Quality rebuttal versus trading gurus such as James 16

B

Black Swan

0 0
I saw this a few weeks back, and given the recent *outings* and revelations and the continual emergence of new players attempting to fleece the retail trading community with the same tired well trodden method (Price Action off daily/weekly TFs), I thought it would be worth posting up in isolation. IMO the poster makes some very valid points and articulates them perfectly..

FWIW I started to get v.suspicious re the Jackos, James and PA guys when they continually voiced the ridiculous claim that anything below daily TFs was "noise", a suspicion that this post re-confirms.

Even this past week I've chuckled and raised an eyebrow (and blood pressure on occasion) at some of the tactics the long term (usual suspect) con men are using on, for example, the trading journals or forex discussion forums part of T2W..Anyhow, this is worth a read IMHO...

Right I'm gonna watch Kick Ass in HD followed by The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo..: No hidden message...honest..;)

*sigh*

I really have reservations partaking in this thread. This post is going to appear as fanning the flames, but it's not done with any ill motive behind it. It's purely my reaction to James' posts, which raise more red flags than I care to count.

Again, many parts of this post are going to come off sounding rather abrasive, and I apologize in advance for that, but my BS meter is frankly off the charts..

I am in no way whatsoever defending onlydragon's accusations, these are merely my own thoughts & questions formed from reading James' replies.



James, I address the following to you
:

Quote:
Originally Posted by james16
REMEMBER IVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 25 YEARS.
...
over the 30 years that ive been doing this.
...
ive been at this game for 25 years


So which is it? Over 30 years or 25? 5+ years is a lot of time to misplace..

Keeping in mind that retail FX has existed for little more than a decade, what is your prior experience? If you're so boastful about the number of years you've been "doing this", it would add a bit of credibility if you said what it is exactly you were previously "doing" (sorry, I'm just naturally skeptical, as well as curious)


Quote:
The James16 Group is not a business. Its a hobby.

I PAY OUT 5 FIGURES A MONTH TO TEACHERS WITHIN THE GROUP THAT KNOW MY MATERIAL.


You do realize the second sentence is a direct contradiction of the first sentence? You're paying out 5 figures/monthly to your teachers, it's clearly a business, not a hobby.

Another J16 member quoted 600+ active members. At $129/month, that's roughly $80k/month in revenue, just shy of a million a year. I don't know of any "hobbies" that are that profitable..

James, let's not beat around the bush, you are running a commercial business. There's absolutely no shame in admitting it, you should be proud of what of you've accomplished, but at least man up and admit it.



Quote:
I HATE BEING IN THIS STINKING ROT GUT PRISON CALLED THE COMMERCIAL FORUM.


As I previously stated, you are a commercial vendor. A commercial service is what you are selling. Your attempt to cast yourself as a white knight doing this out of the goodness of your heart is, I'm sorry, ridiculous.


Quote:
I WOULD PAY 5 FIGURES TO GET OUT IF IT WAS OFFERED.


Pay 5 figures to misconstrue the nature of your business, while at the same time, gain wider exposure on FF? I'm sure you would pay it in a heartbeat.. who in your shoes wouldn't?


Quote:
I enjoy the free thread a million times more than the paid group


Really? A million times more? But yes, free advertising is incredible, isn't it?


Quote:
MOST OF THE MONEY THE GROUP MAKES NEVER SEES MY POCKETS.


You must mean theoretically speaking, otherwise the IRS may be at odds with your revenue pass-thru arrangement..

Again, it comes off as if you're trying very hard to convince both your teachers and your clients that you're not profiting handsomely from your site. I seriously question that.

Quote:

My reputation is important to me not because of the group but because i grew up in a time when a reputation actually mattered to people.


Your reputation is important to you because you've turned it into a million dollar business. Congratulations, that's quite an accomplishment! No need to give us this humble helper/white knight story, I know it helps the bottom line profits (read - obvious mentoring sales tactic), but it's a bit overbearing.

