found this thread tonight, and have just finished reading through it - every one of the 61 pages, although some parts just skimmed through. Having read countless threads and journals on trading and forex trading in particular this thread immediately struck me as different. It's rare in itself to find a thread that keeps going(even accelerates) for so long(at least at the forums I've used). But to see this endurance combined with so mediocre/bad results was really thought provoking to me.

I am not yet sure what to think of this whole thing. But the main thing that struck me when reading the last part was how you can be motivated enough to keep going so long and yet not show more discipline - especially with regards to setting and using stops. Would probably be very interesting to see some of your charts and/or live trades. Charts is one thing I think the thread is missing in general, as it makes for a quick way to get an idea of the trading you've been involved with on any particular day.

Will be back to see what happens here

 

[aag100]

I found this thread tonight, and have just finished reading through it - every one of the 61 pages, although some parts just skimmed through. Having read countless threads and journals on trading and forex trading in particular this thread immediately struck me as different. It's rare in itself to find a thread that keeps going(even accelerates) for so long(at least at the forums I've used). But to see this endurance combined with so mediocre/bad results was really thought provoking to me.

I am not yet sure what to think of this whole thing. But the main thing that struck me when reading the last part was how you can be motivated enough to keep going so long and yet not show more discipline - especially with regards to setting and using stops. Would probably be very interesting to see some of your charts and/or live trades. Charts is one thing I think the thread is missing in general, as it makes for a quick way to get an idea of the trading you've been involved with on any particular day.

Will be back to see what happens here

i said read it and tell me what you think in the private message that you sent me!
but doesnt matter,maybe better here for all to see.
its about 5am and ive been woken up by the rain tapping on my window so rather than toss and turn half asleep till about 9 and then finally get out of bed around 10,have a cup of tea,watch the tv/social media(usually news) basically idling away and mulling the markets over in my mind and wondering what they'll bring,will it be a long slow boring day taking 5-10 points (45% chance) or one of those days of where i let it get out of hand and then after enduring hours of pain,i manage to finally get out breakeven or even with a point or two(45% chance) or will it be one of those disastrous days where i totally lose control and could be hundreds down(10% chance)
so about 2hrs of this and im ready to sit down at my desk and look at the markets,unless ive taken a trade on my mobile already! ive either scalped the odd point on mobile or its getting out of hand and thats whats prompted me to get to the desk and have a better look!
and by uk close or even sooner(2-3pm) id feel like ive been embroiled long enough and think its enough for the day
thats pretty much been my trading day for the last few months.half arsed effortand little discipline so the results have been not mediocre but pathetic at best and not bad but disastrous at worst.
man this would turn into a long story with all the meanderings i need to write to give fuller explanations
now what else do i need to write in response to this....
endurance(or stubbornness)/different/rare....mild positives-been in a fortunate position to still be going....or is it
motivation.....or madness
yes could use some charts,would spruce the thread up a bit.

so superfrost you joined in 2012.in your message, you have traded on/off and had been part of a skype group thats wound down and now your back to make your fortune in the markets again.good luck.
and yes i need to look at my discipline/stop issues

 

[barjon]

....................and yes i need to look at my discipline/stop issues.................

It's a bit like stopping smoking which is damn hard work and probably doomed to failure unless you really, really want to stop.

So when you're really convinced it's the way to go and really want to do it that way it'll be easy peasy. Until then...................................

 

[Fugazsy]

and yes i need to look at my discipline/stop issues

If I may say, discipline is a must in trading and you will not find it by acquiring more knowledge in TA, FA or what ever....

The problem is: most of us are made of specific psychological static patterns behavior and those patterns do not marry well with the markets which is fluid in pattern terms.

The only way to navigate with more fluidity with the market is to change our behavior which is not easy because they are fuse with our psychological makeup.

But with hard work and commitment we can change our behavior, while we do that we will learn more about our self and then all aspect sof the market will be much more clear.