Quote:
My wife is not happy at this point.


Considering the money your enterprise is making, she should be very happy. But then again, your family is not relevant to this discussion. We don't need to hear about your wife, or the tears running down your face while holding your child (upon reading the mean internet forum post someone wrote about you). I'm sorry, but seriously, do you see what I'm saying about "overbearing"? Your introduction of family to induce sympathy is, shall we say, unnecessary (and from a vendor/sales perspective, unprofessional).


Quote:
NOW I ASK YOU. Why would a successful person continue to put himself thru this and possibly his families safety IF THE GROUPS INCOME DOESNT MATTER.


I'm pretty sure $80k/month matters A LOT, and is entirely the reason you continue to do it. Any suggestion that it's a terrible burden to you or your family appears as yet another attempt to induce sympathy & create a false persona (for the sake of greater following/sales).

Quote:
I LOVE FOREX FACTORY, I LOVE MY FREE THREAD


I hate to say who often uttered roughly these exact same words (I think most can guess). But yes, we know why you love FF and the free thread, a million dollar baby is something to love indeed.

Quote:
IF I EVER START A LIVE TRADING ROOM (ITS LIKELY)


Sure why not, might as well keep on milking it..

James, I don't mean to come off sounding so critical, perhaps you do mean best. But the sympathy-inducing sob stories and white knight humble helper campaign just reek of shady, false-persona-building sales tactics.

It's obvious you run a highly profitable commercial mentoring service. It's not something to shy away from. As I said before, it's quite an accomplishment and something you should be proud of.

I've loosely perused your thread, many of the early posters there are long gone, likely victims of the unyielding 95%. Your encouragement of daily/weekly timeframes is quite smart, it extends the inevitable, yet encourages a lengthier subscription period (slower drain for them, more money for you). For those who aren't aware, this is quite common in the mentoring business (as is the communal praise amongst vendors, similar to communal praise amongst FF senior members, communal praise = communal credibility = greater following/sales).

I can't say for certain what, if any, long-term edge exists in trading pinbars & fibs (and the other aspects of your methods). I imagine you'd be running a hedge fund if the edge were that evident. But as long as you can keep selling the dream for $129/month, well I suppose the more power to you, but just try to be upfront and honest about it.


http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=254552&page=6
 
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squall321

Well-known member
488 106
Re: Quality rebutall versus trading gurus such as James 16

lol

i've said before, you get no love for calling out a scammer, it's a risk coz beforehand no one believes you anyway because of the "cult" effect - people invest so much emotionally in a guru, that even facts do not register.

sometimes you just see *SOMETHING IN PARTICULAR* heading full speed for the edge of a cliff, and its soooo obvious what's going to happen, but, personally i keep a silence and, when it goes tits up, get quiet satisfaction for steering clear of the thing

this brings up a point about a book i read recently about MLM, called Merchants of Deception. basically this legit couple get involved in amway and it snowballs, they get brainwashed and end up totally devoted to their mentors, they *literally* cannnot comprehend any word against them, even when plain facts are stated

here is the disturbing part, the people involved in the amway scam were v v powerful people, they had bribed FBI agents working for them, they had political figures in their organization, and at one point an amway guy actually KIDNAPS SOMEBODY'S CHILDREN AND MURDERS THEM SINCE THIS PERSON WAS THREATNING TO EXPOSE THE SCAM!!

how long until someone is murdered in the retail forex community over a scam?

i have a feeling it will happen, you get all sorts of people attracted to this industry, a lot of them unbalanced and emotionally unstable people, it is just more hassle than benefit to get involved IMHO
 

scose-no-doubt

Veteren member
4,630 954
Re: Quality rebutall versus trading gurus such as James 16

Just to fan the flames/troll a bit and basically be an all-round pr1ck for no good reason other lulz etc, I think it best to mention that I vaguely recollect that newly outed paid mentor Trader_Dante stated on several occasions that he learned everything he knows off of James16 and directed many people towards it.

:D

Also, I've actually sat and watched a 40min J16 video in it's entirety and although I'm still a p1ss poor trader and student I didn't find it even a little bit convincing. Personally I think a lot of sh1te spouted by him and well every forum I've visited regarding trading is a load of b0llox and I'm not even sure it is actual technical analysis.

Some people say they make money but as this is the internet we will never really know will we? c'est la vie d'net eh.
 
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rahrahrah

Newbie
9 0
Re: Quality rebutall versus trading gurus such as James 16

Simple facts.

James does not say anything under daily is noise, he even teaches 5 min trading, but advises to start on the higher tf.

James teaches for free, which is all one needs to succeed if they study carefully on his free thread.

James also has a paid site, which is very cool for many different reasons, of course you think its just a scam in there, so whatever.

There is plenty of successful traders because of him.

And noone is going to get killed over $129 for joining and not liking his PF,
on top of that, you can try out the free thread, if you don't like the free,
chances are you shouldn't join the pf.

There are the facts, take em or leave em.

Later
 

scose-no-doubt

Veteren member
4,630 954
Re: Quality rebutall versus trading gurus such as James 16

Does nobody else feel it's very strange how quickly people respond to negative posts about SB firms, mentors etc?

You'd think it was a full time job ;)
 

rahrahrah

Newbie
9 0
Re: Quality rebutall versus trading gurus such as James 16

Does nobody else feel it's very strange how quickly people respond to negative posts about SB firms, mentors etc?

You'd think it was a full time job ;)

What in my statement isn't true?

Anyone reading this, go see for yourself before you ditch james, if you struggling and want free help, goto his thread and learn for free, if you don't like it, move on.
 

rahrahrah

Newbie
9 0
Re: Quality rebutall versus trading gurus such as James 16

One more note for any new people that are reading this, James doesn't do managed accounts, so don't worry, the most you will lose is time at his free thread.
 

FX Bandit

Established member
530 95
Re: Quality rebutall versus trading gurus such as James 16

I've never seen the claim that anything below daily was noise - do you have a link?

There are some valid concerns with lower TFs, such as they encourage over-trading and require greater speed and discipline (which for most probably only come with experience).

That said, I personally don't like daily and above, although it's something I'm going to get around to learning at some point. Most of my trades are based off H1 and M15.
 

Jason101

Experienced member
1,372 215
Re: Quality rebutall versus trading gurus such as James 16

James does repeatedly say that there is no need to join the paid site as all the information is in the free thread. And that the paid site is just a little more condensed without the day to day noise of a public thread.

Does nobody else feel it's very strange how quickly people respond to negative posts about SB firms, mentors etc?

You'd think it was a full time job ;)

Has it ever crossed anyone’s mind that these defences are spurned by people who have found the free threads of some benefit.
 
B

Black Swan

0 0
Re: Quality rebutall versus trading gurus such as James 16

Sigh..:rolleyes:

Didn't take long eh? Welcome RarRah-Rasputin...

James does not say anything under daily is noise, he even teaches 5 min trading, but advises to start on the higher tf.

Hmm...you've missed the point, well actually you havn't, you're just attempting clumsy cult mind fook dissembling on behalf of your leaders...he/they/the gurus all promote daily/weekly, just watch how quickly a year tick-tocks by and you're at best break even, but are now happily sucked into the vortex of bu115hit..

James teaches for free, which is all one needs to succeed if they study carefully on his free thread.

No, the gurus use the *free threads* as an opportunity to hook the punters and forums such as FF and T2W are willing to help. It is only free for the fisherman and the gullible fish eagerly take the bait. There is always something better on offer if you pay, "Heh folks, the free thread is good, but why not join the real cult and its 600 members for 100 dollars a month..." We see it constantly on T2W also; gurus, educators, mentors, spivs use their threads to gain an initial foothold/audience whilst constantly mentioning their system, their [email protected] account, their other (subscription) site..