Some reading I suggest in regards:

The Investor quotient by Jake Bernstein, I hope you will have a joyful trip with it..

 

[aag100]

It's a bit like stopping smoking which is damn hard work and probably doomed to failure unless you really, really want to stop.

So when you're really convinced it's the way to go and really want to do it that way it'll be easy peasy. Until then...................................

It certainly is an addiction.
To beat other addictions you have to reduce your exposure to it or go cold turkey.to win at this addiction you have to keep returning to it.
I recently heard of a distant relative with a drug problem who they tried to make go cold turkey.long story short he became suicidal.
..... where was I going with this...I'll come back to it

 

[superfrost]

Hi again aag

First off my apologies if you feel I brought something up publicly which should have been in a new private message. To me what I wrote was just immediate reflections on your journey so far, for which I didn't see any problem in sharing with other thread readers. When I first contacted you I had assumed you were having better resulted purely based on the fact that your thread hadn't died out - which I still think is admirable.

I think two things would bring some clarity to the thread:

1) Charts(as mentioned previously)
2) Some (more) totals. To me some of the weekly ones you did were confusing to head because columns had collapsed and because you often didn't specify an instrument and units.

That's for the results and setups. For the psychology I think what makes me take up this thread is it's honesty.

 

[superfrost]

If I may say, discipline is a must in trading and you will not find it by acquiring more knowledge in TA, FA or what ever....

I completely agree with this statement. Interesting part then is how those thought patterns you further describe can (most effectively) be changed. Having studied psychology for three years, it is my opinion that there isn't a quick fix for facilitating a such fix. Some books will say these changes will come about rather automatically if you just keep doing something for 10 or 21 days, but that seems to be a little exaggerated in the pop psychology. I think trading experience and a commitment to set stop losses at the time of entry is much more efficient than looking towards theories and textbooks on these matters.

Two interconnected things I find are often central with the problem of letting losers turn big:
1) how losing trades are thought of
2) how one's ego is in relation to trading

On the second point one could of course read countless textbooks, but to me a dutch poker player said it pretty well once when asked as to possibility of still being good at and making money at poker. Paraphrased he said that if you're willing to learn and make changes, and can keep your ego form setting you back, there would be no reason to not expect eventual success. Nothing groundbreaking or 'deep', but very simple and very true - for poker and for trading.

 

[Fugazsy]

I completely agree with this statement. Interesting part then is how those thought patterns you further describe can (most effectively) be changed. Having studied psychology for three years, it is my opinion that there isn't a quick fix for facilitating a such fix. Some books will say these changes will come about rather automatically if you just keep doing something for 10 or 21 days, but that seems to be a little exaggerated in the pop psychology. I think trading experience and a commitment to set stop losses at the time of entry is much more efficient than looking towards theories and textbooks on these matters.

Two interconnected things I find are often central with the problem of letting losers turn big:
1) how losing trades are thought of
2) how one's ego is in relation to trading

On the second point one could of course read countless textbooks, but to me a dutch poker player said it pretty well once when asked as to possibility of still being good at and making money at poker. Paraphrased he said that if you're willing to learn and make changes, and can keep your ego form setting you back, there would be no reason to not expect eventual success. Nothing groundbreaking or 'deep', but very simple and very true - for poker and for trading.

Good post.

Changes can be made, taken one step at the time monitoring in a objective manner and shifting your response from the stimulus, but you can only change your responses by being aware which also initiate the understating of yourself.

Between stimulus and responses which produces consequence sit also perceptions which can also derail you from doing it rightly.

A trader gets reward in numerous way from the market, mostly very addictive, this addictions will created further negative behaviors, often it is quite impossible to free yourself from them, the market will pay you but in a negative way.

Anyway you should look at it, there is a lot of psychology in it from Freud to behaviorists, he compares FA to Freud and TA to behaviorists.

I found it fascinating, it needs not only to be read but taken as an opportunity to have a look inside trough the eye of a trader.

 

[aag100]

Hi again aag

First off my apologies if you feel I brought something up publicly which should have been in a new private message. To me what I wrote was just immediate reflections on your journey so far, for which I didn't see any problem in sharing with other thread readers. When I first contacted you I had assumed you were having better resulted purely based on the fact that your thread hadn't died out - which I still think is admirable.

I think two things would bring some clarity to the thread:

1) Charts(as mentioned previously)
2) Some (more) totals. To me some of the weekly ones you did were confusing to head because columns had collapsed and because you often didn't specify an instrument and units.

That's for the results and setups. For the psychology I think what makes me take up this thread is it's honesty.

not apologies necessary.but lets be pedantic.trading is about analysis,analysis,analysis and analysis to an extremely anal level.
so if you have private messaged me,i reply to you in private message then i would assume your response if any would be....TADAH... by private message.it would be akin to maybe sexting a girl who opens it up to a group chat.
i liked your reply on the second reading.made me think WTF am i doing and have been doing.
on first reading,i know what another fellow must have thought when i messaged him.he did not take it well at all.i think he's european with a different sense of humour.
i think i should explain the joke.
he has a blog.with a few more years experience,even has a shared office and has had mentorship over the years but he still seems to be struggling like i do.
he writes about his talks to hedgefunds.to which i suggested,they use it an an exercise in what not to do!
it was said tongue in cheek with some truth and my hope is maybe it jolted him into thinking deeper and thinking i'll show that $hit.i also added some advise which he may or may not have appreciated but its time i took my own advice which i'll share later.
i'll come to your point 2)first.i didnt specify instrument but if you trade and had a little pheriperal vision you would easily work out its the ftse and yes the collapsed
columns didnt help and i couldnt be bothered to rewrite it all but with a little effort they can still be deciphered.
1)ive not worked out how to add charts but then ive decided against it as i no longer want to give my strategy away.what will i have left to licence to soros for forex,icahn for stocks,rodgers for commodities,gross for bonds and i dont want to put up half charts without my indicators.

i had been looking for someone to work with me,to join me on the journey but it seems people only want to join you once you are succesful.
and yes psychology(i hate that word,took me forever to write it without a red line appearing underneath it!) is what i know is now what i need to focus on next.
its crunch time and i just need to flick the switch but i dont know whats holding me back from accepting stops.i think i'll be on top of it by the end of the year if not sooner

 

[aag100]

another point mentioned 'poker'
thats exactly what i picture.those players throwing a little into the pot and not caring about it.
yet i do.thats what i need to change.
i wanted to learn how to play the game,bought a dvd and cards and then realised if i want to be good at that,i would need to put in hours and would be better off just trying to improve at trading.

 

[aag100]

If I may say, discipline is a must in trading and you will not find it by acquiring more knowledge in TA, FA or what ever....

The problem is: most of us are made of specific psychological static patterns behavior and those patterns do not marry well with the markets which is fluid in pattern terms.

The only way to navigate with more fluidity with the market is to change our behavior which is not easy because they are fuse with our psychological makeup.

But with hard work and commitment we can change our behavior, while we do that we will learn more about our self and then all aspect sof the market will be much more clear.

Some reading I suggest in regards:

The Investor quotient by Jake Bernstein, I hope you will have a joyful trip with it..

i know what i need to do.it wont come from TA/FA or books.i need to act on it.

 

[Signalcalc]

You need to be trading demo until you get your act together. FXCM allow multiple demos, you could trade different variations of your style, the discipline of doing that will keep you occupied and will show you the successful path.

Avoid the temptation to go live until one of your three variations begins to show good results, keep working at it.

 

[Dowser]

You need to be trading demo until you get your act together. FXCM allow multiple demos, you could trade different variations of your style, the discipline of doing that will keep you occupied and will show you the successful path.

Avoid the temptation to go live until one of your three variations begins to show good results, keep working at it.

Trading demo doesn't feed a gambling addiction though!