James also has a paid site, which is very cool for many different reasons, of course you think its just a scam in there, so whatever.

There is plenty of successful traders because of him.

Really? How many, do they have stats?,They are for the most part weak minded fools who simply feel very insecure doing something "new, complicated and *difficult*" without having their hands held..permanently in some cases.

And no-one is going to get killed over $129 for joining and not liking his PF, on top of that, you can try out the free thread, if you don't like the free,
chances are you shouldn't join the pf.


'Ang on a mo, you stated it was free? Yep, it's pin money, perfectly positioned marketing price action..;)

There are the facts, take em or leave em.

No, they're not facts, they're just a quickly assembled, childishly cobbled together bunch of thoughts..you're either defending gurus because you're on the pay roll or because you're in the gang of gullible..
 

rahrahrah

Newbie
9 0
Re: Quality rebutall versus trading gurus such as James 16

Facts are, James Teaches 5min trading all the way to Monthly trading.

Fact is you can learn everything you need to know from his free thread, like the above poster said, pf mainly gives it all in a more organised fashion.

These are facts.

So anyone new to trading go check out and learn for free, great stuff.
 

rahrahrah

Newbie
9 0
Re: Quality rebutall versus trading gurus such as James 16

For new people like I was once, what do you guys recommend to get a good head start in this biz, pls dont' tell me to use google or buy some books, I'm not a very smart guy, I like to be shown by human beings, peopel I can ask and get feedback from, is there anyone around that is not a scam in your eyes, if so, pls point me to them, I'd luv to add to my trading knowledge, and the new people coming here can also have options where to learn. And pls suggest solid leads.

Thanks
 

DionysusToast

Legendary member
5,963 1,501
Re: Quality rebutall versus trading gurus such as James 16

Does nobody else feel it's very strange how quickly people respond to negative posts about SB firms, mentors etc?

You'd think it was a full time job ;)

Exactly - always people with very few posts to their name too...
 

DionysusToast

Legendary member
5,963 1,501
Re: Quality rebutall versus trading gurus such as James 16

james teaches for free, which is all one needs to succeed if they study carefully on his free thread.

no, the gurus use the *free threads* as an opportunity to hook the punters and forums such as ff and t2w are willing to help. It is only free for the fisherman and the gullible fish eagerly take the bait. There is always something better on offer if you pay, "heh folks, the free thread is good, but why not join the real cult and its 600 members for 100 dollars a month..." we see it constantly on t2w also; gurus, educators, mentors, spivs use their threads to gain an initial foothold/audience whilst constantly mentioning their system, their [email protected] account, their other (subscription) site..

james also has a paid site, which is very cool for many different reasons, of course you think its just a scam in there, so whatever.

there is plenty of successful traders because of him.

really? How many, do they have stats?,they are for the most part weak minded fools who simply feel very insecure doing something "new, complicated and *difficult*" without having their hands held..permanently in some cases.

bingo !
 

DionysusToast

Legendary member
5,963 1,501
Re: Quality rebutall versus trading gurus such as James 16

Here's an interesting snippet, which is related....

Trader_Dante said:
N_Rothschild said:
you think the people who move a market care about pins lol..for every pin bar that has worked i bet there is about 20 that havnt.

I'm sure there are - that's why you never trade them in isolation.

At any rate, I don't use them myself so the argument is more or less redundant as far as I'm concerned.

Still, all lulz and banter aside for a moment: who do you think the people that move a market are?

So - Trader_Dante was taught by James16 and started the epic pin bar thread that people quote to this day and....

he doesn't use pin bars !

Still people on this forum are pointing people toward that thread and saying how great the techniques are... and I get called an idiot for not believing in this stuff :cry:

I guess it brings in punters.
 
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